Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-01-2005, 03:16 PM   #26
creinig
Dojo: Yoshinkan Würzburg
Location: Würzburg (de)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 68
United Nations
Offline
Re: New Age Dojos

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
Google : aikido + "new age"

Results 1 - 10 of about 54,000 for aikido + "new age". (0.41 seconds)
Off topic, but kind of interesting:

Judo + "new age" is at "about 36,200".
Karate + "new age" generates "about 76,900" results,
"kung fu" + "new age" lists "about 83,800" and
boxing + "new age" yields "about 282,000" results.

Just FYI -- no valuation or anything else implied. If in doubt, read the disclaimer.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2005, 03:29 PM   #27
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
Offline
Re: New Age Dojos

that was sweet....
RT

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2005, 03:35 PM   #28
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
Offline
Re: New Age Dojos

Nice stats. I'd already done the boxing one and read a number of the entries... many of which had nothing to do with the "New Age" as we're talking about.
Quote:
Just FYI -- no valuation or anything else implied. If in doubt, read the disclaimer.
I'm afraid to click on the link because it might put more spyware on my computer!!! It's gotten so bad that I don't open pictures, go to suggested links, and I wouldn't open an attachment sent to me by my mom.

Mike
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2005, 03:38 PM   #29
Chris Birke
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 258
Offline
Re: New Age Dojos

"I think the irony is that often the more martial/realistic the training is, the more you can learn about yourself, grow, and all that other nice hippie stuff."

I just wanted to say that I wholeheartedly support that statement. So often people see violent training as the anthesis to spirituality.

A new age dojo, in my opinion, preeches the self same spiritual benifits that you expirence first hand in hard training. However, at the same time, they insulate you from hard training (or present plush stuffed animal cartoon versions of it) as though it were the same path.

I often discuss technique, and "reality training" but I do so because my end goals are mental; so often there is such a void of understanding this.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2005, 03:49 PM   #30
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
Offline
Re: New Age Dojos

Quote:
Chris Birke wrote:
So often people see violent training as the anthesis to spirituality. [snip]
I often discuss technique, and "reality training" but I do so because my end goals are mental; so often there is such a void of understanding this.
I agree. The real martial artists I know tend to be very practical and keyed in to common sense... and bluntly honest. If they say something, you can count on it. That doesn't stop the petty conflicts, unfortunately, because even the ones I consider almost saints have wound up whether they like it or not in the occasional conflicts. But hey... that's part of the human condition.

Mike
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2005, 03:55 PM   #31
Chris Li
 
Chris Li's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,085
United_States
Offline
Re: New Age Dojos

Quote:
Rob Liberti wrote:
Those are wonderful words for us to consider. Ironically, it is quite well known that Saotome sensei and Yamada sensei have had major conflicts about their different styles and schools of Aikido. So much so, that as a teacher under Saotome sensei - last I heard which was not too long ago - I am not supposed to attend USAF seminars - as if I could care at all what those two were arguing about. On the positive side, I do attend USAF seminars now and again because not everyone is stuck in the results of an argument that happened several decades ago.

Rob
FWIW, Saotome never personally gave me (or anyone else that I know) any problems about training or visiting Yamada or USAF events - and vice-versa. The only times that I got static or comments was from some of the students (on both sides). Funny how the students presume to treat people badly when the shihan on both sides are actually fairly cool about it.

Best,

Chris

  Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2005, 03:57 PM   #32
rob_liberti
Dojo: Shobu Aikido of Connecticut
Location: East Haven, CT
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,402
United_States
Offline
Re: New Age Dojos

Saotome never personally gave me (or anyone else that I know) any problems about training or visiting Yamada or USAF events either.

I had friends in some of the USAF dojos that actually had to lie on the entrace forms and say I was visiting from some other USAF dojo so I could attend their seminars. I can't explain it, but I have lived it.

