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Old 02-25-2005, 03:22 PM   #1
Mikkel Ravn
 
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Weights

Hi

I have no experience with traning with weights, and I have yet to ask my sensei for his opinion as well.

There are hardly any sites on the web, and the few ones out there only states the obvious(quote: "The weights make it heavier to train")...

All I know is that it's an ancient training method, and that it should increase speed, power, strength and balance.

However I would like some opinions and theories. Does it fit a martial art like Aikido? Will it imrove some techniques but make you worse at others? etc.

And there are like 100 different kinds of weights. Weight vests, ankle weights, arm weights, etc.


If it's something that's really gonna improve your techniques, I'll not hesitate 1 second to get ahold of some weights.

So please enlighten me.

Thanks

Thanks
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Old 02-25-2005, 04:33 PM   #2
Jordan Steele
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Re: Weights

I am not sure what type of weights you are referring to. Weight training in a gym or some other type of weights. If you are interested in a strength training program, it is a really good idea and will improve your Aikido along with general health and fitness. Just remember to stretch.
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Old 02-25-2005, 06:16 PM   #3
SeiserL
 
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Re: Weights

IMHO, and I do lift, weights help your strength fitness, but not necessarily your technique. If you must work with resistance training, just pick a bigger uke. ;-) LOL

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 02-25-2005, 06:37 PM   #4
bkedelen
 
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Re: Weights

Weight bearing exercise can dramatically decrease your chances of injury in the dojo. Naturally, lifting heavy weights with few repetitions reduces your flexibility and increases your chance of injury. Regular, diverse weight training with light weights and more repetitions is the best way to go. From a scientific standpoint, such exercise is 100% proven to increase bone density, help prevent joint injury, decrease body fat, increase metabolism, and even positively effect brain chemistry. It also does not make you "bulky", does not cause you to gain much/any weight, and still allows you to conduct yourself very gracefully in the dojo. From my perspective as a relatively small guy, I LOVE that I no longer get those annoying minor wrist and shoulder injuries at seminars. Increased muscle density definitely helps you absorb the occasional body atemi as well. I began to lift hoping to improve my posture and worked my way up to the heaviest amount of weight that still lets me touch my shoulders (for me between 10 and 20 pounds, probably varies for others). I demand that my weight training not interfere with my flexibility and I assure any doubters that it does not.
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Old 02-26-2005, 04:32 AM   #5
mj
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Re: Weights

I also started a weights routine in October last year, and now do a 35-45 minute workout Monday to Friday mornings (and a sauna Friday night).

I was getting fed up up annoying little groin strains, hamstring pulls, the odd knock and so on....that kept me off training for a week or more each time.

Having said that I turned 40 last year so the 'old bones' have been taking a bit of a knock for the last 30 years. And it's a nice way to start the day...I take the 10 minute walk up to the gym in my shorts trainers and t-shirt...snow, rain, wind or sun. My attempt at misogi

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Old 02-26-2005, 04:59 AM   #6
paw
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Re: Weights

Quote:
Benjamin Edelen wrote:
Naturally, lifting heavy weights with few repetitions reduces your flexibility and increases your chance of injury. Regular, diverse weight training with light weights and more repetitions is the best way to go.
Absolutely untrue. Range of motion is the key, not load or number of repetitions.

Research has shown that full range resistance training is the best way of developing functional flexibility, and Olympic weightlifters have been shown to equal or outperform top sprinters in sprints of up to 30 meters. They have also been shown to be second only to gymnasts in overall flexibility.

Consult "The Facts and Fallacies of Fitness" by Mel Siff.


Regards,

Paul
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Old 02-26-2005, 05:52 AM   #7
Mikkel Ravn
 
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Re: Weights

wait wait wait, I'm not talking about working out by lifting weight or going to a gym or something like that..

I'm talking about adding weights to your bodyparts during the Aikido training.

Sorry for not clarifying it enough.
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Old 02-26-2005, 10:54 AM   #8
paw
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Re: Weights

Quote:
Mikkel Ravn wrote:
I'm talking about adding weights to your bodyparts during the Aikido training.
In other words, a weight vest.

While in theory it would be an interesting and perhaps worthwhile activity, in practice, I see a number of issues:

Keeping the vest stable when rolling or falling.

The danger to your partners when striking at you.

The potential damage to you and the floor when falling or rolling. (In my mind, this is the biggest issue. You're going to be landing on a number of oddly shaped iron rods.)


If I were the chief instructor, I wouldn't allow it. The potential for injury seems much too high considering the nature of most aikido classes.

