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Old 07-04-2000, 11:24 AM   #26
Erik
Location: Bay Area
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Quote:
Keith wrote:
Yes, it does, but I think that's why it's important to keep it there. It brings up something in you and shows that it needs to be worked on. Leave it out and you leave out a tool for overcoming yourself.
I can buy into this actually, but is it a requirement? In my own experience this is a valid point and were that componenent not there I'd have missed much but is it necessary for everyone? Then again not everyone practices Aikido do they.

Personally, I believe Aikido cannot be only spiritual, nor can much of anything else, because the seperation of mind, body, and spirit is an illusion.

I'm personally not advocating a separation of the 3 rather my point was that perhaps the martial component gets in the way of things, possibly limiting a component of personal expression and growth.
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Old 07-04-2000, 11:25 AM   #27
Erik
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Quote:
Keith wrote:
Yes, it does, but I think that's why it's important to keep it there. It brings up something in you and shows that it needs to be worked on. Leave it out and you leave out a tool for overcoming yourself.
I can buy into this actually, but is it a requirement? In my own experience this is a valid point and were that componenent not there I'd have missed much but is it necessary for everyone? Then again not everyone practices Aikido do they.

Quote:
Personally, I believe Aikido cannot be only spiritual, nor can much of anything else, because the seperation of mind, body, and spirit is an illusion.
I'm personally not advocating a separation of the 3 rather my point was that perhaps the martial component gets in the way of things, possibly limiting a component of personal expression and growth.
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Old 07-04-2000, 11:50 AM   #28
Erik
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Quote:
AikiTom wrote:
The more you see, the better you should understand.
As many have said, some in this forum, in Aikido there is really only one technique - the more you see, watch, and bounce it around in your head, the more likely you are to understand the statement. And, then in the future sometime, you will actually view it as when in a jiyu waza series, you do a technique that feels exactly as an aikido technique should, and you suddenly realize, it's nothing you have a name for, or have done before. It was that one technique, one time, in one moment.
I actually think this is a beautiful post and the only part I disagree with is the better you should understand part. Sorry, but it only gets less clear as time goes on. Maybe one too many high falls?

Anyway a beautiful description of what I've felt semi-regularly on the basketball court and more rarely on the mat.
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Old 07-05-2000, 05:00 PM   #29
DJM
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Quote:
Erik wrote:
Quote:
AikiTom wrote:
The more you see, the better you should understand.
As many have said, some in this forum, in Aikido there is really only one technique - the more you see, watch, and bounce it around in your head, the more likely you are to understand the statement. And, then in the future sometime, you will actually view it as when in a jiyu waza series, you do a technique that feels exactly as an aikido technique should, and you suddenly realize, it's nothing you have a name for, or have done before. It was that one technique, one time, in one moment.
I actually think this is a beautiful post and the only part I disagree with is the better you should understand part. Sorry, but it only gets less clear as time goes on. Maybe one too many high falls?
Not at all (too many high falls!). Aikido is wonderful in that there are so many (an infinity perhaps?) of levels to every single technique. Each one viewed from a higher level of experience has so much more to teach that you can never fully 'understand' things.. Granted a 6th Dan not understanding Ikkyo is substantially different from a rank beginner not understanding. (At least so I would imagine ) - but as a percentage towards complete understanding there might not be as much between them..??
My 2p
Peace,
David

Sunset Shimmering,
On Water, Placid and Calm,
A Fish Touches Sky
--
David Marshall
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Old 07-05-2000, 05:33 PM   #30
akiy
 
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I'd say that a 6th dan has more questions regarding a technique or principle than does a 6th kyu. For every question that gets "answered," two more appear.

Perhaps as we progress, we begin to "know" more and "understand" less?

-- Jun

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Old 07-06-2000, 11:19 PM   #31
Nick
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First off, this post has gotten much bigger than I had thought...

Secondly, the above posts are correct in saying that mind, body, and spirit cannot be separated. However, it was either O-sensei or Tohei-sensei (or both) that said "To unify mind and body and become one with the universe is the ultimate purpose of my study." So, why bother to try separating mind and body, when we could instead unify them?

-Nick

---
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"Do not fall into the trap of the artisan who boasts twenty years of experience, when in fact he has had only one year of experience-- twenty times."
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Old 07-06-2000, 11:28 PM   #32
Erik
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Quote:
Nick wrote:
First off, this post has gotten much bigger than I had thought...

-Nick
Which is why we must help Jun unify the spirit of the computer, the mind of a coder and the body of a man into getting these things to nest.
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Old 07-07-2000, 05:59 AM   #33
Pete
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Nick said :

So, why bother to try separating mind and body, when we could instead unify them?
-----------------

The mind and the body are 'one' naturally aren't they? For without the mind the body would surely die!

Pete
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Old 07-09-2000, 07:44 PM   #34
Nick
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Exactly. Without the mind the body would surely die, and without the body the mind would surely die. What happens to the spirit afterwards depends on your faith, and I don't want to start a religion debate, so I will stop there.

-Nick

---
Nick Porter
"Do not fall into the trap of the artisan who boasts twenty years of experience, when in fact he has had only one year of experience-- twenty times."
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