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Old 05-02-2005, 08:04 AM   #76
kironin
 
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Re: Tohei throwing Judoka in Hawaii?

Quote:
Charlie Laidlaw wrote:
Before someone else brings it up as a counterargument, I should mention that Tohei is also infamous for what is one of the poorest demonstrations of aikido (a video clip of which is posted somewhere on the web, but the computer I was surfing on at the time was unable to play it). I think it involved some overweight middle-age reporter who asked to have a go at Tohei, and the guy gave Tohei a lot of difficulty. As I recall, Tohei had to revert to some judo techniques to overcome him. Was this at an earlier stage of Tohei's career when he still hadn't perfected his abilities? Or is it the case that he had to be spot on to perform at a very high level, and anything less than that and his abilities declined drastically. Or is this the actual evidence of his abilities and the multiple attacker stuff is fake? I suspect the skeptics will quickly assume the latter. For myself, I think an alternative explanation is more likely, such as he started off by trying to take it easy on the guy and then got himself into a bad position. There was obviously no danger of that happening in the multiple judoka incident. In fact, as I recall, Tohei himself had little confidence in his abilities the first few times he was tricked or pressured into doing these types of demos.

The episode with the camera man you are refering to can be found in the video series Aikido Journal had of Morihei Ueshiba. It's a silly short lived American TV Show from the 1950's called "Randevous with Adventure" and has two guys in Safari hats wondering around Tokyo. They end up taking a personal lesson at Aikikai Hombu after interviewing Ueshiba Sensei with Tohei Sensei interpreting.

Have you ever had someone want to see if what you do works in a "real" fight, but is out of shape, can barely take of themselves, can't take a fall, no martial arts training (but thinks they can take you), after not getting the best of it desparately comes in to clinch like a sak of potatoes without really any offensive position, you have agreed not to wack them or otherwise do them any harm while they can try whatever comes to their mind ? That's exactly what it looks like and apparently was from accounts. Awkward and ugly, Tohei Sensei ends up pinning the guy's head to the mat with his hand. The guy is not harmed and squirms around on the ground helplessly.

and yes his political enemies did use it in an attempt to belittle him. which reveals more about their motives than it does about Tohei Sensei's abilities.

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Old 05-02-2005, 10:48 PM   #77
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Re: Tohei throwing Judoka in Hawaii?

Quote:
Paul Nowicki wrote:
So what really happened there? I was looking for this video and never found it. Do you have a link to i possibly? Tell us realistically what occurred there?
Sorry for the late reply. It was in 1962, and was actually Robert Kennedy who was the Attorney General at the time and his wife.
The video I have seen shows Gozo Shioda throwing an uke a few times only using his body, then it cuts to one of Shioda's students trying to show a man (who could be the bodyguard, or an assistant to RFK) how to do Nikyo. The student does it on the Bodyguard as the clip starts, them the student reverses it, and the Bodyguard falls to the ground and almost rolls over kind of laughing.

It then shows an aikidoka showing RFK how to do it, then it cuts to a female aikidoka showing RFK's wife how to do the technique. RFK's wife doesn't seem to have a clue as to what is going on.

It was all innocent fun, and a big PR event with smiles and cameras everywhere.

I'll try to post it if anyone is interested, but it's really a disappointment after hearing all the stories about it. I didn't see Gozo Shioda showing anyone anything other than his 2 or 3 throws he did with his uke.

---------------------------------------------------------

I found this account on another web site, which I never witnessed on the tape:

1962 (age 47/48) Robert Kennedy visits the Yoshinkan. One of his body guards challenges Gozo and was immediately incapacitated. Popularity of Yoshinkan aikido jumped as a result of this visit and the media coverage that followed.

If this happened, why was it edited out? I think this is the type of hype that snowballs into grand stories. If it did happen, I would bet there isn't any video of it, just stories about someone who heard it from there friend who was there!!
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Old 05-03-2005, 09:55 AM   #78
bob_stra
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Re: Tohei throwing Judoka in Hawaii?

