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Old 04-29-2005, 02:27 PM   #51
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Tohei throwing Judoka in Hawaii?

If you make it up to Phila. we can train together...how about that?


Ron Tisdale
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Old 04-29-2005, 02:40 PM   #52
Michael Neal
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Re: Tohei throwing Judoka in Hawaii?

I would be happy to train with you Ron, but I am not issuing a challenge to you or anything. I only have a little over 2 years experience in Judo.

But anyone who feels up to the 5 judokas I will be happy to try and arrange it, that is a hard task to accomplish and you certainly would not look bad if you failed. I also think it would be fun to have 5 Aikidoka against 1 Judoka to see what would happen there as well.
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Old 04-29-2005, 02:48 PM   #53
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Tohei throwing Judoka in Hawaii?

Quote:
I also think it would be fun to have 5 Aikidoka against 1 Judoka to see what would happen there as well.
Ok, I'm up for that one!

Ron (smacking his lips and thinking 'take the shot!, take the shot! No one ever expects an aikidoka to do a double leg!') :>

Ron Tisdale
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Old 04-29-2005, 02:51 PM   #54
Michael Neal
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Re: Tohei throwing Judoka in Hawaii?

bear in mind I think the Judoka would have no chance either
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Old 04-29-2005, 03:01 PM   #55
sanskara
 
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Re: Tohei throwing Judoka in Hawaii?

I'll take a challenge if someone pays me enough and I get to make the rules. Otherwise, it's a whole lot of hassle with nothing in it for me--just sayin'.

The Tohei challenges are interesting because even years after the split, he remains a controversial figure. Gozo Shioda also was involved in challenges in Hawaii and elsewhere, and even broke some poor shmuck's arm with a Shihonage, if I recall correctly. But despite the absence of video, there isn't much call for proof. People were there, just like with Tohei, what's left to say? No one here on the Aiki side is buying into the crock that the system makes the martial artist.

If the level of today's Aikido doesn't exactly instill confidence in Judo practitioners enjoying the publicity that grappling arts are currently receiving in the media, who's really surprised? But every once in a while I'll come across a football game on TV where a single individual is able to actively defend against being tackled and taken down by eleven other atheletes, without performing any martial techniques, with one hand wrapped around a football they must maintain possession of, and running in one direction towards a known goal the defense has already set up a strategy to block.

Maybe if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes, I wouldn't believe it, or maybe I'd just take people's word for it, and move on to practice what suits my fancy--tough call, really.

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James Bostwick
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Old 04-29-2005, 03:47 PM   #56
Dan Rubin
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Re: Tohei throwing Judoka in Hawaii?

Quote:
Rob Liberti wrote:
My point is that humans tend to get a bit starry-eyed when it comes to telling stories about people they greatly admire.
I agree.

Quote:
Rob Liberti wrote:
I have no doubt that the person who was relaying the story from someone who was there was doing an accurate job of re-telling what he heard.
I always doubt that. Too many games of "telephone" when I was a kid, I guess.

Dan

Last edited by Dan Rubin : 04-29-2005 at 03:51 PM.
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Old 04-29-2005, 05:40 PM   #57
Charles Hill
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Re: Tohei throwing Judoka in Hawaii?

Quote:
Nixon Na wrote:
Hmm.. mm.. b..but..wwots the story??
We`re waiting!!!! Come on Rob, stop teasing us!!!

Charles
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Old 04-29-2005, 07:25 PM   #58
Zato Ichi
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Re: Tohei throwing Judoka in Hawaii?

Quote:
Michael Neal wrote:
bear in mind I think the Judoka would have no chance either
Well, that's pretty obvious no matter what your trained in: a five on one situation is a losing proposition. Hell, a two on one situation is going to be messy and over really fast in most cases in randori.

That being said, I think, given the respective maai of judo and aikido, the aikido guy would last a little longer (assuming everyone is roughly the same size, a big hulking tori against five normal size uke would change the dynamic somewhat).

I'm also curious - in a straight, one-on-one randori between a judoka and aikidoka, what exactly would be the rules? After all, its randori, not a street fight. My recollection of judo randori rules are a little fuzzy (it's been a long time since I've played) but I know the basics. But aikido? The Shodokan toshu rules are pretty restricting compared to judo rules, and I'm not familiar with any other kind of aikido randori rules.
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Old 04-29-2005, 10:20 PM   #59
Michael Neal
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Re: Tohei throwing Judoka in Hawaii?

