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Old 04-17-2005, 12:33 PM   #26
Pauliina Lievonen
 
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Re: Self awareness

Quote:
Lynn Seiser wrote:
Okay, but which "self" are you aware of? The physical self or body? The mental psychological self, or mind? The social self, or role? Or the spiritual self?
There's a quote by Walter Carrington, an Alexander teacher trained by F.M.Alexander (an A.T: "shihan" I like to think ) that I love, and couldn't find now, where he's talking about your Self and then clarifies that he means the physical, spiritual, emotional, mental and whatever else you want to include into it self.

So I'd like to think that self awareness is awareness of myself as a whole. That includes a whole lotta stuff...

kvaak
Pauliina
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Old 04-17-2005, 08:54 PM   #27
Mark Bilson
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Re: Self awareness

Lynn
Self is all there is. No seperation, only connection. No duality only oneness.

Cheers
Mark Bilson
[url=http://www.roleystoneaiki.com]
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Old 04-18-2005, 04:27 PM   #28
SeiserL
 
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Re: Self awareness

Quote:
Mark Bilson wrote:
Self is all there is. No seperation, only connection. No duality only oneness.
We may just be talking semantics here, but IMHO, self implies a separation or distinction from other, or a duality. Even awareness implies a separation of one who is aware and what one is aware of.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 04-18-2005, 11:37 PM   #29
Mark Bilson
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Re: Self awareness

Lynn,
Your starting point originates with dualistic thought patterns from a position of imagined seperation. There is no "other". Only conscious awareness. This is the essence of Aikido. Understand this essence and you will be transformed. O'Sensei said to Robert Nadeau "if you knew what I knew you would be as good as me in 3 months". Aiki is a state of consciousness. An awareness that is beyond mind and thought.......

"I asked questions to myself and then understood. I have the universe inside me. Everything is in me. I am the universe itself so there is no me. Moreover, since I am the universe there is only me and no other" O'Sensei (Takemusu Aiki: Aikido journal #116)

In that realm of consciousness there is no such thing as an attack or defence, winning or losing, only harmony with what is. No duality, no seperation, only connection.

Cheers
Mark Bilson
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Old 04-19-2005, 09:04 PM   #30
RonRagusa
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Re: Self awareness

Quote:
Lynn Seiser wrote:
...self implies a separation or distinction from other, or a duality. Even awareness implies a separation of one who is aware and what one is aware of.
Is an eddy in the river or of the river? Is it distinguished from the river in any fundamental way other than my perception of it? If the configuration of the river changes and the eddy disappears has something been taken from the river; is the river lessened by the disappearance of the eddy? I am like that eddy; a temporary arrangement of matter/energy of the continuum. I come into existence and, after a time, cease to be and become another arrangement. The universe is not increased by my appearance nor lessened by my absence.

Self awareness allows me to ponder the larger totality of being around me but in no way separates me from it. For there to be a real distinction a boundary must exist. Where is the boundary that separates me from the universe? Can it be perceived, measured, touched or otherwise empirically proved? Does it have an effect on my surroundings so that it's existence may be inferred from the measurable behavior of other objects? If not then the implication of a "separation or distinction from other" cannot be a boundary in actuality. It must arise from something else.

The equating of self awareness and separation is learned. I have to be taught to differentiate myself from the universe, to individualize. Having learned this lesson has led to my perceived isolation from the universe. The road of Aikido is my path to reintegration with the universe.

All that makes me "me" is drawn to and concentrated at my center. The study of Aikido has taught me this on both intellectual and visceral levels. The truth of this can be felt on the mat during practice when the duality of uke and nage merge to unity.

Self awareness gives me the ability to choose how I will view my own existence in relation to the universe. I can opt to be integrated or separated. The important point is that the option is mine to choose.
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Old 04-20-2005, 09:07 AM   #31
SeiserL
 
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Re: Self awareness

Quote:
Ron Ragusa wrote:
Is an eddy in the river or of the river?
But is an eddy aware that its an eddy?

I agree with all that has been said about the importance of self-awareness and the benefits of it.

All I am saying is notice in all of our posts how many "I", "me", "it", and "self" are used as separate distinctions. IMHO, in finding the "true self" we lose the "self".

Words are never very adequate for this subject. My hunch is we are all saying the same thing, but what we are saying does not lend itself to words.

