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Old 05-06-2005, 07:01 AM   #26
rob_liberti
Dojo: Shobu Aikido of Connecticut
Location: East Haven, CT
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,402
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Re: Blocking your partner

I mostly agree with you Charles. I find it it increasingly difficult to continue to attack with full mind and body and not be so solid that I cannot react to nage while at the same time not flying away too easily.

In Japan, I could see not moving at all if the person isn't compeling you to move. It hasn't been my experience for that kind of thing to work out too well in the States. I think it has lot to do with the amount of shaming that does on in Western parenting. (For example: "Little Johny doesn't share well..." Well, maybe that's becuase little Johny is 1 years old and cannot possibly comprehend the idea of sharing and all little Johny can possibly comprehend is that mommy and daddy think he's bad... These kids grow up and go to aikido class in the States. I feel that it is important for us to consider what the student's main obstacles will be in learning, especially when teaching by means failure.)

Rob
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Old 05-06-2005, 07:37 PM   #27
Charles Hill
Dojo: Numazu Aikikai/Aikikai Honbu Dojo
Location: Three Lakes WI/ Mishima Japan
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 837
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Re: Blocking your partner

Hi Rob,

By "not moving" I meant as nage, the one being attacked. For example, more often than not, after I move in for iriminage, my partner stops moving and is waiting for me to "do the technique." I trained for a fairly long period of time with Endo and Yasuno Shihan so I think with your background with Gleason Sensei we both understand that movement should never stop, especially the one doing the attacking. (It was interesting to me that those who stopped moving while attacking Endo Shihan would get soft touches to the face while those who did it to Yasuno Shihan often got hurt.)

I really like your post on resistance, the kind I think of as salt water taffy ukemi. Uke moves in a smooth, but heavy way, developing in both uke and nage what Endo Shihan has called "aiki-heavy." To out and out block one`s partner requires one (in my opinion) to take ultimate responsibility that the person you block learns something from it eventually and is not just frustrated. Most people who block don`t seem to do this, so it ends up just an ego thing.

Here is my blocking story: a number of years ago during Yasuno Shihan`s class at Honbu, a friend of mine from CA paired up with an older gentleman. This gentleman blocked my friend right and left and was not really attacking. My friend naturally got a bit perturbed, and although I`m not a lip reader it was obvious he was mouthing "stupid old man" over and over. He also started to realize that those of us around him were watching out of the corners of our eyes and laughing. After class I took him aside and explained that his partner had been Tamura Shihan, visiting from France!

Charles
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Old 05-06-2005, 09:50 PM   #28
rob_liberti
Dojo: Shobu Aikido of Connecticut
Location: East Haven, CT
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Re: Blocking your partner

Great story!!!

This is not a blocking story but the best story I have about a suprise like that was Donna Winslow sensei (yondan) went to a seminar and saw a nice lady sitting on the mat stretching. Donna asked her if she would like to work out a little bit before class to warm up. It was Mary Heiny sensei (rokudan) and she wiped the floor with poor Donna. Oh boy!

Charles, I really need to get together with you and train someday.

Rob
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Old 05-07-2005, 11:29 PM   #29
Charles Hill
Dojo: Numazu Aikikai/Aikikai Honbu Dojo
Location: Three Lakes WI/ Mishima Japan
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Re: Blocking your partner

Rob,

Your pm is full and I couldn`t send a message. Anyway, I am interested in training with Gleason Sensei someday. Hopefully we can meet up then.
Charles
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Old 05-08-2005, 07:22 AM   #30
Pauliina Lievonen
 
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Dojo: Jiki Shin Kan Utrecht
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Re: Blocking your partner

Quote:
Charles Hill wrote:
I really like your post on resistance, the kind I think of as salt water taffy ukemi. Uke moves in a smooth, but heavy way, developing in both uke and nage what Endo Shihan has called "aiki-heavy."
I'm learning to take as light ukemi as possible, ideally so light that I can take over tori's technique and they won't feel it before it's too late. (Hey I said ideally ) So there seem to be at least two schools of thought on ukemi. I'm curious about the differences this produces in the practitioners of both in the long run? Has any of you had experience with both?

As contradictory as it sounds, my experience is that letting myself be in a way completely vulnerable as uke lets me become very sensitive to what tori is doing. I don't mean throwing myself or purposefully putting myself in a bad position by myself but allowing the technique to happen without trying to dissipate its energy in some way. I've trained with some people (not many though, so my experience there is limited) who took "viscous" ukemi, that made me wonder if they didn't at the same time protect themselves from experiencing a throw fully so to say.

What do you all think?

kvaak
Pauliina
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Old 05-08-2005, 05:55 PM   #31
Huker
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Canada
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Re: Blocking your partner

From what I understand, it is incorrect for uke to resist. It is uke's job to receive the imbalance of the technique to have his/her balance taken. It is shite's/nage's/tori's job to take that balance from them. The original word was "shiteuke" due to the above reason.

A resistant uke is not only detrimental to shite, but also to themselves. It is completely understandable that an instructor wouldn't want an uke (below 3rd dan, or whichtever decided rank) to resist/block since that uke's learning is not yet finished. They are not done learning about imbalance. Once a certain level of understanding of imbalance has been achieved (say, at 3rd dan) then they can resist.
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Old 05-08-2005, 07:37 PM   #32
Takuan
Dojo: Circulo de Aikido
Location: rio de janeiro
Join Date: May 2005
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Brazil
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Re: Blocking your partner

When I mentioned Saito Sensei I was mentioning blocking not resisting. The difference is that by resisting you can still receive the technique from your partner, you just make him work out a little harder; also with an advanced practicioner you're showing him you are quite present and that you won't just yield to the slightest bit of pressure. I also think you should have a solid ukemi before attempting this since you do not know how strong after resisting a little the technique may become. I will resist in this manner when my Sensei calls me to display a technique before the class, he expects this from me.

Another thing entirely is blocking. By blocking IMO, you are disrupting the flow of the technique and disturbing the harmony of the movement. That's the way I interpret Saito Sensei's message in the seminar I saw him speak. Anybody can simply block a technique and not allow it to happen, and to me that is not what Aikido is about. I think that if what O Sensei determined in Iwama way back when was still obeyed around the globe it would not have allowed Charles friend's story to happen. He would have known Tamura Sensei was a heavyweight, that his technique was probably wrong and that that was why he was being blocked!

Last edited by Takuan : 05-08-2005 at 07:40 PM.
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Old 05-09-2005, 09:36 PM   #33
Kevin Temple
Dojo: Jinbukan
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Canada
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Re: Blocking your partner

i think the big problem with resisting is that, in my experiences, when trying to practice a specific technique, resistance by uke can result in a situation unfavourable for the technique and in which a different technique is appropriate. Thats fine for out on the street, but in the dojo when you are working on one technique it hinders the learning process. To be honest, I learned this lesson because once in class when i was a month or two into my training i was resisting a technique and my partner showed me that I should just go with the technique, he showed me an alternate (and coincidentally more painful) technique that would be applied in the situation that i was providing. The moral of the story is... resistance is futile
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Old 05-10-2005, 12:07 AM   #34
Bronson
 
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Dojo: Seiwa Dojo and Southside Dojo
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Re: Blocking your partner

Quote:
Kevin Temple wrote:
...my partner showed me that I should just go with the technique
My focus lately has been in making sure uke gives the proper attack for what we're practicing. Then nage gets to practice going with the attack instead of uke practicing to go with the technique.

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
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