Rob
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2005, 04:24 PM   #33
Misogi-no-Gyo
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 498
Offline
Re: New Age Dojos

Well, as usual I have a slightly different take on things. For me, new age dojos are dojos that have no direct connection back to O-Sensei. The idea of hard -vs- soft, talking -vs- no talking, hard falls -vs- soft falls or what have you is just typical of an outsider's view. When you hear this nonsense, just lean back and let the wind fly, as it is the irrelevant drivel of the overconfidently uninformed. And just to clarify, I don't mean that one has to not practice aikido to be considered an outsider. That is already obvious.

You see, if a visitor from one of those so-called "hard" dojos outsiders seem to think sets the standard by which Aikido should be judged, be it a tough dojo from the Yoshinkan, Yoseikan, Fugagukai or USAF, etc organizations, showed up at our school, we would be working on kokyu techniques. When training in these techniques, Uke receives a tremendous amount of energy, and Nage expends even more energy if he/she is trying to do them but doesn't know how. This is extremely tiring and exhausting on both a mental and emotional level. 99% of the time, said visitor would walk out thinking to themselves, "Hey, what was with all that new age crap (that I couldn't do and therefore must not need to do)?"

What does all this mean? Where would we be then? Exactly where we are now, and exactly where we were when O-Sensei was still alive and teaching - 99% of the people didn't understand it then, and 99% of the people don't understand it now. Instead they toss it aside and move towards techniques, philosophies, or ideas that fit their own definition of Aikido, regardless of what O-Sensei, himself was doing. See, in the new age, 99% of the people don't want to see, don't want to know, and don't want to understand, and so they don't. Then it becomes easy to walk around saying things like, hard -vs- soft, talking -vs- no talking, hard falls -vs- soft falls or what have you, and use it as some measure of what is good, bad.... blah, blah, blah. It just signifies now what it has always signified, that when you can't, or won't figure it out for yourself for whatever reason, just make something up and keep repeating it until you and those around you believe it. Then you get to have your moral superiority and your badass, mat-slamming, pre-war, blah-blah-blah dojo - attitude, cake and all.

As an example, there is no one who would have considered Tenshin Dojo, or Aikido Doshinokai (my former and present dojos) new age, in the least. However we focus on developing real kokyu power, expressed through all of our techniques, be they hard, soft or flowing. In my experience very few dojos even have a clue what kokyu is, and for that I am truly sorry because kokyu is at the center of O-Sensei's physical waza at the root level. For me, once you remove kokyu from your training, you are a new age dojo (i.e. a dojo in the new age of aikido) . By the way, I have no problem with these schools - as examples, dojos such as Yoshinkan, Yoseikan, Fugagukai, etc… because they have different goals, expressed by the founders of their individual systems. They are beautiful and unique offshoots inspired by certain aspects of O-Sensei's art. However, like Aikido is not Daito-Ryu Aiki Jujitsu, These other forms of Aikido are not O-Sensei's Aikido. They aren't supposed to be, so it is just a mistake when outsiders try to lump them all together to compare them.

However, how I arrive at my definition is only on a comparative basis, and that is only when outsiders put all of these things in one barrel, which is silly at every level. One has to look at the goal of the art form. The goal of aikido is not to be martially effective. Oh, "…but Aikido is a martial art, you moan? Yes, it is. However martial effectiveness is a byproduct of proper training, not the goal of it - period. If you ever have the chance to meet a true yogi master, or a Shaolin or Tibetan monk, this would become immediately clear should you be so deaf, dumb and blind (or just plain stpuid) as to have to ask them what is the goal of their path. We might consider their physical skills at the level of mastery, many of us only hoping to gain even a shadow of their talent and skill. However, ask them if their life's goal or even the goal of their training is to master martial arts, and you will quickly learn that it is not - for it is not. Their martial skills are a byproduct of their path, or may even be looked at as the tools of their craft. However, the tools are not the craft, just as the byproduct of walking one's path is not the path.

Aikido, is a path, and the dojos of the new age don't like this incontrovertible fact and that is why they removed it as the goal of their training, and that is why it is not aikido, and that is why it is silly, short sighted and a moot point to look at aikido from the outside and say, "You are a new age dojo because you don't focus on martial effectiveness. SILLY!