Thank you all for the stimulating discussion.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 04-21-2005, 12:06 PM   #32
John Boswell
 
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Re: Self awareness

Quote:
Lynn Seiser wrote:
But is an eddy aware that its an eddy?

I agree with all that has been said about the importance of self-awareness and the benefits of it.

All I am saying is notice in all of our posts how many "I", "me", "it", and "self" are used as separate distinctions. IMHO, in finding the "true self" we lose the "self".

Words are never very adequate for this subject. My hunch is we are all saying the same thing, but what we are saying does not lend itself to words.

Thank you all for the stimulating discussion.
It was an interesting quote, earlier, about what O'Sensei said to Robert Nadeau Sensei. I'm going to think on that.

As for your point, Lynn, of "I" , "me" , "it" and "self" all being seperate and distinct, I can see how perhaps others might be doing such. But "I" believe in "my" own case... when "I" am refereing to "me"... it's just me.

The mind controls the body and gets it to do what we want it to. Through voluntary and involuntary actions, I'm typing right now, reading and comprehending what is on the screen and hitting the "backspace" button whenever my body gets off the tracks from my thoughts. Thoughts are the concepts that my mind reads and interpretes and deals with them however is appropriate.

The problem is the relation of Self with the Mind and Body. See, "I" know what the technique is that I want to do. I've done them a number of times before. Not a problem. But now, the mind is trying to process this thought of a technique. If Sensei shows us a whole new way of doing a technique (and that has been happening a lot here lately) then my mind has to rework that concept and communicate it to the body to move. Now THERE is a really BIG problem...

My body sucks! LOL My knees are in poor shape, I'm recovering from a shoulder injury, I'm over-weight and have zero endurance... lots of problems. So now I have this broken body telling my mind all the problems it is having, the mind trying to re-grasp how the hell to do Ikkyo as it is no longer what it was 8 months ago... and ME, "Self" watching this symphony of chaos go straight to hell!

There is only one Self: it is Me, it is I and it is the being talking to you right this moment. The problem is everything Self has to communicate THROUGH to get Self's thoughts onto the keyboard in order to communicate MY thoughts.

True Self = One Self

But True Self has to communicate via imperfect tools (i.e. Mind and Body) and there in lies the confusion and problem)

In the movie, Last Samurai with Tom Cruise, one of the characters said "No mind"... that is what he was refering to: blow off all the garbage the mind and body are telling you and just DO it.

Easier said than done.

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Old 04-21-2005, 11:27 PM   #33
SeiserL
 
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Re: Self awareness

Quote:
John Boswell wrote:
In the movie, Last Samurai with Tom Cruise, one of the characters said "No mind"... that is what he was refering to: blow off all the garbage the mind and body are telling you and just DO it. Easier said than done.
No mind, no self?
No mind, true self?

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 04-22-2005, 04:12 PM   #34
John Boswell
 
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Re: Self awareness

No mind, True Self.

That's how I see it. Can you agree that You are not your body? and not the mind? That which is left is You... true self. That's the "soul" or "spirit" that we are all trying to reach and act from soley (souly? )

Anyhow... 2 more cents!
(I'm goin' broke!)

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Old 04-22-2005, 04:21 PM   #35
RonRagusa
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Re: Self awareness

I am more
than what I am.
There is something that is me
that is not made of me
but exists
beyond the limits of my being.
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Old 04-22-2005, 10:12 PM   #36
SeiserL
 
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Re: Self awareness

I am not my body.
I am not my mind.
I am not.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 04-22-2005, 10:29 PM   #37
RonRagusa
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Re: Self awareness

Quote:
Lynn Seiser wrote:
I am not my body.
I am not my mind.
I am not.
You are not.
I am.
Together
are we not
two sides of the same coin?
And is this not
how Aiki arises?
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Old 04-23-2005, 09:50 AM   #38
John Boswell
 
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Re: Self awareness

Quote:
Lynn Seiser wrote:
I am not my body.
I am not my mind.
I am not.
I finally realized why I have such an issue with statements such as this. "I am not." seems to communicate a devaluization of self, that we are nothing and worthy of nothing and have the value... of nothing. But there is a value to Life, so I fight back. But the Void that O'Sensei speaks of blending with... that is the "nothing" to which we all are "not."

Hard to explain, but I think I understand better what you are saying.