Quote:
I'll take a challenge if someone pays me enough and I get to make the rules. Otherwise, it's a whole lot of hassle with nothing in it for me--just sayin'.
Why in the world would someone pay you as well as let you make the rules?

Quote:
Well, that's pretty obvious no matter what your trained in: a five on one situation is a losing proposition. Hell, a two on one situation is going to be messy and over really fast in most cases in randori.

That being said, I think, given the respective maai of judo and aikido, the aikido guy would last a little longer (assuming everyone is roughly the same size, a big hulking tori against five normal size uke would change the dynamic somewhat).

I'm also curious - in a straight, one-on-one randori between a judoka and aikidoka, what exactly would be the rules? After all, its randori, not a street fight. My recollection of judo randori rules are a little fuzzy (it's been a long time since I've played) but I know the basics. But aikido? The Shodokan toshu rules are pretty restricting compared to judo rules, and I'm not familiar with any other kind of aikido randori rules.
I agree that Aikido guys (that train multiple attacker randori on a regular basis) would be better than most judoka at mutiple attacker randori. This is because they train that scenerio. However, I think this would only apply to attacks by relatively unskilled opponents.

I am not sure how effective they would be against Judoka who generally do not over commit themselves and have supurb balance and skill. Most of the Aikido randori I have experienced or witnessed has been at least partially cooperative in nature with somewhat idealistic attacks.

One on one I have to give the distinct advantage to the Judoka who train randori every class and compete.
I am not sure what rules would be adopted, one solution could be to allow both the Aikidoka and Judoka to use any technique in their syllabus except for atemi, biting, eye gouging etc. Maybe restricting a few throws from each style that are particularly dangerous to the spine for caution.

I do think that both the Judoka and Aikidoka should have at least a rank of shodan so that the ukemi skills would be good enough to avoid serious injuries.
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Old 04-29-2005, 10:52 PM   #60
rob_liberti
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Re: Tohei throwing Judoka in Hawaii?

Charles, let it not be misconstrued that I don't disagree; thank you. (Seriously, sorry, but I the only good that serves is the stary-eyed student retelling message.)

Quote:
Dan Rubin wrote:
Too many games of "telephone" when I was a kid,
Well, maybe, I'm not an expert on memory. Maybe my logic is flawed here; but here is my reasoning:
1) The telephone game wouldn't be very interesting when only two people are playing - especially if they were both fairly bright.
2) Also, I think that people tend to remember stories - especially ones that are of interest to them for whatever reason a lot better than some random message in the telephone game. Try asking anyone who didn't see the last Tyson v. Hollyfield fight what happened, and see if they get the whole biting the ear thing right or if the story has mutated yet.

Either way, I'm going to back out of this thread.

Rob
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Old 04-30-2005, 02:38 AM   #61
Mark Tennenhouse
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Re: Tohei throwing Judoka in Hawaii?

More importantly, what about the Aikidoka of today??? Legends and stories are exciting but what about the weakness and impracticality of the Aikido we see practiced today?

Today, you will not see an Aikidoka capable of fighting a single skilled judoka, much less 5 Judoka at once.

If Aikido is so effective, why not use it in Judo matches? Why not use it in boxing or wrestling matches? Why not use it against the mixed martial artists that have almost no rules in their matches?

I believe the reason it's not seen in ANY kind of contest is that Aikido is simply not understood by today's instructors.
All of the instructors I've seen (including the top names from Japan, USA and France) teach Aikido as a cooperative Kata or drill. It's simply not taught or understood as a combat sport or practical combat art.

What instructor can show how to defeat a skilled wrestling attack or a skilled boxing attack or a skilled groundfighting attack using Aikido??
Where are the real inheritors of Aikido skill? So far, I've seen only imitators that work against cooperative partners. I want to see Aikido that works against a fighting opponent.

Who knows how to work against REAL resistance??

I have tested out my fellow Aikido instructors and students against realistic attacks on several occasions and they inevitably fail.
A few tests I use are collar grabs, side headlocks, rear chokeholds and rear bearhugs. I don't do these tests gently. I grab and hold tightly and move them around a little. The aikidoka don't practice against these kinds of tight rough holds so they can't handle the power and movement. I've tested legitimate black belts in Aikido this way and it's the same result..

