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Old 04-15-2005, 07:59 AM   #1
Hardware
 
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Crosstraining Techniques

I want to improve my overall fitness level for Aikido.

My understanding is that Aikido is essentially anaerobic so training to make fitness gains should be geared towards that.

I've been doing wind sprints in conjunction with my other fitness training (push-ups, crunches, stationary cycling, swimming and fast wakling).

Any other suggestions for training methods?
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Old 04-15-2005, 08:20 AM   #2
captain
 
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Re: Crosstraining Techniques

Hi,

try the website below, has some great material on GPP and excellent links to other pages. workouts look easy but are quite demanding!

www.crossfit.com


David
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Old 04-15-2005, 08:22 AM   #3
Dazzler
Dojo: Templegate Dojo, bristol & Bristol North Aikido Dojo
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Re: Crosstraining Techniques

eeer....whats a wind sprint?
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Old 04-15-2005, 08:38 AM   #4
grondahl
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Re: Crosstraining Techniques

Train aerobic exercises as the base of your fitness-regime. Anaerobic exercises is just the tip of the iceberg so to speak. Even sprinters do alot of distance.....

Plus that anaerobic-training wears off fast, those that compete sports that demand high anaerobic performance usually train mostly anaerobic just before competitions.

But it´s always good to squeeze in a little HIIT -training once in a while

A quick google came up with:

http://www.youronlinefitness.com/Fit...l_training.htm.
http://www.exrx.net/FatLoss/HIITvsET.html
http://www.oxygenmag.net/showthread.php?t=3365
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Old 04-15-2005, 09:05 AM   #5
paw
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Re: Crosstraining Techniques

Quote:
Howard Dyke wrote:
I want to improve my overall fitness level for Aikido.
As I see it, you have 4 choices, and I'll list them in order of "best" to "worse". The "for aikido" is the key that I'm focusing on. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any physical activity that wouldn't be worth doing, insofar as if it would aid general health it would therefore be beneficial for aikido (can't train when you're hurt/injuried or sick, right?) So the "worse" program is still of great value.....Anyhoo,

1. A specific routine that has been designed specifically for aikido. Unfortunately, to the best of my knowledge, such a routine doesn't exist. So you could create one. You'd have to identify the specific physical demands of aikido (energy pathways ....aerobic vs anaerobic, "prime movers", flexibility demands, etc....) determine the best way to train those demands and so on and so forth.

2. A well-studied activity that is similar to aikido. Here, you're in luck. Both judo and wrestling are similar to aikido and there is a good number of scientific studies on effective training methods for both. (For example, The Sport Science of Elite Judo Athletes by Wayland J. Pulkkinen)

3. A general holistic conditioning routine. By this I mean a routine that works strength, flexibility, aerobic, anaerobic, muscular endurance, power, altogether. Personally, this is the approach I use, and I current follow the crossfit site that has been previously mentioned. There's also Scrapper's (bodyweight exercises) and I think Jo has mentioned a series of instructional video by The Firm that sounded excellent.

4. A segmented general conditioning routine. This is by far the most common approach (ie weights on Monday and Wednesday, "cardio" on Tuesday, Thursday and Friday). This is definately better than nothing, but it tends to be time consuming, and there are issues with completeness (need to improve flexibility, so add yoga....need to improve anerobic capacity, add sprints, etc...)

But as I mentioned before, anything is better than nothing, and there's no sense in doing something you don't enjoy.

Regards,

Paul
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Old 04-15-2005, 04:41 PM   #6
giriasis
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Re: Crosstraining Techniques

Quote:
I think Jo has mentioned a series of instructional video by The Firm that sounded excellent.
Thanks for remembering the Firm. ... But it's Anne Marie

Anne Marie Giri
Women in Aikido: a place where us gals can come together and chat about aikido.
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Old 04-15-2005, 05:56 PM   #7
paw
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Re: Crosstraining Techniques

Quote:
Anne Marie Giri wrote:
Thanks for remembering the Firm. ... But it's Anne Marie
Anne, I am sooooo sorry. I humbly beg your forgiveness.

