Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Spiritual

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-20-2005, 11:15 AM   #51
rob_liberti
Dojo: Shobu Aikido of Connecticut
Location: East Haven, CT
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,402
United_States
Offline
Re: Basic elements of Aikido

I would have thought they existed in early human intuition regardless of location or copyright.

Rob
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2005, 01:00 PM   #52
Kevin Leavitt
 
Kevin Leavitt's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia
Location: Stuttgart, Baden Wurttemberg
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,376
Germany
Offline
Re: Basic elements of Aikido

Yea cavemen probably figured out they could make sounds that resonated and harmonized for sure. Certainly they did not understand it explicitly, but certainly they intuitively did.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2005, 01:24 PM   #53
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
Offline
Re: Basic elements of Aikido

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote:
Yea cavemen probably figured out they could make sounds that resonated and harmonized for sure. Certainly they did not understand it explicitly, but certainly they intuitively did.
And you have some support for this certainty of what went on in caveman times?

Mike
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2005, 01:31 PM   #54
rob_liberti
Dojo: Shobu Aikido of Connecticut
Location: East Haven, CT
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,402
United_States
Offline
Re: Basic elements of Aikido

Hey pot, that kettle sure is black, isn't it?
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2005, 01:55 PM   #55
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
Offline
Re: Basic elements of Aikido

Quote:
Rob Liberti wrote:
Hey pot, that kettle sure is black, isn't it?
Rob, how about quit constantly detroying threads with your venom and immaturity? Take it down to 'Open Discussion' and shake your golden curls and stamp your tiny foot down there. You've been part of ruining about 3 threads, now.

Mike Sigman
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2005, 03:13 PM   #56
rob_liberti
Dojo: Shobu Aikido of Connecticut
Location: East Haven, CT
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,402
United_States
Offline
Re: Basic elements of Aikido

I thought you didn't take this personally... How about you try not demanding we all agree with you, and attacking anyone who dares disagree - and I'll stop daring to disagree. Otherwise, dry your eyes and deal with it.

Rob
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2005, 05:03 PM   #57
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
Offline
Re: Basic elements of Aikido

Quote:
Rob Liberti wrote:
I thought you didn't take this personally... How about you try not demanding we all agree with you, and attacking anyone who dares disagree - and I'll stop daring to disagree. Otherwise, dry your eyes and deal with it.
Hmmmmm. Show me the quotes on the "demanding", Rob, since that's what you're accusing me of.

And show me where you represent "all" the people and viewpoints on this forum. This little trick of yours where you represent that it's me against "everyone", when it's really just you and a few of the self-absorbed needs to be stopped. As a matter of fact, while we're on it, a couple of students of Ikeda and Saotome are curious about your twice usage of their names in claiming you're studying something special with Saotome and Ikeda. Perhaps you'd like to expand on it, since you're bandying their names about.

Lastly, how about a quote showing an "attack" since you're making that charge, too. And since when are you the moderator of the forum that you think these things are your responsibility?

Regards,

Mike Sigman
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2005, 05:41 PM   #58
Stefan Stenudd
 
Stefan Stenudd's Avatar
Dojo: Enighet Malmo Sweden
Location: Malmo
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 530
Sweden
Offline
Literature

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
In talking to Stefan yesterday, I was trying to think of some definitive "classical" work that he was asking for
Actually, I was not asking for literature, but suggesting some - for example, the Yellow Emperor classic. The other books I mentioned were I Ching (Yi Jing) and Tao Te Ching (Dao De Jing).

Personally, I find Tao Te Ching the most interesting one, also regarding the cosmology of ki/qi.

Stefan Stenudd
My aikido website: http://www.stenudd.com/aikido/
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2005, 05:54 PM   #59
eyrie
 
eyrie's Avatar
Location: Summerholm, Queensland
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,126
Australia
Offline
Re: Basic elements of Aikido

Mike,

Thank you for the extremely informative post #46.