PS - As for all this don't shoot the messenger garbage - let's just kill the messenger, and stop pretending that isn't what used to happen, because it did, more often than not.



.

Last edited by Misogi-no-Gyo : 04-01-2005 at 04:29 PM.

I no longer participate in or read the discussion forums here on AikiWeb due to the unfair and uneven treatment of people by the owner/administrator.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2005, 04:52 PM   #34
Chris Li
 
Chris Li's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,085
United_States
Offline
Re: New Age Dojos

Quote:
Rob Liberti wrote:
Saotome never personally gave me (or anyone else that I know) any problems about training or visiting Yamada or USAF events either.

I had friends in some of the USAF dojos that actually had to lie on the entrace forms and say I was visiting from some other USAF dojo so I could attend their seminars. I can't explain it, but I have lived it.

Rob
These days, with so many people practicing, it's becoming increasingly common to limit the number of participants at any given event (ASU does this too) - often by giving priority to members of your own organization. Don't know if that's what happened, but it seems within the realm of possibility.

Best,

Chris

  Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2005, 04:48 PM   #35
Brion Toss
Dojo: Aikido Port Townsend
Location: Port Townsend, Wa.
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 104
Offline
Re: New Age Dojos

Hello,
"New Age" is nowadays mostly used as a pejorative, a way to put someone down or shut them up without having to go to the bother of assembling a convincing argument. Like saying "whatever", or "You're just being PC", it's shorthand for "I don't agree with/like/want to deal with the you on the topic at hand."
"New Age" was originally used, as I understand it, in a positive sense, to describe a complex of spiritual practices and ideas that some people hoped would usher in a new age of harmony, enlightenment, etc. Perhaps inevitably, some of these practices and ideas were on the ludicrously naive or self-deluding side, so other people had some easy targets, and great opportunities for slamming the whole concept.
But some of those ideas have survived, and a good thing, I think. Human history is too largely a tale of woe, and any work that anyone can do to make the future less horrific than the past would be welcome. I study Aikido in large part because my understanding is that Ueshiba the elder was one of those people working to improve things, and not one of the deluded ones, either.
If Aikido is concerned primarily with self-improvement, and with inculcating alternative spiritual ideas in its practitioners, the entire spectrum of the art can be (and has been) classified as New Age. What I think lends substance to the negative tone of that usage is the kind of relatively rare dojo where the spiritual side has been utterly distorted and the martial side utterly trivialized (note: I am using the word "side" to make a useful distinction, though I believe that such a distinction is ultimately illusory).
Trouble is, as others have noted, a dojo might be practicing excellent, as-O-Sensei-meant-it-to-be Aikido, and still look, to ignorant or opinionated eyes, like one of the places that are difficult to distinguish from interprative dance, except that interpretive dance is more martially effective.
That seems to leave two realizations. First, as Raven sensei pointed out, 99% of people won't get it, no matter what we're practicing. We just might need to learn to shrug and adopt a mysterious air when someone tars us with a contemptuously-intended "New Age" label. And second, we can't be sure that we necessarily get it either; if it's easy, if anything at all rings of rationalization, if it doesn't temper us, it probably ain't Aikido.
Yours,
Brion Toss
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2005, 05:33 PM   #36
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
Offline
Re: New Age Dojos

