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Old 03-10-2005, 09:00 PM   #26
Chuck.Gordon
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Re: I am not a samurai

Quote:
Thomas Dixon wrote:
No I'm not. I'm on the Budo/Bujutsu page...Bushido is the code of honor by which the samurai lived, fought and died.
The WHAT page? URL?

There was no "Bushido" ... there were various codes through the ages, from place to place and from clan to clan. Nothing monolithic.

Bushido, as it is (sort of) understood today was really pretty much a creation of latter-day samurai (who hated losing their status during Meiji) and wannabe samurai (who haven;t much of a clue what it was like to BE samurai).

Don't even quote Hagakure or Nitobe's 'Bushido' to me either. Both are flawed in many ways and neither describe anything resembling what the warrior class was like for most of Japanese history.

If you want to separate your aikido from the nasty samurai, go ahead, but do so in the knowledge that you are making some very weird decisions based on less that flawless info.

Ueshiba, in fact, spent most of his life trying to BE samurai (even had photos taken of himself with two swords and wearing mon) ... when, in fact, he came from a non-samurai family and spent most of his budo career post-Meiji, meaning the samurai had gone away anyway.

Please, before you dismiss budo so off-handedly, do your research, and that's likely not going to be coming from a cursory glance at a website that may or may not be written by anyone who really has a clue.

Aikido is budo, aikido is jujutsu. Bushido is, largely, a fantasy.

Chuck

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Old 03-10-2005, 09:03 PM   #27
Greg Jennings
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Re: I am not a samurai

Thomas,

I really wouldn't be using something I Googled up on the web to lecture to people that have been *lived* Budo, Aikido and other forms, for longer than you've been alive.

Sincerely,

Last edited by Greg Jennings : 03-10-2005 at 09:06 PM.

Greg Jennings
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Old 03-10-2005, 09:23 PM   #28
NagaBaba
 
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Re: I am not a samurai

This thread woke me up, I was so tired. Thanks for good humor.
Me I'm half samurai I have only one sword. My wife is full samurai, she is from noble family, has a mon, has two swords ....I hope one day we can play samurai family in tv.

ps. editing to add: yes, aikido is a budo

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
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Old 03-10-2005, 10:20 PM   #29
Sue Hammerich
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Re: I am not a samurai

Quote:
Michael Rann wrote:
I am a ninja
I am the walrus...koo koo ko chew...
Actually, to David, the originator- RIGHT ON for being able to surf several times a week Awesome; I am envious.
And man, there have been some GREAT quotes here...I especially liked the water/ice one. Keep up the great correspondence, everyone and have a great weekend!

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Old 03-10-2005, 11:18 PM   #30
dan guthrie
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Re: I am not a samurai

Quote:
David Evans wrote:
I am not a samurai.

I live on the east coast of Australia, and am never far from the beach. I surf. I fish. I look at fauna. I earn decent money, and can afford three classes a week.

I do not practice aikido because it brings me closer to "God" (whatever).

Can't people just "do"?
Try looking at this a different way.
You are a samurai.
You are a role model.

Now, what kind are you going to be? This is the only choice you have.
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Old 03-11-2005, 12:43 AM   #31
p00kiethebear
 
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Re: I am not a samurai

Samurai literally means "one who serves" doesn't it?

Feel free to flame me if im terribly off the mark here but this is how i see it.

One who serves, as in one who gives service to others. Our teachers give service to us. Our policemen do (or should.) As children our parents do us service.

I'm not going to go so far as to say these people are samurai but... Well i don't know where i was going with this i'm waaaaay to tired... Anyone want to finish up for me?

"Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity"
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Old 03-11-2005, 12:46 AM   #32
Rupert Atkinson
 
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Re: I am not a samurai

I'm not a Samurai either. And never thought I was. Does anyone actually think they are?

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Old 03-11-2005, 12:52 AM   #33
Misogi-no-Gyo
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Re: I am not a samurai

Quote:
Peter Rehse wrote:
And of course Aikido is a form of jujutsu.
It is?

I no longer participate in or read the discussion forums here on AikiWeb due to the unfair and uneven treatment of people by the owner/administrator.
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Old 03-11-2005, 07:11 AM   #34
Nick Simpson
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Re: I am not a samurai

I never understood the fascination with samurai and aikidoka. Pirates are where its at! ARRRR!

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
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Old 03-11-2005, 08:00 AM   #35
James Finley
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Re: I am not a samurai

Me thinks I'd rather be a surfer than a Samurai! James (who learned to surf in Australia and has seriously considered immigrating there more than once--especially after the last election).
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Old 03-11-2005, 09:04 AM   #36
dan guthrie
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Talking Re: I am not a samurai

Quote:
Nick Simpson wrote:
I never understood the fascination with samurai and aikidoka. Pirates are where its at! ARRRR!


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Old 03-11-2005, 11:39 AM   #37
ryujin
 
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Re: I am not a samurai

Quote:
Thomas Dixon wrote:
I would like to state that Aikido is not budo...
I seem to recall that O'sensei called the art aikibudo before switching to aikido in the early 1940s.

Carl Bilodeau
Jiyūshin-ryū AikiBudō
Renshinkan

"Yield to temptation it may not pass your way again." - Robert Heinlein
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Old 03-11-2005, 01:34 PM   #38
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: I am not a samurai

I don't really care if it is budo or not. What I do daily seems to work and kick the crap out of most everyone I train with and I call it aikido. Not that I go around kicking the crap out of my training partners, but they are 18 to 20 year old infantry soldiers who are full of it. Who I would classify as modern budoka.

If it works use it. Meets my criteria, but don't really care if you think it is or isn't.
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Old 03-11-2005, 01:55 PM   #39
David Humm
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Re: I am not a samurai

I'm not a speaker of Japanese however, I've had the word BUDO explained to me by a Japanese national (from my recolection of that longer converstion) BU is made up of an ideogram representing two crossed yari and, the context of this relates to the resolution of conflict (anyone expand on this please) Thus I have always understood the meaning of BUDO to mean the way of conflict resolution through martial ways. (no direct references to bushido or bushi, or class driven specific arts)

I may be wrong but I also understood our art was once called "Aikibudo" (how long or when I don't know)

Dave
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Old 03-11-2005, 02:01 PM   #40
Chris Li
 
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Re: I am not a samurai

Quote:
Dave Humm wrote:
I'm not a speaker of Japanese however, I've had the word BUDO explained to me by a Japanese national (from my recolection of that longer converstion) BU is made up of an ideogram representing two crossed yari and, the context of this relates to the resolution of conflict (anyone expand on this please) Thus I have always understood the meaning of BUDO to mean the way of conflict resolution through martial ways. (no direct references to bushido or bushi, or class driven specific arts)
Peter Goldsbury made a good analysis of the kanji for budo at:

http://www.aikiweb.com/language/goldsbury1.html

Best,

Chris

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Old 03-11-2005, 02:38 PM   #41
raul rodrigo
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Re: I am not a samurai

Thomas should either do a lot more reading or a lot more convincing. If even the founder of the art called it a budo (aikibudo), he's going to need a hell of a lot more ammunition to convince the rest of us otherwise.
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Old 03-11-2005, 03:01 PM   #42
Don_Modesto
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Re: I am not a samurai

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote:
My wife is full samurai, she is from noble family, has a mon, has two swords....
Is she from Jamaica? Everyone in Jamaica seems to have a "mon", mon!

back acha!

Don J. Modesto
St. Petersburg, Florida
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Old 03-11-2005, 09:57 PM   #43
NagaBaba
 
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Re: I am not a samurai

Quote:
Don J. Modesto wrote:
Is she from Jamaica? Everyone in Jamaica seems to have a "mon", mon!

back acha!
Non, she isn't from Jamaica, but wait, wasn't Donnovan born in Jamaica?

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
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Old 03-11-2005, 10:38 PM   #44
p00kiethebear
 
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Re: I am not a samurai

Donovan Waite sensei is from England.

"Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity"
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Old 03-12-2005, 02:21 AM   #45
George S. Ledyard
 
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Re: I am not a samurai

Quote:
I'm not a speaker of Japanese however, I've had the word BUDO explained to me by a Japanese national (from my recolection of that longer converstion) BU is made up of an ideogram representing two crossed yari and, the context of this relates to the resolution of conflict (anyone expand on this please) Thus I have always understood the meaning of BUDO to mean the way of conflict resolution through martial ways. (no direct references to bushido or bushi, or class driven specific arts)

I may be wrong but I also understood our art was once called "Aikibudo" (how long or when I don't know)

Dave
It was Aikibudo from the early thirties (when O-sensei stopped giving out Daito Ryu Certificates) until around 1942 or so when the term Aikido was given to the art. Aikido and the other martial arts are definitely considered to be modern Budo by both the Japanese and most senior foreign practitioners. Every teacher I have trained with considers it to be Budo although O-Sensei had some ideas about redefining what he meant by Budo.

George S. Ledyard
Aikido Eastside
Bellevue, WA
Aikido Eastside
AikidoDvds.Com
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Old 03-12-2005, 12:20 PM   #46
Avery Jenkins
 
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Re: I am not a samurai

It seems like we are getting some regurged, and somewhat confused, Donn Draeger from Mr. Dixon.


Avery Jenkins(sitting on the sidelines with a grumpy acromioclavicular joint separation)
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Old 03-12-2005, 12:29 PM   #47
senshincenter
 
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Re: I am not a samurai

I also think we should realize that for most folks, history, especially Aikido history, is marked by some sort of eruption of genius and/or innate agency. The identiy of Aikido is so intimately tied for the layman-historian with the myth of the Founder and the cult of genius that for many of us it is almost impossible to practice the art today without having an ever growing and ever false sense of distinction. I am reminded of that one paper by Shibata that suggested folks should opt to use the word "release" over the word "nage." That paper, at its structural level, was filled with the same assumptions that are being upheld here in the "distinction" between "Budo" and "Aikido".

David M. Valadez
Visit our web site for articles and videos. Senshin Center - A Place for Traditional Martial Arts in Santa Barbara.
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Old 03-12-2005, 12:37 PM   #48
tedehara
 
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Re: I am not a samurai

Quote:
Shaun Ravens wrote:
It is?
"Is It Not? AARRR!!" from The Pirates of Kyushu by Gilbert and Sullivan

It is not practice that makes perfect, it is correct practice that makes perfect.
About Ki
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Old 03-12-2005, 02:46 PM   #49
Don_Modesto
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Re: I am not a samurai

Quote:
Shaun Ravens wrote:
It is?
IIRC, both Threadgill and Friday have weighed in on this (not that sure about Threadgill), should you want to do the searches.

Hope this helps.

Don J. Modesto
St. Petersburg, Florida
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Old 03-12-2005, 06:26 PM   #50
PeterR
 
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Re: I am not a samurai

Quote:
Don J. Modesto wrote:
IIRC, both Threadgill and Friday have weighed in on this (not that sure about Threadgill), should you want to do the searches.
Not to mention others of far greater distinction.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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