Without drilling against real punching, against real shoves and clinching, against real holds and grabs like we see in wrestling or the mixed martial arts matches, how can any Aikidoka ever develop practical skills???
So instead of talking about how some legendary fighter could whip 5 Judoka, isn't it more important to ask what Aikido can do today?

Aikido is not being taught PROPERLY, that is realistically. It means that Aikido training has gone off in the wrong direction. It has become a kata based drill. Instead, it should be a practical combative sport and art.

Thanks,
Mark Tennenhouse
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Old 04-30-2005, 06:27 AM   #62
Zato Ichi
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Re: Tohei throwing Judoka in Hawaii?

Quote:
Michael Neal wrote:
Why in the world would someone pay you as well as let you make the rules?
You obviously haven't heard of Ashida Kim and the $10000 challenge!
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Old 04-30-2005, 11:01 AM   #63
rob_liberti
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Re: Tohei throwing Judoka in Hawaii?

Mark,

Exactly which top senseis from USA, France, and Japan did you put in a headlock? How exactly did you get into that position?

I have some friends who are not top senseis in Japan and I would love to see you try to put a side headlock on them. I'll be visiting Japan in April of 2006, please by all means join me. I would love to see that.

Good luck in your training.

Rob
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Old 04-30-2005, 12:02 PM   #64
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Re: Tohei throwing Judoka in Hawaii?

I can understand the skepticism about what K. Tohei did when introducing Aikido to the U.S.. Today there are many "Grandmasters" and other self-proclaimed high level martial artists around the country. They can tell you stories that boost their accomplishments to legendary status. However those are just stories and they are all talk.

When K. Tohei did a randori against 5 higher ranked black belts in the AAU All American Judo Tournament at San Jose CA in May 1953, it was significant for several reasons. This was the first time people attacked him all at once. Before, the attackers would attack judo style, one at a time. This time because of instructions by the announcer, all five attacked at once. This was a large tournament with close to 2,000 spectators and film footage shot during the randori, so this was an early well documented American Aikido event. This was also the first time anyone had seen a randori done in this manner.

People have a hard time believing this today. This reminds me of when the Nazi concentration camps were discovered by the Allies in WWII. Eisenhower had all the Germans from the surrounding towns and villages marched through the camps, Ike knew that unless this was done, people would deny that those camps ever existed. Today people do deny or minimize the existence of those camps, despite the eye-witness accounts and documentation. So why should K. Tohei's accomplishments be treated any differently?

Multi-person attacks for testing usually start at black belt. This depends on the organization. For those who have never seen or tired it, you're like the road runner being chased by several coyotes around the mat. If you try to fight and stand your ground, you're cooked, so you need to keep moving. But suddenly that mat becomes really small and crowded.

It has been over fifty years since Aikido started in the U.S. It is a martial art that grew quickly in popularity because people found something worthwhile about it. They have also done extraordinary things to establish it here. They have sacrifice a lot. As an person practicing Aikido in the U.S., I'd like to say that I'm grateful for all their efforts and appreciate this inheritance they have created.

It is not practice that makes perfect, it is correct practice that makes perfect.
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Old 04-30-2005, 04:24 PM   #65
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Re: Tohei throwing Judoka in Hawaii?

Quote:
Mark Tennenhouse wrote:
Today, you will not see an Aikidoka capable of fighting a single skilled judoka, much less 5 Judoka at once.
well, it's always dangerous to make generalizations. I have tussled with a couple of skilled judoka and held my own. Now, was either of us trying to prove something, no. Did it go back and forth, yes. Did I have any trouble holding my own? no. Skilled ? we were both well trained black belts in our respective arts. Does it prove any thing ?
probably not.

since you live in Florida, I would suggest you go over to the Shindai Aikikai in Orlando and go play in their advanced classes.
They probably can help you out some on your quest.

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Old 04-30-2005, 05:13 PM   #66
mj
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Re: Tohei throwing Judoka in Hawaii?

Quote:
Ted Ehara wrote:
....When K. Tohei did a randori against 5 ... Nazi concentration camps...
You may be stretching this slightly.

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Old 04-30-2005, 11:48 PM   #67
Misogi-no-Gyo
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Re: Tohei throwing Judoka in Hawaii?

Quote:
Ted Ehara wrote:
....When K. Tohei did a randori against 5 ... Nazi concentration camps...

to which Mark Johnston replied
Quote:
You may be stretching this slightly.
Were you implying that Tohei Sensei survived 5 Nazi Concentration camps, or that he did randori versus 5 Nazi concentration camp survivors? Or should I take it as you wrote it, that he did randori against 5 whole concetration camps? Well, at least I understand why it is so hard to get to see a copy of the video.

No Seriously, I think Ted makes a valid point, and isn't stretching anything accept the minds and the lousy arguments of the doubters, naysayers and the like... Of course, I wasn't there, but it is entirely possible that some of those from the concentration camps could have had some judo background. I mean that is what he was implying right?



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I no longer participate in or read the discussion forums here on AikiWeb due to the unfair and uneven treatment of people by the owner/administrator.
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Old 05-01-2005, 06:23 AM   #68
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Re: Tohei throwing Judoka in Hawaii?

Quote:
Mark Tennenhouse wrote:
Aikido is not being taught PROPERLY, that is realistically. It means that Aikido training has gone off in the wrong direction. It has become a kata based drill. Instead, it should be a practical combative sport and art.

Thanks,
Mark Tennenhouse
Mark -

You don't mention how long you have studied Aikido or your rank but it seems that you have an opportunity to fill a gap here. Instead of lamenting about how Aikido is taught why don't you start training students to learn Aikido as a purely fighting art? You can pare the art down to its essentials from a combat standpoint and concentrate on adapting technique to real situations. Just a thought.
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Old 05-01-2005, 10:06 AM   #69
Don_Modesto
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Re: Tohei throwing Judoka in Hawaii?

Quote:
Ted Ehara wrote:
I can understand the skepticism about what K. Tohei did....People have a hard time believing this today. This reminds me of when the Nazi concentration camps were discovered by the Allies in WWII. Eisenhower had all the Germans from the surrounding towns and villages marched through the camps, Ike knew that unless this was done, people would deny that those camps ever existed. Today people do deny or minimize the existence of those camps, despite the eye-witness accounts and documentation. So why should K. Tohei's accomplishments be treated any differently?
Ike showed the evidence. Where's the evidence for Tohei's feat? Why has the film this marvelous moment never been released to the public?

It's quite sound intellectual hygiene to doubt tales so closely resembling mythology. Read all the revisionist history being done about karate, e.g., how this one was a giant (not!) and this one an illiterate buffoon (not!). See the revisionism necessary re: aikido vis a vis DR after Pranin's research. We have good reasons to doubt what we are told even (especially?) on the best of authority.

I commented on one of these boards once that a Jpn SHIHAN looked nervous during Hombu's annual demonstration and all sorts of folk came to his "defense"--he wasn't allowed to be human. I'll believe the Tohei thing when I see the film.

Don J. Modesto
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Old 05-01-2005, 03:00 PM   #70
jester
 
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Re: Tohei throwing Judoka in Hawaii?

Quote:
Ted Ehara wrote:
This was a large tournament with close to 2,000 spectators and film footage shot during the randori, so this was an early well documented American Aikido event.
OK, So where's the film?????
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Old 05-01-2005, 05:28 PM   #71
kironin
 
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Re: Tohei throwing Judoka in Hawaii?

Quote:
Don J. Modesto wrote:
Ike showed the evidence. Where's the evidence for Tohei's feat? Why has the film this marvelous moment never been released to the public?
Well, why did the marvelous little 5 and half minute 1967 film of Tohei Sensei tossing Yamada Sensei around and then whipping the jo around like the Energizer bunny on an overdose of speed only recently become publicly available? Stanely Pranin talked someone in to sharing their privately owned film after he became aware of it over 35 years later.

Quote:
Dr. Kurisaki, the vice-president of Nishikai, asked if it was possible to handle more than one attacker using Aikido. Tohei replied that it must be possible if you use mind and body coordination, although he had never practiced aikido against more than one opponent at a time and nearly everyone he trained with was around his own size. Dr. Kurisaki asked for a demonstration and Tohei agreed. He found himself facing seven men, all of them 4th Dan or higher in Judo. There was even a 16mm camera to record the event.