Quote:
Brion Toss wrote:
"New Age" is nowadays mostly used as a pejorative, [snip] "New Age" was originally used, as I understand it, in a positive sense, to describe a complex of spiritual practices and ideas that some people hoped would usher in a new age of harmony, enlightenment, etc.
It meant the "Age of Aquarius", Brion. In other words, whether "pejorative" or not, it referred to people who believed in Astrology, Crystal Vibrations, Peace-Love-and-Harmony, etc. Look at how many people are presenting Aikido, a martial art, as a "Way of Harmony". The tag "New Age" is quite appropriate, Brion. Step up to it in a manly fashion.
Quote:
Perhaps inevitably, some of these practices and ideas were on the ludicrously naive or self-deluding side, so other people had some easy targets, and great opportunities for slamming the whole concept.
So why not make the case logically how people who can't really do a martial art, but insist it isn't important in Aikido to do so, are correct. Give us the scenario how O-Sensei would have welcomed them as brethren so that we can all consider it. Fair enough?
Quote:
But some of those ideas have survived, and a good thing, I think. Human history is too largely a tale of woe, and any work that anyone can do to make the future less horrific than the past would be welcome. I study Aikido in large part because my understanding is that Ueshiba the elder was one of those people working to improve things, and not one of the deluded ones, either.
I don't have a problem with the views you have, Brion, but you have to sell them to me first... I tend to be a sceptic. Explain to me how O-Sensei in his dotage preached peace and harmony yet how he was so irascible that many people tried to keep him away from Hombu dojo and to avoid his anger and outrages. I.e., my position is that he was quite human and not a Jesus-like figure preaching on the Mount.
Quote:
We just might need to learn to shrug and adopt a mysterious air when someone tars us with a contemptuously-intended "New Age" label. And second, we can't be sure that we necessarily get it either; if it's easy, if anything at all rings of rationalization, if it doesn't temper us, it probably ain't Aikido.
Good points. :^)

Mike
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2005, 06:34 PM   #37
Mashu
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 106
Offline
Re: New Age Dojos

Description of Your First Name of: Brion
Although the name Brion creates the urge to be reliable and responsible, we emphasize that it limits your versatility and scope, tuning you to technical details. This name, when combined with the last name, can frustrate happiness, contentment, and success, as well as cause health weaknesses in the elimination system, and through worry and mental tension.

Your first name of Brion has given you a practical, logical, analytical approach to life and a great deal of patience. You enjoy working at anything of a mechanical or technical nature, and believe that what is worth doing is worth doing well. When you are interested in a project, you concentrate all your thoughts on it and do not appreciate being interrupted. This name creates a deliberate and methodical way of thinking and speaking; it takes you time to learn but, once you have mastered a subject, you do not forget it.


[Click here for an analysis of your complete name]


Watch an instructional video that explains "How?" and "Why?" your name creates your mind.

http://www.kabalarians.com/cfm/your.cfm

Step right up! Step right up....
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2005, 07:59 PM   #38
RonRagusa
Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 679
United_States
Offline
Re: New Age Dojos

Because a teacher does not always practice what he teaches does not invalidate or repudiate the teaching. If it did, all ethics professors would have to be perfectly ethical, all religous teachers would have to be without sin. Not practical or attainable.

No one is trying to elevate O-Sensei to the level of a demi-god. But to deny that the main principles of the universe as seen by O-Sensei are harmony and love and that Aikido is built upon this foundation is to put ones head in the sand and say 'what I can't see doesn't exist.'

Reference Aikido Complete by Yoshimitsu Yamada page13.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2005, 08:57 PM   #39
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
Offline
Re: New Age Dojos

Quote:
Ron Ragusa wrote:
....to deny that the main principles of the universe as seen by O-Sensei are harmony and love and that Aikido is built upon this foundation is to put ones head in the sand and say 'what I can't see doesn't exist.'

Reference Aikido Complete by Yoshimitsu Yamada page13.
There's nothing I can say to you, Ron. We have different knowledges and perspectives on martial arts, what "harmony" means in the Asian sense, and in our knowledge of Yamada and his history. One thing for sure... whatever my position and perspectives are, I'm not trying to teach something and call it "Aikido", so I don't have to justify what I do and what I charge money for. My interest is in the working of the ki/kokyu mechanics.

Mike
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2005, 12:12 AM   #40
Lorien Lowe
Dojo: Northcoast Aikido
Location: California
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 289
Offline
Re: New Age Dojos

Quote:
Brion Toss wrote:
Trouble is, as others have noted, a dojo might be practicing excellent, as-O-Sensei-meant-it-to-be Aikido, and still look, to ignorant or opinionated eyes, like one of the places that are difficult to distinguish from interprative dance, except that interpretive dance is more martially effective.
iirc there's a section in _Angry White Pajamas_ in which the narrator goes to see the doshu and concludes, 'they're faking it!'

-LK
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2005, 07:41 AM   #41
sunny liberti
 
sunny liberti's Avatar
Dojo: Shobu Aikido
Location: Connecticut
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 68
United_States
Offline
Re: New Age Dojos

Quote:
I.e., my position is that he was quite human and not a Jesus-like figure preaching on the Mount.
My recollection was that Jesus was rather a bad-ass as well... Remember his outrage at the temple?

I fail to see how anger or outrage is entirely outside of the scope of nature and harmony. Seem like a necessary force in many situations to me.

Sunny

A brave man dies once; cowards are always dying." --Moanahonga, Ioway
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2005, 08:24 AM   #42
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
Offline
Re: New Age Dojos

Quote:
Lorien Lowe wrote:
iirc there's a section in _Angry White Pajamas_ in which the narrator goes to see the doshu and concludes, 'they're faking it!'

-LK
I personally take everything the author said in that book with a LARGE grain of salt. He was something of a dilettante...although I did enjoy the book, I found through meeting some of the people he described that he was completely off base in reading people. So I wouldn't take anything he said about the training at hombu seriously.

Likewise, I know some in the yoshinkan who look down their nose at the aikikai a bit. I don't take that view point from them all that seriously either. I've seen good dojo, bad dojo, so-so dojo in just about all styles. I've learned to look at things case by case, as Meik Skoss says, and not to lump them all together.

Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2005, 08:27 AM   #43
Dazzler
Dojo: Templegate Dojo, bristol & Bristol North Aikido Dojo
Location: Bristol
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 638
England
Offline
Re: New Age Dojos

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
There's nothing I can say to you, Ron. We have different knowledges and perspectives on martial arts, what "harmony" means in the Asian sense, and in our knowledge of Yamada and his history. One thing for sure... whatever my position and perspectives are, I'm not trying to teach something and call it "Aikido", so I don't have to justify what I do and what I charge money for. My interest is in the working of the ki/kokyu mechanics.

Mike
Right thats it...I need a holiday....

I agree with Mike to a certain extent here an that the interpretation of harmony has caused a lot of the misconceptions about aikido and the way it is practiced.

We practice to unify yin / yang , positive and negative energies.

Our ideal is the blending of these to create a form where the equal balance of these universal forces produces seemingly effortless technique as a manifestation of ki

So I believe.

I've personally interpreted this balance as 'harmony' rather than any lifestyle directive.

Its a bit of a highbrow explanation....we do also practice with a leaning towards a philosophy where not fighting is considered more ethical than fighting....but at the same time work on the base that if there has to be a fight, start it and finish it.

So I probably agree with Ron too..

Isn't that nice.

D (retires to the fence.....)

Last edited by Dazzler : 04-04-2005 at 08:29 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2005, 09:37 AM   #44
ruthmc
Dojo: Wokingham Aikido
Location: Reading, UK
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 393
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: New Age Dojos

What does being a good fighter have to do with being a good martial artist?

I've seen some very good fighters in kindergarten, but I've yet to find a good martial artist there

To me a good martial artist is a disciplined person, not just the person who can hit hardest and damn the consequences.

Ruth
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2005, 10:04 AM   #45
sunny liberti
 
sunny liberti's Avatar
Dojo: Shobu Aikido
Location: Connecticut
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 68
United_States
Offline
Re: New Age Dojos

Ruth, that reminds me of seeing a "Creative Breaking Championship" on TV a few years ago. The winner dislocated his shoulder delivering the winning strike. He looked like a goofball accepting the trophy with a dangling right arm. I thought that if there are no rules that you have to be fully intact after breaking whatever, then why not just shoot someone out of a cannon head first? I'm sure they'd win, seeing as it's darn creative and certain to break stuff.