Paul
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Old 04-15-2005, 07:39 PM   #8
giriasis
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Re: Crosstraining Techniques

Quote:
Paul Watt wrote:
Anne, I am sooooo sorry. I humbly beg your forgiveness.

Paul
Only if you bow down and kiss my feet first...then I'll consider forgiveness.

Anne Marie Giri
Women in Aikido: a place where us gals can come together and chat about aikido.
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Old 04-16-2005, 02:13 AM   #9
xuzen
 
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Re: Crosstraining Techniques

Quote:
Howard Dyke wrote:
I want to improve my overall fitness level for Aikido.

My understanding is that Aikido is essentially anaerobic so training to make fitness gains should be geared towards that.

...<snip>...
Dear Howard,

I too have the same desire as you. Currently my regime is as such:-

1) 3 X per week of aikido class 90 mins sometimes extend to 120 mins for after class ogi techs.

2) First 20 mins of class consist of light running on the spot or jumping (5 mins), ukemi x 50 reps (front, back, side, rolls and flips) kihon waza (10 mins),

3) 5 mins of light stretching (wrist, hamstring, Achilles, triceps, neck etc)

4) Class proper start

5) Bokken/Jo suburi (100 reps on each arm) after class strength exercise.

6) Seiza zazen (5 mins)

On those days that I don't exercise, I try to watch my diet, carbohydrate to a minimum (none after 7pm). As for protein, I am not so particular, as long as it not prepared with excessive oil. As for fat, I try to avoid, if I am unable to avoid oily food as during eating out, I will pop a Xenical(TM) capsule i.e., a prescription drug that blocks fat absorption from food.

On weekends, where we have a family tradition off eating out, I will drink a whole glass of high fiber drink (e.g. Fybogel(TM) i.e., isphahula husk prep) which actually promote satiety without adding to caloric count and hence prevents me from overeating on such occasion.

I know many people will talk to you wrt the physical aspect when wanting to improve fitness, I thought of sharing some practical tips on the non-physical aspect of keeping fit.

Cheers,

Boon.

SHOMEN-ATE (TM), the solution to 90% of aikido and life's problems.
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Old 04-16-2005, 09:06 PM   #10
son mai
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Re: Crosstraining Techniques

Does anyone know what are shootfighting squats?
Thanks
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Old 04-17-2005, 11:38 PM   #11
Hardware
 
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Re: Crosstraining Techniques

Quote:
Daren Sims wrote:
eeer....whats a wind sprint?
Short distance (100 metres or less) sprints, done at full sprint pace, (i.e. running as fast as possible). At least that's what I mean by them.

Depending on training location, I'll either do ten 100 metre sprints with 1 min in between each; or mark off 20 metres and do a "shuttle run" - sprinting back and forth over the 20 m distance for 10 - pause 1 minute and go again - for a total of 10 "sets".

Lately I've started sprinting up the vehicle ramp that leads to our underground garage - that's about 30 metres.
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Old 04-18-2005, 07:44 AM   #12
paw
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Re: Crosstraining Techniques

Quote:
Son Mai wrote:
Does anyone know what are shootfighting squats?
Unless I'm mistaken that's what Scrapper calls "hindu squats".

From http://www.stadion.com/column_stretch22.html

Hindu squat. Start standing up, back straight, head up, chest up, feet hip-width apart. Feet point forward or slightly out—whatever feels good on the knees. Reach forward with your arms and then pull back as in a rowing motion until your fists are even with your chest. As you pull your arms back, inhale. Start to exhale and squat down letting your arms fall behind your hips. As you squat your heels raise off the floor so you are squatting on the balls of your feet. Squat as low as you can but do not bounce at the bottom. Rise up, simultaneously reaching forward with your arms as you inhale. The breathing pattern is opposite that of standard squats (without those rowing arm movements) and squats with weights. Throughout the whole squat keep your back straight. Repeat the cycle.


Regards,

Paul
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Old 04-18-2005, 07:45 AM   #13
paw
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Re: Crosstraining Techniques

Quote:
Anne Marie Giri wrote:
Only if you bow down and kiss my feet first...then I'll consider forgiveness.
Sounds reasonable.

Deeply humble ---- bowing and kissing ---,

Paul
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Old 04-18-2005, 11:49 PM   #14
CNYMike
Dojo: Finger Lakes Aikido
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Re: Crosstraining Techniques

Quote:
Howard Dyke wrote:
....My understanding is that Aikido is essentially anaerobic ....
It is?

The sweat I've worked up in each class -- and I get more of a workout in Aikido than in anything else or on my own -- indicates otherwsie. Or so I'd thought.
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Old 04-19-2005, 05:38 AM   #15
paw
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Re: Crosstraining Techniques

Quote:
Michael Gallagher wrote:
The sweat I've worked up in each class -- and I get more of a workout in Aikido than in anything else or on my own -- indicates otherwsie.
From UI healthcare

The term "anaerobic" means "without air" or "without oxygen." Anaerobic exercise uses muscles at high intensity and a high rate of work for a short period of time. Anaerobic exercise helps us increase our muscle strength and stay ready for quick bursts of speed. Think of short and fast when you think of anaerobic exercise.
...

Aerobic exercise, on the other hand, includes lower intensity activities performed for longer periods of time. Activities like walking, jogging, swimming, and cycling require a great deal of oxygen to make the energy needed for prolonged exercise.



Howard presumes, that aikido simply doesn't last long enough for an individual to enter an aerobic state, and chances are he's right. (Keep in mind that if you aren't actively moving, you're resting).


Regards,

Paul
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Old 04-22-2005, 08:42 AM   #16
son mai
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Re: Crosstraining Techniques

[quote=Paul Watt]Unless I'm mistaken that's what Scrapper calls "hindu squats".

From http://www.stadion.com/column_stretch22.html

Thank you for the information. I appreciate it.

Regards,
Son
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Old 05-04-2005, 04:51 PM   #17
theflyingheadbuttsuplex
Dojo: Aikido Institute Davis
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Re: Crosstraining Techniques

Does anyone know if isometrics (dynamic tension) are good for aikido??
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Old 05-06-2005, 11:17 PM   #18
Nathan Gusdorf
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Re: Crosstraining Techniques

Quote:
Howard presumes, that aikido simply doesn't last long enough for an individual to enter an aerobic state, and chances are he's right. (Keep in mind that if you aren't actively moving, you're resting).
Aerobic vs anaerobic has to do with the way that your cells obtain energy. (Ill try not to get too technical here) If you are using a short, quick burst of energy you cannot get anough oxygen to procude as many ATP molecules as are needed so your body so basically recycles an energy carrying molecule and as a byproduct produce lactic acid. Since Aikido (or at least where I train) does not involve a lot of physical strength or short quick bursts of energy, your body is able to get a constant stream of oxygen and work aerobically. When it is hard, it is aerobic because it is a fairly light application of strength for a more extended period of time. If you want to increase your aerobic ability then things mentioned above are necessary such as running and swimming. Cross country running is good for this kind of conditioning.
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Old 05-08-2005, 05:25 PM   #19
DustinAcuff
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Re: Crosstraining Techniques

just to toss out some general conditioning that my sensei recommends for the aiki arts:

1. no free weights/machines- they damage the joints, tendons, ligaments, and when not done properly shorten the muscle and result in tightness that prevents one from being soft (almost no one listens to this part)

2. push-ups, sit-ups, pull-ups (behind the neck preferable)

3. anything on or related to the swiss ball

4. jogging/running

while this isnt for everyone, it is what sensei has used for the last 35 years of his live, and since he is ripped, i guess it works. just what he said and recommends, all forms of health science aside.

I also tend to agree with Nathan, aikido should be aerobic....BJJ is more of an anaerobic workout
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Old 05-08-2005, 06:12 PM   #20
Nathan Gusdorf
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Re: Crosstraining Techniques

Dustin-

Swimming is also very good for aerobic conditioning. Great point about weights- with lesser amounts of weight it might be beneficial but if you have too much muscle it would probably impair your ability to blend and implement soft relaxed techniques. A lot of the people in my dojo are not in great shape, however this does not inhibit their aikido ability. While I personally value being in shape as a health issue, it does not seem to affect aikido as it would karate or tae kwon do for instance.
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Old 05-09-2005, 06:59 AM   #21
paw
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Re: Crosstraining Techniques

Again, any sensible fitness routine is better than nothing, but once we start taking about fitness in relationship to aikido.....

Quote:
Dustin Acuff wrote:
1. no free weights/machines- they damage the joints, tendons, ligaments, and when not done properly shorten the muscle and result in tightness that prevents one from being soft (almost no one listens to this part)
Anything done improperly can be harmful. Having said that, studies have shown that Olympic weightlifters have fantastic flexibility and strength, and those athletes use free weights extensively. It's not the type of resistance (free weight/body weight/machine/sandbag/etc....) but rather the range of motion that determines flexibility.

Quote:
Dustin Acuff wrote:
2. push-ups, sit-ups, pull-ups (behind the neck preferable)
Nothing wrong with bodyweight exercises, although that's a really limited list that doesn't address the lower body at all. SCRAPPER has a more extensive list.


Quote:
Dustin Acuff wrote:
3. anything on or related to the swiss ball
A swiss ball is a good piece of equipment, but it's not the "end all be all" of fitness. It just adds instability, which may be beneficial to a particular exercise....then again, it may not be. It's a tool, like any other.

Quote:
Dustin Acuff wrote:
4. jogging/running
As I mentioned in my first post, if we are talking about fitness FOR aikido, one would have to indentify the energy pathways of aikido and show that jogging/running (two significantly different movements, btw...) correctly work the same engery pathways in a way that transfers over to improved aikido performance.

If the idea is that aikido is aerobic (which isn't a given) and jogging benefits aerobic capacity, it's still a bit stretch to presume that jogging will develop aerobic capacity for aikido. Further, research on High Intestity Interval Training (HIIT) has shown to develop aerobic and anaerobic capacity better than long, slow distance/duration (LSD) training like jogging.


Quote:
Dustin Acuff wrote:
while this isnt for everyone, it is what sensei has used for the last 35 years of his live, and since he is ripped, i guess it works.
Being "ripped" is having low body-fat, generally due to good genetics and diet. It's not an indication of any level of athletic ability...no offense intended.


Regards,

Paul
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Old 05-09-2005, 07:05 AM   #22
paw
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Re: Crosstraining Techniques

Quote:
Nathan Gusdorf wrote:
Great point about weights- with lesser amounts of weight it might be beneficial but if you have too much muscle it would probably impair your ability to blend and implement soft relaxed techniques.
Great amounts of muscle = inflexibility or the ability to blend is simply untrue. Siff addresses this in "Facts and Falacies of Fitness". But a examination of gymnasts or Olympic weightlifters should also put this to rest. Both groups of athletes are very, very muscular...and both are functionally flexible.

Regards,

Paul
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Old 05-09-2005, 07:42 AM   #23
SeiserL
 
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Re: Crosstraining Techniques

IMHO, this is more a fitness than a cross training question since it doesn't address a different syle of martial art.

But, skip rope. Excellent for footwork, winds, timing, etc., ...

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 05-10-2005, 01:14 AM   #24
samurai_kenshin
 
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Re: Crosstraining Techniques

I'm not gonna do much else because if I lose any more weight, I'll fly away!

Good judgment comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgment.
-Barry LePatner
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Old 05-15-2005, 01:50 PM   #25
theflyingheadbuttsuplex
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Ai symbol Re: Crosstraining Techniques

Quote:
James Matarrese wrote:
I'm not gonna do much else because if I lose any more weight, I'll fly away!
There's where you and I are different!!!

If there is no wind, row!
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