On Dr. Kurisaki's signal, the seven men attacked. Tohei moved like mad, throwing and evading, until finally Dr. Kurisaki gave the signal to stop. Thinking he had terribly embarrassed himself, he was surprised to hear a great applause. Later, when he saw the film of the attackers, he himself was surprised at how smooth it looked.
Well, Dr. Katsuzo Nishi died in 1959. Dr. Kurisaki is probably not still alive. Nishi Kai seems to still exist in Japan (www.nishikai.net) but no evidence on the web of the organization still existing in Hawaii. Track down Kyoto Fujioka perhaps. You could start a fundraiser for Stanely Pranin to go to Hawaii and do some investigating to find the film reel or at least what happened to it.



You can wish people always had the foresight to preserve such films, but it doesn't alway happen.

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Old 05-01-2005, 07:37 PM   #72
Michael Neal
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Re: Tohei throwing Judoka in Hawaii?

One thing I do not doubt is that Tohei was an amazing martial artist with tremendous skill, and I do not doubt the ability of skilled Aikidoka to fight off multiple attackers. It is just that osome of these stories sound too fantastic too me, I am not being critical of Aikido.
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Old 05-01-2005, 08:45 PM   #73
gwailoh
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Re: Tohei throwing Judoka in Hawaii?

this was recently posted by an anonymous guest on the Judoforum thread on this topic. two highlights for me:

1. can anyone track down the first-hand-witnesses Robert W. Smith or 'Big' Jim Nesby, and speak to them about it?

2. Anyone have a link to the Tohei vs. Fat Reporter video?

-----------------------------------------------------------------

What I've done below is type out Robert W. Smith's first-hand account of this incident (from Martial Musings):

"Despite my analytical problems with aikido, I have to assume that Ueshiba was a singular figure. The evidence for this is his top student, Koichi Tohei. I first heard of Tohei at the First U.S. Judo Tournament in San Jose, California, in 1953. Some of us were chatting about judo and one veered off with the information that an expert in something called aikido was present from Hawaii and would demonstrate his art. Rumor had it that this Tohei had defeated the top fighters in Hawaii before securing a teaching niche there.

Later, in a lull in the program, here came Tohei, al little man with a smile bigger than he was. He took the stage and submitted to varieties of insult to his person. Three big judoka simultaneously put locks on his neck and both arms. He tossed them airward with abandon. Next he demonstrated rare efficiency in stick work (bojutsu). All this was interesting and pleasant to watch. The main course, next up, left us flabbergasted. Tohei stood and invited five black belt judokas to have at him simultaneously. Fifteen lined up and five fanned out and jumped him. This was no multiple attack chioreographed so that the defender had enough time and space to deal with each attacker singly -- the meretricious stuff that bores and stultifies. Not a bit. The surrounding circle hit Tohei almost in unison. he moved amongst them, throwing them in all directions, even into each other. Up they got, tried again, and down they went. Three were greedy and tried thrice only to hit the mat again. After that, enthusiasm waned and the group desisted.

Although Tohei was said to have a high judo rank, his throws didn't resemble judo techniques. He seemed to do things like te-waza tomoenage and wrist twists with such elan that murmurs of "ki" spread through the audience. Everything dissolved in front of his gentle applications. Big Jim Nisby, a giant judoka and former California All-state footballer, one of the five attackers, attempted a diving tackle from 15 feet. Tohei put out a light hand and stopped Jim dead in his tracks, then, in almost the same movement, pushed him into the pile of bodies. It was all marvelous."

It is noteworthy that this follows a passage in which Smith is extremely critical of aikido as a effective means of self-defence, so he's no starry-eyed believer in this stuff. Note too that he seems to know one of the attackers personally (would anyone be able to track this guy down, if he's still alive?). Given too that Smith was very well-connected in judo at the time, if the "fix was in", it seems almost inconceivable that he wouldn't have found out about it.

Before someone else brings it up as a counterargument, I should mention that Tohei is also infamous for what is one of the poorest demonstrations of aikido (a video clip of which is posted somewhere on the web, but the computer I was surfing on at the time was unable to play it). I think it involved some overweight middle-age reporter who asked to have a go at Tohei, and the guy gave Tohei a lot of difficulty. As I recall, Tohei had to revert to some judo techniques to overcome him. Was this at an earlier stage of Tohei's career when he still hadn't perfected his abilities? Or is it the case that he had to be spot on to perform at a very high level, and anything less than that and his abilities declined drastically. Or is this the actual evidence of his abilities and the multiple attacker stuff is fake? I suspect the skeptics will quickly assume the latter. For myself, I think an alternative explanation is more likely, such as he started off by trying to take it easy on the guy and then got himself into a bad position. There was obviously no danger of that happening in the multiple judoka incident. In fact, as I recall, Tohei himself had little confidence in his abilities the first few times he was tricked or pressured into doing these types of demos.
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Old 05-01-2005, 09:33 PM   #74
Don_Modesto
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Re: Tohei throwing Judoka in Hawaii?

Quote:
Michael Neal wrote:
One thing I do not doubt is that Tohei was an amazing martial artist with tremendous skill, and I do not doubt the ability of skilled Aikidoka to fight off multiple attackers. It is just that osome of these stories sound too fantastic too me, I am not being critical of Aikido.
My sentiments, too.
Quote:
Charlie Laidlaw wrote:
What I've done below is type out Robert W. Smith's first-hand account of this incident (from Martial Musings):....It is noteworthy that this follows a passage in which Smith is extremely critical of aikido as a effective means of self-defence, so he's no starry-eyed believer in this stuff.
Yes. This gave me pause when I read it some years ago. Still, something this fantastical?--I want to see it for myself. Sorry.
Quote:
Before someone else brings it up as a counterargument, I should mention that Tohei is also infamous for what is one of the poorest demonstrations of aikido...it involved some overweight middle-age reporter who asked to have a go at Tohei, and the guy gave Tohei a lot of difficulty....Was this at an earlier stage of Tohei's career when he still hadn't perfected his abilities?
Actually, I hold Tohei in no little esteem precisely for bearing this humiliation. I don't doubt that he was holding back, the engagement was just too ridiculous. But he preferred to look foolish to hurting the old guy--don't doubt that myself and I respect him for such magnanimity

Thanks for taking the trouble for finding and posting that message.

Don J. Modesto
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Old 05-02-2005, 02:32 AM   #75
sanskara
 
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Re: Tohei throwing Judoka in Hawaii?

I've watched the unedited version of Tohei versus the reporter several times and a few things occur to me (in no particular order):

1. This wasn't his best work, but there are still times when I'm quite surprised he was able to regain composure and balance when it otherwise appeared to be lost.

2. According to several who were there (Yamada and Chiba made statements similar to the following, if I recall correctly) it was a public relations indulgence and not a conventional match.

Ueshiba allegedly forbade Tohei from doing any Aikido. That meant no throws, locks, pins, nothing that would hurt the guy, who'd been training politely in the dojo for about a week and was not skilled at ukemi.

Supposedly, Tohei had no idea what Ueshiba expected him to do and just kind of wandered out onto the mat not knowing what to expect. He looks a little lost in the beginning of the engagement, when you can see him waving his hands a bit in the air before the journalist moves in and pushes him off the mat.

Incidentally, later in the Rendezvous With Adventure video you can see Ueshiba struggle to put a Nikkyo on the other journalist, but his ability is not in doubt, and it's clear he's also being polite to the gaijin.

3. Tohei wears a hakama. Who wears a hakama to a match? Maybe he did so for the sake of the camera, but I suspect he didn't know exactly what he was in for; the words "rough and tumble" may not have been completely understood, as that's how the journalists referred to the engagement.

4. Also allegedly, Ueshiba was furious with Tohei after the ordeal because he did repeatedly throw the journalist down, violating the restrictions placed on him. But it's clear he did not use Aikido to do so, and maybe he reasoned this would annoy Ueshiba less.

But regardless of how one feels about Tohei's performance, he was never taken down and he did repeatedly throw the journalist, eventually pinning him, even if it wasn't pretty or what one would expect from a tenth Dan.

Unfortunately, it's my opinion that it is precisely this video and the fact that Tohei markets to a more "New Age" crowd (at least in Japan) that gives people cause to doubt the other accounts of his martial prowess. All I can offer is that I've personally seen some of his top students work guys quite a bit bigger and better than this journalist.

Shiohira of San Francisco, for example, used to get challenges from boxers, wrestlers, and whoever walked into the Austin Street dojo, and as far as I know or saw, he never lost. And Tohei only promoted him to sixth Dan--something about his family name confounded future promotions, but that's another thread.

On a more personal note, I can also think of at least a few occasions where I went easy on someone who was testing me out on the mat, because they were a beginner and I didn't want to hurt them before they understood what we were doing. All I can say is I'm glad those times, or the ones where I taught someone a lesson they clearly deserved, weren't captured on film for all time as indicative of my ability or personality.

Regards,
James Bostwick
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