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Old 04-23-2005, 07:50 PM   #39
SeiserL
 
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Re: Self awareness

Quote:
John Boswell wrote:
But the Void that O'Sensei speaks of blending with... that is the "nothing" to which we all are "not."
Nothing, void?
No thing, without separate distinction?

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 04-26-2005, 10:30 AM   #40
bryce_montgomery
 
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Re: Self awareness

Quote:
John Boswell wrote:
I finally realized why I have such an issue with statements such as this. "I am not." seems to communicate a devaluization of self, that we are nothing and worthy of nothing and have the value... of nothing. But there is a value to Life, so I fight back. But the Void that O'Sensei speaks of blending with... that is the "nothing" to which we all are "not."

Hard to explain, but I think I understand better what you are saying.
If everything is nothing...doesn't that make nothing, everything...and therefore very important?...

Bryce
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Old 04-26-2005, 01:25 PM   #41
John Boswell
 
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Re: Self awareness

Quote:
Bryce Montgomery wrote:
If everything is nothing...doesn't that make nothing, everything...and therefore very important?...

Bryce
HA HA! Very interesting, Mr. Montgomery!

But doesn't that also mean that nothing is important, therefore everything is unimportant?!

Anyone else feel like they are climbing up M.C. Eischer's stairs? http://www.mcescher.com/Gallery/recogn-bmp/LW435.jpg

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Old 04-26-2005, 02:31 PM   #42
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Re: Self awareness

Just to chime in with my bit of the "OM"

the line that is in my head right now says:

To be aware of the world must originate from some singular point, one's self

The next thought:

Perhaps to be actively aware of your self may be to ignore aspects of the world normally observed in a fully aware state?

And the last thought:

To be aware of the self at the cost of being aware of the world in any way may (or must?) detract from the aforementioned locus of the self.

So what I am seeing is that the self exists to its fullest extent when it is aware of more than itself, and to focus on the self may deflate the truest existence of that self.

This is not to say that being aware of one's intelligence is opposed to this, that is a step in the right direction. While many of us may be aware of our being in the world, not many of us participate fully on a round the clock basis. I sure don't, but I'm trying.

Nice thread!

michael
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Old 04-26-2005, 02:36 PM   #43
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Re: Self awareness

Oh, and while the idea behind "No Mind" in Last Samurai may be easier thought than done, if I ever hear someone say that to me on the mat again, I may very well lose my mind, and my membership in one fell swoop...

wahoo,

michael.
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Old 04-27-2005, 12:20 PM   #44
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Re: Self awareness

Quote:
John Boswell wrote:
HA HA! Very interesting, Mr. Montgomery!

But doesn't that also mean that nothing is important, therefore everything is unimportant?!

Anyone else feel like they are climbing up M.C. Eischer's stairs? http://www.mcescher.com/Gallery/recogn-bmp/LW435.jpg
And everything is unimportant while nothing is important, making everything and nothing the same thing..."One with the universe"...

And yeah, the stairs keep getting longer...and more screwed up...

Bryce
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Old 05-07-2005, 05:16 AM   #45
malc anderson
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Re: Self awareness

Hi ya Every One, what a lot of different and yet similar ideas have been put forward. To me self-awareness is to shut down all physical and mental processes to experience the silence that is not quiet, to see with the eyes closed the inner light, the essence of all to experience KENSHO. Only when one has experienced this, can one KNOW what we are. Then self-awareness becomes the practice of being conscious of that inner experience and not the humdrum thoughts that pepper us all day long. It's not to be found in any religious or philosophical treatise just as a road sign pointing to a destination is not the destination it self. It is not only to be found by MA practitioners but any one who has breath and a longing to know, they could be and are blind, deaf, dumb, wheel chair bound, one arm, no arms,etc, because Kensho is beyond the physical world. The door way lies inside. As Socrates said ‘Know thy self ‘

‘Foster and polish the Warrior Spirit while serving in the world. Illuminate the path according to your INNER LIGHT.' All the best Malc
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Old 05-09-2005, 05:05 PM   #46
feck
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Confused Re: Self awareness

Too be still in any given moment..., and know, that your there.

feck
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Old 06-04-2005, 04:43 PM   #47
Mark Uttech
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Re: Self awareness

When you become self-aware, you will stop slamming doors.
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Old 06-07-2005, 04:40 PM   #48
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Thumbs down Re: Self awareness

Quote:
Mark Uttech wrote:
When you become self-aware, you will stop slamming doors.
I like it.

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