I too would be curious to see footage of this. Not for any sort of adversarial, He man, chest thumping thing but rather because I'd like to see how the "magician pulled the rabbit out of a hat".

You'd have to admit - dealing with 1 Yodan is hairy enough but 5 simultaneously? Hell! Book me a ticket to that show - I wanna learn how that's done!

So - is there video footage of this (or something similar) on the net anywhere? How exactly would such a thing be done given the transcript in message #73?
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Old 06-29-2005, 02:02 PM   #79
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Re: Tohei throwing Judoka in Hawaii?

Chris Li wrote:
Quote:
Anyway, problems with larger opponents are endemic to any martial art aren't they?
Not in Muay Thai or Kung Fu...and if you have a problem with a larger opponent in those two arts...then you just suck! I mean...I'd like to believe that most arts have a solution to most, if not all situations, but in my experience and practice of the two above mentioned arts as well as watching a lot of MMA and Kickboxing competitions...those two styles can really show you how to take out a larger guy. If you don't believe me...check out the K-1 Asia Grand Prix Elimination in Seoul (or somewhere in Korea) Korea. It aired on PPV in February I believe. Anywho...the biggest star in the tournament was this Muay Thai expert from Thailand who destroyed everyone...and everyone he fought was like a foot taller than him. Heck...the last guy he fought was this Korean Ssileum Champ who was about 7'0'' tall and the Muay Thai dude was only 5'8" or 5'10". Anywho...the Muay Thai guy lost by unanimous decision...which I think was unfair 'cause he pretty much hurt the other guy numerous times...but you know how those south koreans like being unfair in international competition...remember the summer Olympics last year and the gold medal gymnastics scandal? lol!
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Old 06-29-2005, 02:38 PM   #80
Chris Li
 
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Re: Tohei throwing Judoka in Hawaii?

Quote:
Alan M. Rodriguez wrote:
Chris Li wrote:


Not in Muay Thai or Kung Fu...and if you have a problem with a larger opponent in those two arts...then you just suck! I mean...I'd like to believe that most arts have a solution to most, if not all situations, but in my experience and practice of the two above mentioned arts as well as watching a lot of MMA and Kickboxing competitions...those two styles can really show you how to take out a larger guy. If you don't believe me...check out the K-1 Asia Grand Prix Elimination in Seoul (or somewhere in Korea) Korea. It aired on PPV in February I believe. Anywho...the biggest star in the tournament was this Muay Thai expert from Thailand who destroyed everyone...and everyone he fought was like a foot taller than him. Heck...the last guy he fought was this Korean Ssileum Champ who was about 7'0'' tall and the Muay Thai dude was only 5'8" or 5'10". Anywho...the Muay Thai guy lost by unanimous decision...which I think was unfair 'cause he pretty much hurt the other guy numerous times...but you know how those south koreans like being unfair in international competition...remember the summer Olympics last year and the gold medal gymnastics scandal? lol!
No matter the art, size and strength are always a factor. Also, you don't see many Muay Thai folks in their older than their 20's, their bodies tend to wear out.

Best,

Chris

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Old 06-29-2005, 02:50 PM   #81
Mike Sigman
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Re: Tohei throwing Judoka in Hawaii?

Quote:
Craig Hocker wrote:
The episode with the camera man you are refering to can be found in the video series Aikido Journal had of Morihei Ueshiba. It's a silly short lived American TV Show from the 1950's called "Randevous with Adventure" and has two guys in Safari hats wondering around Tokyo. They end up taking a personal lesson at Aikikai Hombu after interviewing Ueshiba Sensei with Tohei Sensei interpreting.
I think that demonstration for the cameras is way over-talked among people discussing Tohei. Tohei obviously didn't know exactly what to do with Lard-ass the American Journalist because the American was a clown... it was a put-on comedy and Ueshiba shouldn't have used Tohei for such a poorly-staged piece of malarkey. Anyone who publicly gauges Tohei's performance from that non-event will mark themselves.

FWIW

Mike
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