Regards,

Paul
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Old 02-26-2005, 04:04 PM   #9
bkedelen
 
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Re: Weights

Paul, since your musculature becomes large enough to interfere with your full range of movements, it is not mathematically possible for you to have become more flexible. If I lifted even five more pounds I would not be able to touch my own shoulders. It will be hard for you to convince me that not being able to touch my own shoulders is good for me in any way. I understand that athletes such as football players do lift very heavy weights and are still incredibly athletic, sprinting, jumping, and effectively avoiding injury on the field. Nevertheless, I believe that like all other things relating to life and Aikido, weight training should be done in moderation. I find it impossible to believe that anything done to an extreme will contribute to my mental or physical health. I do not presume to tell others how to train, merely present why I am not convinced at all.
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Old 02-26-2005, 04:21 PM   #10
Mikkel Ravn
 
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Re: Weights

Quote:
Paul Watt wrote:
Keeping the vest stable when rolling or falling.

The danger to your partners when striking at you.
Yeah I have thought about those issues as well. And also agree that it should be very important to have a stable vest.

It would be nice if I could find a vest that merely felt like a t-shirt but gave me the same effects, but that's just wishful thinking.

The biggest problem would be if a vest would force bad habits onto me (doing ukemi in a new way because parts of the vest would irritate me when doing properly ukemi).

That's why it would be great to hear someone who has actually tried out such a vest during his/her Aikido training.
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Old 02-26-2005, 07:43 PM   #11
paw
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Re: Weights

Quote:
Benjamin Edelen wrote:
.......I do not presume to tell others how to train, merely present why I am not convinced at all.
I am not presuming to tell you anything other than science has disproven your inital assertion concerning flexibility and weight training. You are free to do whatsoever you like and believe whatsoever you desire. It matters little to me.

I strongly encourage you to read The Facts and Fallacies of Fitness and draw your own conclusions on the validity of Dr. Siff's work.

Quote:
Mikkel Ravn wrote:
That's why it would be great to hear someone who has actually tried out such a vest during his/her Aikido training.
I don't believe such a person exists. If you desire to improve your athleticism and as a result improve your aikido, I firmly believe there are much better ways of doing than using a weight vest.

Regards,

Paul
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Old 03-09-2005, 01:36 PM   #12
aikido_dragon
 
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Re: Weights

I'm very big into weight training, but I'd agree with everyone else. I don't see how the weights your talking about will help you at all. You'll see much better results by strength training in the gym.
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Old 03-09-2005, 07:13 PM   #13
Keith R Lee
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Re: Weights

I haven't in awhile but I used to do the Yoshinkan kihon dosa with 5 pound weights in each hand. Elbow power, pivots, etc. Pretty good work out. Always felt good to do freehand them afterwards too. Real powerful feeling.

Keith Lee
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Old 03-09-2005, 07:26 PM   #14
stuartjvnorton
 
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Re: Weights

Quote:
Mikkel Ravn wrote:
wait wait wait, I'm not talking about working out by lifting weight or going to a gym or something like that..

I'm talking about adding weights to your bodyparts during the Aikido training.

Sorry for not clarifying it enough.

I'd steer clear of it.
It's not going to help you gain strength, but will definitely put your sense of balance out, as well as how you prepare for and judge air time.
How can you accurately judge the forces and vectors involved when you have external ones at play as well?
Unless you plan calling for a preliminary cease fire to strap on your weights when the sh!t hits the fan...
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Old 03-09-2005, 10:25 PM   #15
wxyzabc
Location: Japan
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Re: Weights

"All I know is that it's an ancient training method, and that it should increase speed, power, strength and balance."

imho this kind of training would suit other martial arts much better than Aikido. Building strength is naturally a good thing but simple things like push up and pullups would be more beneficial than wearing that sort of thing. Also wont ukemi prove to be a little awkward wearing that?

One thing to bear in mind is that as you start strength training it becomes tempting/easy to use that new strength during training and technique can suffer.

Everyones different and you have to do what you feel is right
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Old 03-10-2005, 01:20 AM   #16
grondahl
Dojo: Stockholms Aikidoklubb
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Re: Weights

I wouldn't focus that much on arms and chest, rather focus on building core-strength(back and abdomen), legs(squats) and hips and of course aerobic exercises such as running, swimming... When you do push ups, make variations, for example I think that "Hindu push ups" would be an excellent variation for aikido practice since it focuses more on the shoulders than regular push ups.(And shoulder injuries ain't that uncommon in aikido).

Regarding weight training and flexibility I agree with Paul.
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