Even though you haven't given away the entire shop, it has opened a few windows and given me just enough information to work with, in my own research and practice.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Ignatius
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2005, 06:05 PM   #60
wendyrowe
Dojo: Aikidog Aikikai
Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 199
Offline
Re: Literature

Quote:
Stefan Stenudd wrote:
Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
In talking to Stefan yesterday, I was trying to think of some definitive "classical" work that he was asking for
Actually, I was not asking for literature, but suggesting some...
I think he was referring to post #20 by Alfonso Adriasola:
Quote:
Alfonso Adriasola wrote:
Is there a known body of work (Chinese?) that consists of the "classics" that you mention?
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2005, 08:54 PM   #61
rob_liberti
Dojo: Shobu Aikido of Connecticut
Location: East Haven, CT
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,402
United_States
Offline
Re: Basic elements of Aikido

Hi Mike,

I'd take this to a PM but it belongs here because it is an example of what I stated early on in this thread - that a basic element of aikido is not intimidating anyone else and not being intimidated by anyone else.

So, I'll bite... The something special I'm studying with Saotome sensei and Ikeda sensei is called "aikido.". After seminars, whenever I get a chance to discuss anything of interest on that special subject with either of those men, I try to take it. I've done so in front of several witnesses. Sometimes I get surface level answers, sometime I get really great answers, and sometimes I get answers that I really need to think about and work on. Ask a more specific question and I'm certain I can provide examples in detail. I'm not really sure where you were going with that in the first place.

If you really feel that this statement "How about you try not demanding we all agree with you, and attacking anyone who dares disagree - and I'll stop daring to disagree" is an overstatement, then fine, I'm sorry. I should have written "How about you try not demanding we all agree with you, BY attacking anyone who dares disagree - and I'll stop daring to disagree". I'm sorry for my carelessness. Now about your contention with the "all" part; well, I'll take that back the moment you provide the number of any post in a thread where ANYONE disagreed with you and you acknowledged it as a fair point. I can find several where I have done so. I assume someone who is not "self-absorbed" can do the same.

The way I see it, the fact that neither of us are the moderator means that both of our presented opinions are open to discussion and argument. You do get to misrepresent what people say, trivialize other people's points to the cows come home, and you get to project all of your nonsense onto others here and I agree it's not up to me to stop you. It's just that I get to disagree with you and highlight that's what it looks like you are doing and _the funny thing is_ you can put a stop to that. If you catch me stating an opinion as fact, or assuming the conclusion and then concluding the assumption, or doing anything else inappropriate that I think you do please by all means feel free to bring it up. I'm really okay with it. The bottom line is that we all get to disagree with each other's logic and tactics. (For instance, I disagree with some of the things you misrepresented about me being an expert who gets paid for teaching aikido and equates aikido to Zen or some such nonsense.) I'll continue to do by best to keep my disagreements on topic. So my take is that if you think I ruined 3 threads, consider that I think I contributed to them, and maybe I only ruined them for _you_ - but then you would have to consider that you are self-absorbed and just projecting.

Rob
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2005, 08:58 PM   #62
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
Offline
Re: Literature

Quote:
Wendy Rowe wrote:
I think he was referring to post #20 by Alfonso Adriasola:
Ack. You're correct, Wendy... thanks. My apologies, Stefan.

Mike
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2005, 09:24 PM   #63
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
Offline
Re: Basic elements of Aikido

Quote:
Ignatius Teo wrote:
Thank you for the extremely informative post #46.

Even though you haven't given away the entire shop, it has opened a few windows and given me just enough information to work with, in my own research and practice.
My pleasure, Ignatius, if it helps. It was a great irritation to me to spend so many years frustrated by not finding anyone with substantive information and at the time I promised myself that if I were the one with information worth sharing, I'd do so. Besides, I've gained some information on this forum that has been quite enlightening and it's only fair to go tit for tat.