My point is that "new-age" haters seem to think these types of competitions are "martial" as they exhibit a lot of stationary ki power, and that aikido is not. I don't get it.

Last edited by sunny liberti : 04-04-2005 at 10:09 AM.

Sunny

A brave man dies once; cowards are always dying." --Moanahonga, Ioway
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2005, 10:15 AM   #46
happysod
Dojo: Kiburn, London, UK
Location: London
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 899
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: New Age Dojos

Quote:
What does being a good fighter have to do with being a good martial artist
Wouldn't it be reasonable to consider a good martial artist should also be a reasonable fighter?

How I always think of it is in terms of sports - a good coach may be able to teach the sport and train superb practitioners without necessarily being anything more than average, certainly not a good proponent of their sport.

In a similar vein, you can get martial arts teachers who just blow me away with their technical panache and understanding, but who to be frank are indifferent fighters. I'd call them good martial arts teachers, but not necessarily good martial artists.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2005, 10:30 AM   #47
Bronson
 
Bronson's Avatar
Dojo: Seiwa Dojo and Southside Dojo
Location: Battle Creek & Kalamazoo, MI
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,677
Offline
Re: New Age Dojos

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
By 'soft' (man, I hate that term), I meant *very* relaxed upper body, movement concentrated in the hara, not much easily visible emphasis on atemi, not much easily visible attention to form. Feels like not much power, looks like not much power (until uke hits the mat, that is).
Hey, we're a "New Age" dojo....yeah

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2005, 10:44 AM   #48
sunny liberti
 
sunny liberti's Avatar
Dojo: Shobu Aikido
Location: Connecticut
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 68
United_States
Offline
Re: New Age Dojos

Quote:
Wouldn't it be reasonable to consider a good martial artist should also be a reasonable fighter?
Yes,very much so. But she said it the other way around.

Sunny

A brave man dies once; cowards are always dying." --Moanahonga, Ioway
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2005, 11:00 AM   #49
happysod
Dojo: Kiburn, London, UK
Location: London
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 899
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: New Age Dojos

Sunny, I did notice that, but
a) I wanted to see if Ruth was discounting fighting as part of a martial art or not (going from her previous posts, I'd presume not).
b) I wouldn't necessarily not call a good fighter a good martial artist, unlike Ruth - a standing joke is "black belt pool cue/bar stool" used to refer to someone who "just knows how to fight".

I guess I'm less sanguine about the inherent difference between a damn good brawler and a martial artists - and if someone mentions budo I'd like to point out that western fighting arts are also called martial arts and in spite the Marquis of bloody (I don't like to lose) Queensbury's best efforts there is no underlying warrior ethos to a lot of the traditional arts.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2005, 05:58 PM   #50
Lorien Lowe
Dojo: Northcoast Aikido
Location: California
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 289
Offline
Re: New Age Dojos

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
I personally take everything the author said in that book with a LARGE grain of salt.
Actually that was sort of my point. He called it wishy-washy or fake because he didn't understand it.

I have trained with yudansha who seem floppy and ineffective, but I think takes some hubris to judge someone, or to judge a dojo, before one has been on the receiving end of their technique. Labeling something 'new age' and therefore dismissable is a cheap way to get out of having to find out for oneself what is actually happening. Sometimes a dojo really is wishy-washy, but if one accepts the Justinian principle of 'innocent until proven guilty,' then the onus is on the accuser to actually try the art.

-LK
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Aikido of Northern VA Seminars - Doran-sensei in Northern Virginia, March 2015



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Philadelphia Dojos Testimonials MarqueFranklin-Williams General 11 01-24-2008 08:46 AM
Two Dojos in One (...by Ronco (tm)) Magma General 28 03-10-2005 04:01 PM
Dojos in N. Japan - need advice! Adam Garrison General 4 08-27-2003 10:13 AM
Is there an 'intensity' rating for dojos? jaxonbrown Techniques 3 08-14-2002 10:04 AM
Going to other dojos Kat.C General 18 03-18-2002 02:57 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:20 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate