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Old 05-06-2005, 05:15 PM   #1
Aragorn
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Question techniquies in street fights

would Shomenuchi Eacheo irimi work in a street fight? Would the attacker attack shomenuchi? Or would he just punch or kick? Or would this happen to you ? seeing as im a yellow belt please excuse my stupid\ignorant questions
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Old 05-06-2005, 06:30 PM   #2
ChrisHein
 
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Re: techniquies in street fights

It's cool, lots of people are still asking this question after years and years of training. My recommendation is to go somewhere where they actually hit each other, not a school where they pretend to hit each other, but a boxing school, or a muay Thai school, something like this and practice your techniques. Find out what happens, then you can come back and tell all of us. If you stay there long enuff, you'll prolly learn Aikido better then most.

-Chris Hein
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Old 05-06-2005, 07:02 PM   #3
James Davis
 
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Re: techniquies in street fights

Whether someone would attack with shomen uchi probably depends on what they have in their hand. If they have a knife, probably not, but what if the weapon they're wielding is a beer bottle? It happens sometimes. In my humble opinion, the best thing you can practice to prepare for a tussle is AWARENESS. Look around. A lot of fights start with a sucker punch. Don't decide ahead of time what techniques you'll use. Just react to what the attacker gives you. Take care!
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Old 05-06-2005, 07:04 PM   #4
Ketsan
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Re: techniquies in street fights

You could face any technique from any martial art plus anything that naturally comes to people when they're being violent.
There's lots of people that will say that you wont fight a martial artist because we as a group don't start fights and that therefore you don't need to worry about anything other than punches. Out on the street, where everyones sober, maybe. In a bar or a club at 2 am after a good nights drinking they're as likely as anyone to kick off.

So I say you could face anything.
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Old 05-06-2005, 11:19 PM   #5
ChrisHein
 
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Re: techniquies in street fights

"There's lots of people that will say that you wont fight a martial artist because we as a group don't start fights and that therefore you don't need to worry about anything other than punches. Out on the street, where everyones sober, maybe. In a bar or a club at 2 am after a good nights drinking they're as likely as anyone to kick off.

So I say you could face anything."

Thats a nice post!

-Chris Hein
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Old 05-07-2005, 12:42 AM   #6
CNYMike
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Re: techniquies in street fights

Quote:
Liam Smith wrote:
would Shomenuchi Eacheo irimi work in a street fight? Would the attacker attack shomenuchi? Or would he just punch or kick? Or would this happen to you ? seeing as im a yellow belt please excuse my stupid\ignorant questions
Would someone come at you with shomenuchi? I doubt it. But shomenuchi ikkyo is one of the first things you learn, so it's a good bet there are a lot of important ideas wound up in it, epscially when I pay attention to how it feels as uke. These ideas should be found in other techniques.

As to whether ikkyo itself would really work -- I'm the wrong person to ask; I don't know. But if someone swears by it, I'm not going to call that person a liar.
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Old 05-07-2005, 08:13 AM   #7
Aragorn
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Re: techniquies in street fights

Thanks for all your replies!

Regards,
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Old 05-07-2005, 09:21 AM   #8
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Re: techniquies in street fights

IMHO, the question isn't if a technique is effective in the street, but are you.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 05-07-2005, 09:33 AM   #9
Barrett Condy
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Re: techniquies in street fights

Shomenuchi contains fundamental elemements of a type of attack (i.e. straightforward, commited and targeted at the head). Like many of the stylized attacks in Aikido, I think we train in it to become familiar with how react to that type of attack rather than one specific attack.

Ikkyo is an effective technique, but it also contains elements of defense that can be used seperately from the actual technique (i.e. entering strong, cutting with the hands rather than grabbing, and proper maai and timing).

I think Aikido is unique because of its levels of complexity, versus straightforward attack and defense techniques. It teaches us, through method repetition, to be better people, both in our self defense, and in our personalities. By learning to be brave in the face of danger and adversity and seeing an attack as an opportunity for action (things I've been told Ikkyo teaches) you might never even have to get in a streetfight, and that's more important that winning one, I think.
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Old 05-07-2005, 10:08 AM   #10
CNYMike
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Re: techniquies in street fights

Quote:
Liam Smith wrote:
Thanks for all your replies!

Regards,
You're welcome; hope it helped.
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Old 05-07-2005, 10:41 AM   #11
Aragorn
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Re: techniquies in street fights

It really did help.
I was kinda curious and now i got a good answers! Thanks for answers!




Regards,
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Old 05-07-2005, 10:55 AM   #12
Brian Vickery
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Thumbs down Re: techniquies in street fights

Quote:
Lynn Seiser wrote:
IMHO, the question isn't if a technique is effective in the street, but are you.
...I second this response! ...great answer Lynn!

Brian Vickery

"The highest level of technique to achieve is that of having NO technique!"
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Old 05-07-2005, 12:06 PM   #13
Ketsan
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Re: techniquies in street fights

Quote:
Lynn Seiser wrote:
IMHO, the question isn't if a technique is effective in the street, but are you.
Question. Are you more effective before or after learning the technique?
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Old 05-07-2005, 01:01 PM   #14
ChrisHein
 
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Re: techniquies in street fights

"Question. Are you more effective before or after learning the technique?"

If you took two identical twins and one trainded it and the other nothing would there be a differance.

-Chris Hein
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Old 05-07-2005, 04:06 PM   #15
Ketsan
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Re: techniquies in street fights

Quote:
Chris Hein wrote:
"Question. Are you more effective before or after learning the technique?"

If you took two identical twins and one trainded it and the other nothing would there be a differance.

-Chris Hein
And the difference would be the techniques?

I don't understand how you can seperate yourself from your knowlege, experience and skills. To my mind if a properly learned technique is executed properly it should work if it's to be called effective. If it doesn't work blaming the individual seems a little odd.

Last edited by Ketsan : 05-07-2005 at 04:14 PM.
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Old 05-07-2005, 04:47 PM   #16
Aragorn
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Re: techniquies in street fights

once it has been provin' by a couple of different levels of experienced people, you will be able to prove that it IS the individuals fault!!!

Regards,
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Old 05-07-2005, 05:28 PM   #17
CNYMike
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Re: techniquies in street fights

Quote:
Alex Lawrence wrote:
And the difference would be the techniques?

I don't understand how you can seperate yourself from your knowlege, experience and skills. To my mind if a properly learned technique is executed properly it should work if it's to be called effective. If it doesn't work blaming the individual seems a little odd.
True, but the point is one of the twins would do the training and the other would not. That's the difference.
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Old 05-07-2005, 06:58 PM   #18
Ketsan
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Re: techniquies in street fights

Quote:
Michael Gallagher wrote:
True, but the point is one of the twins would do the training and the other would not. That's the difference.
Yeah but the point is if the trained twin has been taught to Samba thinking it's a martial art, he's going to hospital. His bro, relying on his raw fighting skills might just, however, walk out of there.
It's the quality of the techniques you're using combined with being good at them, not just the fact that you're good at them so if your techniques are pants so are you.

Last edited by Ketsan : 05-07-2005 at 07:02 PM.
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Old 05-07-2005, 08:56 PM   #19
CNYMike
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Re: techniquies in street fights

Quote:
Alex Lawrence wrote:
Yeah but the point is if the trained twin has been taught to Samba thinking it's a martial art, he's going to hospital......
Myabe, but we're not talking about someone being taught to Samba thinking it was a martial art, we're talking about someone being taught a martial art.
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Old 05-07-2005, 10:16 PM   #20
justinc
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Re: techniquies in street fights

I was wandering through a side alley on my way to the ATM during the middle of the day in a far northern NSW (Oz) town called Lismore a couple of months back. Not quite sure what was going on, but one guy hassling another in front of crowd of people seated outside a cafe - the receiver looking more like a street drunk than not. After much provoking, the reciever finally took a swing at the provoker in pretty much a perfect Yokomen strike, complete with some sort of glass bottle in hand. I'll leave the rest to your imagination, suffice to say that the provoker then proved that he was one of those people that should never have received martial arts training in the first place.

The basic point is that the attacks used in Aikido are reflected in what one could expect in the real world.

Justin Couch
Student of life.
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Old 05-10-2005, 05:02 AM   #21
Nick Simpson
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Re: techniquies in street fights

In the ' real world' you could expect to expect the unexpected, an attacker could and probably would attack in any way. Grabbing before punching is common, as is bottling etc etc. it depends on the situation, environment and the aggressor.

It is pretty doubtful someone would attack you with a perfect shomen uchi, but that is not to say that shomen uchi is a weak strike. I myself have broken someones nose with this strike (not something im proud of btw) and i've also seen another aikidoka's nose get broken with shomen uchi. If delivered correctly it can be a very poweful strike, the knife edge of the hand is particularly suited to striking (see armed and special forces hand to hand techniques) and is less likely to result in the striker getting hurt e.g. a broken knuckle, fingers or lacerations.

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
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Old 05-10-2005, 07:33 AM   #22
ian
 
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Re: techniquies in street fights

Another importance of shomen uchi is that the elbow is low - often making it difficult to do such techniques as ikkyo, if the cut has been completed. Thus it is useful to practise this attack (many wuchi people would do vertical punches and also keep the elbows low).

I think aikido is good at dealing with sudden lunging type attacks or any type of grabs - although it has applications in sparring, I think it can be difficult to use in sparring. It is useful to learn how to strike as well, so that, if people hold back too much in their attacks, you can strike (even you need to?!)

Ian

---understanding aikido is understanding the training method---
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Old 05-10-2005, 07:35 AM   #23
ian
 
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Re: techniquies in street fights

PS my favourite strike would be yokomen uchi to the neck - far more effective and versatile than any punch.

---understanding aikido is understanding the training method---
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Old 05-10-2005, 08:10 AM   #24
Nick Simpson
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Re: techniquies in street fights

MMM, yokomen to the neck is nice. Lots of vital areas and arteries to mess with...

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
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Old 05-10-2005, 09:12 AM   #25
jxa127
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Re: techniquies in street fights

Hi all,

I read a report a fews years back where somebody compiled a list of knife attacks and ran a statistical analysis on the circumstances. The most common attack, by far, was an overhead strick (ice pick attack). The most common target/wound area was the back of the neck.

Two things struck me about this study (if you'll pardon the pun): (1) the overhead attack is a lot like shomen uchi, and (2) never turn your back on somebody with a knife!

Regards,

----
-Drew Ames
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