Regards,

Mike Sigman
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2005, 09:28 PM   #64
rob_liberti
Dojo: Shobu Aikido of Connecticut
Location: East Haven, CT
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,402
United_States
Offline
Re: Basic elements of Aikido

Well, my hats off to you. I feel like we both win.

Rob
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2005, 10:36 PM   #65
eyrie
 
eyrie's Avatar
Location: Summerholm, Queensland
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,126
Australia
Offline
Re: Basic elements of Aikido

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
My pleasure, Ignatius, if it helps. It was a great irritation to me to spend so many years frustrated by not finding anyone with substantive information and at the time I promised myself that if I were the one with information worth sharing, I'd do so. Besides, I've gained some information on this forum that has been quite enlightening and it's only fair to go tit for tat.

Regards,

Mike Sigman
Being of Chinese background, I understand your frustration, and can understand where you are coming from, and the obstacles you would have had to encounter in dealing with the Asian mentality and attitudes to westerners (and even towards other races within Asia itself).

So it may or may not surprise you, if I say, that what you write about understanding "idiomatic" phraseology and "cultural context" and "abtruse, flowery descriptions", that it actually means something to me!

So, yes, it helps, if we all continue to share in the same spirit, although I do not know enough at this stage to be able to share anything worthwhile.

Thank you once again.

Ignatius
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2005, 07:46 AM   #66
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
Offline
Re: Basic elements of Aikido

Quote:
Ignatius Teo wrote:
Being of Chinese background, ...
Holy Smoke... that catches me by surprise, seeing that you have such a classical Latin Catholic name of the old european order. [quote]So it may or may not surprise you, if I say, that what you write about understanding "idiomatic" phraseology and "cultural context" and "abtruse, flowery descriptions", that it actually means something to me![That's reassuring to know, thanks. I used to spend a lot of time trying to glean information from the various abstract "poems" (there are so many of them), but it always turns out that the poems are more to help you remember or to show the author has knowledge, than to teach you how to do anything.
Quote:
it helps, if we all continue to share in the same spirit, although I do not know enough at this stage to be able to share anything worthwhile..
You obviously will be one of the ones that learns, since you're serious. Either it will come as an aid to me or to someone else down the road.

All the Best.

Mike Sigman
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2005, 03:00 AM   #67
eyrie
 
eyrie's Avatar
Location: Summerholm, Queensland
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,126
Australia
Offline
Re: Basic elements of Aikido

Thanks for the kind words.

My parents were Catholic..... what can I say?

Quote:
I used to spend a lot of time trying to glean information from the various abstract "poems" (there are so many of them), but it always turns out that the poems are more to help you remember or to show the author has knowledge, than to teach you how to do anything
Unfortunately, that is how the old "inscrutable orientals" operated - they point at and talk around things, rather than speak to it directly. It is a (time honoured) way in which to communicate shared understanding, through deliberately vague analogy. Much like a secret codeword within a select circle. Unless you know the secret "codeword", the words, although in plain view, will mean nothing to you.

So something like "Mixing the essence of heaven and earth in man" would only mean something to someone who was also in the know, and since it doesn't say how, one can only presume that they were also privy to the same knowledge, either by being shown or having arrived at it independently.

So the question remains, *where* and *when* did Ueshiba obtain this knowlege and from *whom*? Was it on one of his sojurns to China/Mongolia, which was (deliberately?) omitted from his books?

And if Tohei did not put much faith in the old man's words (as in its literal meaning), how did he then arrive at the same conclusion? And how did he know how to utilize that knowledge?

Ignatius
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2005, 06:45 AM   #68
Mary Eastland
 
Mary Eastland's Avatar
Dojo: Berkshire Hills Aikido
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,157
Offline
Re: Basic elements of Aikido

Quote:
Ignatius Teo wrote:


And if Tohei did not put much faith in the old man's words (as in its literal meaning), how did he then arrive at the same conclusion? And how did he know how to utilize that knowledge?
I would guess through dedicated training.

Mary
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2005, 07:39 AM   #69
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
Offline
Re: Basic elements of Aikido

Quote:
Ignatius Teo wrote:
So something like "Mixing the essence of heaven and earth in man" would only mean something to someone who was also in the know, and since it doesn't say how, one can only presume that they were also privy to the same knowledge, either by being shown or having arrived at it independently.
I totally agree, but consider the use of the phrase you just used about "heaven and earth"... for Ueshiba to use it would indicate that he recognized it as an "in the know" phrase that was widespread among the cognoscenti and that more than just a few people would recognize it. It also (in conjunction with the supporting phraseology he uses) makes it clear that he was privy to the accepted phraseology used in China to describe these things, *at one level or another* (it needs to be kept in mind that there are degrees of this type of knowledge, from low to high). The point being that someone could have "arrived" at *some* parts of the ki and kokyu knowledge independently, but knowing what the prescribed phraseology meant indicates that they did NOT arrive at it independently. I.e., Ueshiba certainly had training of some sort. One of the questions that keep bothering me is why Tohei and others have not published an analysis of O-Sensei's comments within the doka... it's almost impossible, in my mind, that some of them don't know full well what Ueshiba was talking about. Their silence is something of a confirmation of the idea that secrets are being deliberately kept.
Quote:
So the question remains, *where* and *when* did Ueshiba obtain this knowlege and from *whom*? Was it on one of his sojurns to China/Mongolia, which was (deliberately?) omitted from his books?
Given the indications that other ryu and arts used/use this same knowledge, etc., I'd suggest that he got his basic information (if not everything) in Japan. But that's just a guess. He may have acquired additive information in China.... that would certainly answer the question of why he thought his "art" deserved to be separate from Daito-Ryu. At the moment it's impossible to settle on a definite answer, though.
Quote:
And if Tohei did not put much faith in the old man's words (as in its literal meaning), how did he then arrive at the same conclusion? And how did he know how to utilize that knowledge?
Tohei obviously was trained in a different manner in a different tradition... within the Chinese communitiy there are also a number of approaches. However the point is that regardless of the terminology, there's only one way these things works, whether between styles, traditions, cultures (e.g., Japan and China), and so on. So once Tohei got his knowledge, he would have been able to see how it was the same thing that Ueshiba used and he would have been able to easily extrapolate *some* of the things if there was a question about how something worked in a technique. Because there are levels of understanding, there may well be some things Ueshiba knew that Tohei never learned and vice versa. It's impossible to get much of this just by "hard practice"... someone has to teach you too many of things. The question of how much Ueshiba knew (I would bet heavily on "more" rather than "less", from what I've learned lately) is really what these discussions may ultimately delve into as more and more Aikido people become acquainted with the material.

Regards,

Mike Sigman
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2005, 07:38 PM   #70
eyrie
 
eyrie's Avatar
Location: Summerholm, Queensland
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,126
Australia
Offline
Re: Basic elements of Aikido

Quote:
He may have acquired additive information in China....
For argument's sake, let's suppose he did, or he observed something whilst he was there, that opened a window for him? We must then also assume that the basic information was already available to him, via Daito-ryu. Perhaps our fellow Daito-ryu practitioners here can pitch in? Are there specific exercises in Daito that focus specifically on ki and kokyu development?

Quote:
So once Tohei got his knowledge, he would have been able to see how it was the same thing that Ueshiba used and he would have been able to easily extrapolate *some* of the things...
How does this explain Shioda's abilities? Shioda must have been shown the same, if not similar, things.

Quote:
It's impossible to get much of this just by "hard practice"... someone has to teach you too many of things.
I agree. Or they have to at least show you, and open certain doors at your level of experience.

Out of curiousity, how much of the imagery used in the dokas is easily attributable to Omoto-kyo cosmology?

Ignatius
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2005, 07:49 PM   #71
rob_liberti
Dojo: Shobu Aikido of Connecticut
Location: East Haven, CT
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,402
United_States
Offline
Re: Basic elements of Aikido

Quote:
Out of curiousity, how much of the imagery used in the dokas is easily attributable to Omoto-kyo cosmology?
If it turned out to be 100%, what would that mean?

Rob
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2005, 09:07 PM   #72
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
Offline
Re: Basic elements of Aikido

Quote:
Ignatius Teo wrote:
For argument's sake, let's suppose he did, or he observed something whilst he was there, that opened a window for him? We must then also assume that the basic information was already available to him, via Daito-ryu. Perhaps our fellow Daito-ryu practitioners here can pitch in? Are there specific exercises in Daito that focus specifically on ki and kokyu development?
Isn't that like asking most Aikido practitioners the specifics of the inner-core ki and kokyu exercises? The vast majority of practitioners are unaware that there is any such thing, would probably insist that they know all there is, etc. and might get irritated with you bringing up the topic which obliquely infers that they don't know everything about their art. I.e., asking an open question like this probably won't yield any substantive results of a pro or con nature.
Quote:
How does this explain Shioda's abilities? Shioda must have been shown the same, if not similar, things.
I don't know. I've been trying to puzzle that out for a while and I simply don't have enough information to put my chips on any solid bet. If I had to guess, Shioda's training was not complete in the classical sense, but he was a smart man and he knew a lot and gave a very good analysis of what he knew. For all practical purposes, in my personal opinion, he knew more than enough to wind up with some of the best Aikido in the full sense of the term Aikido. Whether he was able or willing to transmit all he knew is a question I don't have the answer to, but I think it would be interesting to know. Note that it appears that Ueshiba did not transmit everything he knew to his students, either, except for possibly one or two (this comment reflects an opinion and is not meant to be "fact").
Quote:
Out of curiousity, how much of the imagery used in the dokas is easily attributable to Omoto-kyo cosmology?
Well some of it must be, but certainly not all... not unless Omoto-kyo also taught martial arts. It appears that Ueshiba was combining his martial arts, his ki and kokyu knowledge (including the classical stuff), and his religion... all 3 of them... eclectically into his new martial art, Aikido.

It also appears that the fairly clever uchi-deshi focused on the martial art and the ki/kokyu things and didn't get too involved in the religious part (some state this avoidance of religion publicly in interviews, so it's a pretty safe statement to make). I would personally tend to go this route also and to glean the martial and ki aspects out separately.

My other personal tendency would be to do sort of what Tohei does in respect to assigning rank in Aikido and also rank in "ki development". I.e., by doing this, Tohei is pointing out that ki/kokyu development is not necessarily chained to Aikido or any other art. However, Tohei's approach is to teach ki within Aikido and I tend to suggest that you don't need any particular martial art to learn the skills (which is what a number of qigongs also do, BTW).

In other words, going back to your question, I think Ueshiba's imagery was composed of religion, martial art/tactics/strategy, and ki development (in the martial sense). So I wouldn't attribute all of his imagery to Omoto-kyo, personally.

My opinion, FWIW

Mike
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2005, 09:41 PM   #73
eyrie
 
eyrie's Avatar
Location: Summerholm, Queensland
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,126
Australia
Offline
Re: Basic elements of Aikido

I just found an interview of Tohei by Aikido Journal, in which Tohei specifically states that he got the key (pun intended) from his sempai Tempu Nakamura (who was, in Tohei's words, "a yoga master and psychologist").

Here's the bit I found:
Quote:
When I went to Hawaii and tried to use the techniques I had learned from Ueshiba Sensei, I found that many of them were ineffective. What Sensei said and what he did were two different things. For example, despite the fact that he himself was very relaxed, he told his students to do sharp, powerful techniques. When I got to Hawaii, however, there were guys as strong as Akebono and Konishiki [two well-known Hawaiian sumo wrestlers] all over the place. There's just no way to use force or power to prevail against that kind of strength.

When you're firmly pinned or controlled, the parts of your body that are pinned directly simply can't move. All you can do is start a movement from those parts that you can move, and the only way to do that successfully is to relax. Even if your opponent has you with all his strength, you can still send him flying if you're relaxed when you do your throw. This was something I experienced first-hand during that trip to Hawaii, and when I returned to Japan and had another look at Ueshiba Sensei, I realized that he did indeed apply his techniques from a very relaxed state.

While I was with Ueshiba Sensei I was also studying under Tempu Nakamura. It was he who first taught me that "the mind moves the body." Those words struck me like a bolt of electricity and opened my eyes to the whole realm of aikido. From that point on I began to rework all of my aikido techniques. I threw away techniques that went against logic and selected and re-organized those I felt were usable.

Now my aikido consists of about thirty percent Ueshiba Sensei's techniques and seventy percent my own.

Ignatius
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2005, 09:55 PM   #74
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
Offline
Re: Basic elements of Aikido

Quote:
Ignatius Teo wrote:
I just found an interview of Tohei by Aikido Journal, in which Tohei specifically states that he got the key (pun intended) from his sempai Tempu Nakamura (who was, in Tohei's words, "a yoga master and psychologist").:
I have that particular interview in my files already and it essentially credits Nakamura with some of Tohei's knowledge and slightly disparages Ueshiba's Aikido. In other places in the same interview, some of the comments about Ueshiba seem to, in my personal opinion, go a bit over the top... so I tend to mark the exactness of the assertions in that interview as being subject to question because there is evidently some amount of conflict involved.

I have no problem with the idea that Tohei learned some of the basic ki knowledge via Nakamura, though. However, since the principles of ki development are fairly immutable, I only note that this tells me that Ueshiba didn't share freely.

FWIW

Mike
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2005, 09:57 PM   #75
eyrie
 
eyrie's Avatar
Location: Summerholm, Queensland
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,126
Australia
Offline
Re: Basic elements of Aikido

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
Isn't that like asking most Aikido practitioners the specifics of the inner-core ki and kokyu exercises? The vast majority of practitioners are unaware that there is any such thing, would probably insist that they know all there is, etc. and might get irritated with you bringing up the topic which obliquely infers that they don't know everything about their art. I.e., asking an open question like this probably won't yield any substantive results of a pro or con nature.
My bad. I'm sure I could have phrased it better.

Quote:
Well some of it must be, but certainly not all... not unless Omoto-kyo also taught martial arts. It appears that Ueshiba was combining his martial arts, his ki and kokyu knowledge (including the classical stuff), and his religion... all 3 of them... eclectically into his new martial art, Aikido.
Onasaburo Deguchi, from all accounts, was largely instrumental in encouraging Ueshiba in this matter. Put together the (historical) fact that, both men were extremely eccentric and probably fed off each others idiosyncracies, it wouldn't be at all surprising.

Quote:
...Tohei is pointing out that ki/kokyu development is not necessarily chained to Aikido or any other art. However, Tohei's approach is to teach ki within Aikido and I tend to suggest that you don't need any particular martial art to learn the skills (which is what a number of qigongs also do, BTW).
Well it's not. And I agree, you don't need to. Personally, if I were to do ki, I would go back to the source, i.e. yoga and shaolin/wudang-based martial qigong.

Ignatius
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Aikido DVDs and Video Downloads - by George Ledyard Sensei & other great teachers from AikidoDVDS.Com



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Aikido in Amsterdam, Terry Lax style... tiyler_durden General 11 11-03-2008 08:31 AM
Aikido: Its Spirit and Technique TAnderson General 0 02-27-2007 07:50 AM
Highest Level Martial Arts and Aikido Mike Sigman General 240 08-12-2005 06:22 PM
Proposta organização do Aikido Portugal kimusubi0 Portuguese 0 05-03-2004 03:26 AM
Propostarganização do Aikido em Portugal kimusubi0 French 0 05-01-2004 02:30 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:49 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate