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Old 03-24-2005, 01:48 PM   #26
Nick P.
 
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Re: Patronising beginners

Quote:
beat up the guy who was patronizing you
...don't forget to get their friends and family while you are at it.

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Old 03-24-2005, 01:58 PM   #27
Nick P.
 
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Re: Patronising beginners

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote:
When you practice MA one day you may be called to use your skills do defend your life, or life your family, friends, country...May be you will have to kill somebody, or not to kill him, and continue to live with consequences of your decision.

May be you will have to give your own life to protect someone....you see, it's serious matter. You practice in the dojo to forge you spirit and body. In that context, any patronizing or other form of harsh training is meaningless, it's simply out of our interest. If somebody fells that it is a big drama, he very probably should find another hobby.
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Old 03-25-2005, 07:35 PM   #28
shugyo_sha
 
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Re: Patronizing beginners

Quote:
oh my, simply shut up and train hard. You came to practice Martial Art, not drinking coffee in nice and pleasant environment.
If you have been training for sometime, it would be deeply disturbing for me to comprehend this statement. One's experience should be enjoyable and rewarding as the newcomer learns from his/her seniors.

Quote:
Martial Art is about to face death, and sometimes even more.
Um-mm maybe I'm missing something here, but where in the teachings does it say this? We all shall face our end at one point in time. What matters is what we do with our time before we meet that end.

And yes you are correct in a sense what you face that is more is yourself. We face the challenge of mastering ourselves. We must master our faults, our own weaknesses.

Being that Anon is 6 months into his training, this person may be looking for response's to see if this is a standard occurrence. A rapport should be established with the Sensei, where he should feel comfortable to speak with him/her in private.

If this type of action is condoned or not dealt with. Than maybe just maybe you may want to find another Sensei.

As for the Martial Arts prepares you to face death? In the context that this statement was presented then I would equate that to
So in turn would learning how to drive.

Just my opinion.
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Old 03-27-2005, 12:09 PM   #29
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Patronizing beginners

[quote=Clyde Caminos]
As for the Martial Arts prepares you to face death? In the context that this statement was presented then I would equate that to
So in turn would learning how to drive.
/QUOTE]

Good analogy! wished i'd thought of that one!

I tend to think martial arts might prepare you how to live more than how to die or face death. I've done alot of "martial" training in my life and none of it has taught me how to face death.
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Old 03-27-2005, 02:45 PM   #30
Tim Gerrard
 
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Re: Patronising beginners

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote:
...Martial Art is about to face death...
Chill out mate, I think you're missing the point here. If there's a problem it should be dealt with there and then, approach them after class, maybe a quiet word in the bar after trainin. If it is a semapai worth their salt they should listen. Unfortunatly it's a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, and it happens to be the inexperienced who try to teach begginners techniques that are, more often than not, completly different from what sensei's doing.

Just speak to people, don't try and kick their ass to prove a point, and if that doesn't work, talk to sensei or a sempai.

Aikido doesn't work? My Aikido works, what on earth are you practicing?!
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Old 03-27-2005, 03:24 PM   #31
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Re: Patronizing beginners

Quote:
Clyde Caminos wrote:
Um-mm maybe I'm missing something here, but where in the teachings does it say this? .
Yes, you are missing something. Find a good teacher, he will teach you this "something".

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
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Old 03-27-2005, 03:26 PM   #32
NagaBaba
 
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Re: Patronising beginners

Quote:
Tim Gerrard wrote:
Chill out mate, I think you're missing the point here.
I miss nothing here. You are missing whole point.

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
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Old 03-28-2005, 05:45 AM   #33
Tim Gerrard
 
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Re: Patronising beginners

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote:
I miss nothing here. You are missing whole point.
I'm only pointing out that this thread is about patronising aikidoka. Not life and death situations.

Aikido doesn't work? My Aikido works, what on earth are you practicing?!
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Old 03-28-2005, 06:10 AM   #34
PeterR
 
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Re: Patronising beginners

You guys are begininng to scare me.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 03-29-2005, 02:42 PM   #35
shugyo_sha
 
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Re: Patronising beginners

Quote:
Please unite your efforts, forget your egos and strive to maintain a joyful, friendly dojo.
What I should include was that was written by Yamada Sensei

Quote:
"Budo (the Martial Way) is not felling the opponent by our force, nor is it a tool to lead the world into destruction with arms. True Budo is to accept the spirit of the universe, keep the peace of the world, correctly produce, protect, and cultivate all things in nature".
Written by O'Sensei

Quote:
Yes, you are missing something. Find a good teacher, he will teach you this "something".

He who searches for the meaning of Life, finds not something, but Someone.
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Old 04-03-2005, 04:15 PM   #36
the slayer
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Re: Patronising beginners

i had a similar problem a couple of weeks ago i have been in aikido for 5yrs i was going to do my 4th kyu last yr but something happened so got to do it this yr.i have diabetes,lupus,kidney problems just found out i have also got a sliding hiatus hernia and an underactive thyroid.lots of the higher grades and some beginners that no me are fine about it.but for some reason a beginner said to me i can't lift you up (for haishin undo) back stretch because she was implying i was heavy or fat but what got me she went over to a male who was heavier than me and picked him up i let it go but on the sat when i went to train i told the instructor what happened and one of the students heard and said if you do it right you can pick anyone up so the instructor told my sensei to tell him what had been going on touch wood it hasn't happened since i don't mind if they say i'm not being nasty but can't pick you up but saying the way the other student said it bothered me.
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Old 04-12-2005, 09:45 AM   #37
Justin Gaar
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Ki Symbol Re: Patronising beginners

This may not be patronizing. Take it humorously. Laugh at yourself for your mistakes and try try again. If you have this defeatist attitude and think of yourself as a beginner you'll never stop coming off as a beginner.

If you arrest a mime, do you have tell him he has the right to remain silent?
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Old 04-12-2005, 10:41 AM   #38
bryce_montgomery
 
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Re: Patronising beginners

Here's a thought I had when I was reading this thread:

Anon, what have the experiences in your aikido practice taught you about how to handle the situation?

Just a thought I had.

My advice would be to ask them why or to stop...if this doesn't help, just try to ignore them and push on. Have you ever thought that they are patronizing you because you might be better than they were at your level?...No matter what the reasoning is, just train harder and stay committed to your training.

Bryce
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Old 04-12-2005, 02:31 PM   #39
Lindsay Donaghe
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Re: Patronising beginners

My advice, like most of the others, would be to talk to your Sensei about the situation. Ultimately, if it distracts you to the point that you can't train, seek out another dojo that might be a more friendly environment.

But try to remember that Aikido is about developing yourself mentally as much as it is a physical "Martial Art". Confidence will come the more you train. You aren't in competition with anyone else in your dojo, you're only in competition with your potential. So try to stick with it, and ignore slights from your sempai because they aren't what's important (and ignoring bullies is one of the best ways to get them to lose interest in picking on you). You'll only have to train one on one with them for part of the class, and think of it as a good way to practice trying to relax in stressful situations (breathe! focus!). Remember that you are still learning from your sempai, even if the lesson is not what they think they are teaching you.
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Old 04-12-2005, 04:24 PM   #40
Jake Karlins
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Re: Patronising beginners

Giving advice is really hard. I think other people hjave given you a good range of ideas/options. Really, though, I just wanted to say: Good luck! Hope everything turns out well.
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Old 04-12-2005, 07:35 PM   #41
"aikiangel"
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Re: Patronising beginners

Hey there Anon.

I know how you feel, all though i have been training for 2 going on 3 years and have 4th Kyuu and still consider myself a beginner, i still receive this kind of treatment...my advice ignore it and stick with Aikido....sometimes depending on the circumstances it will pass, in others like mine so far it hasnt, so get used to it. I am young and female, there fore there is a bit of patronising for me. Most people arent in my Dojo, thers just one or two in particular. it is mostly because they are higher and insist on being treated as a higher rank and think they know more then you. I receive a lot of this even from ranks that are lower because they are older then me they think they know more then me, and some do as they train more but for the most part they dont. so basically train hard and dont let it get to you.
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Old 04-13-2005, 12:43 PM   #42
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Re: Patronising beginners

Dear Anon, I have been training just under a year. I wonder about what you mean by patronising? I understand that you are using the anonymous section for a reason, as am I, but if you feel comfortable, could you share more about your situation?

Since I am new also, I cannot offer any advice, but I will share my experiences, and you can take from them whatever helps you out.

I have trained under multiple instructors several senior students. They are all different in their approaches. I have practiced with even more partners, all of which are different. Some people tend to be very hardcore, some more the opposite. I receive my share of criticism from from instructors and once in a while senior students about what I am doing right, or more often, what I am doing wrong. Sometimes it is a blunt "Do it like this!" and sometimes there is more humor used to get the point across. This may look like I am being patronised, but I take to humor well and it helps me remember the points.

What mood are you in when you train? I had a lot on my mind yesterday when I trained, and my mind was hardly there at all. I made a lot of mistakes, breached some etiquette, and probably should not have trained that day. My mood affected my interpretations of people's criticisms, and that changed the experience for me.

From a non-Aikido perspective here is some advice I give. Try to understand these students and their intentions. See if your mood affected your interpretation of the events. Also, talking to your sensei and continuing training both sound like good advice from everyone else. If they truly are just patronising you for the sake of bullying, continuing to train will be the best way to show them confidence. Even train with them, unless they are doing things that are unreasonably putting you at risk of injury, at which case your sensei needs to know.
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Old 04-16-2005, 05:08 AM   #43
"babaker"
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Re: Patronising beginners

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote:
When you practice MA one day you may be called to use your skills do defend your life, or life your family, friends, country...May be you will have to kill somebody, or not to kill him, and continue to live with consequences of your decision.

May be you will have to give your own life to protect someone....you see, it's serious matter. You practice in the dojo to forge you spirit and body. In that context, any patronizing or other form of harsh training is meaningless, it's simply out of our interest. If somebody fells that it is a big drama, he very probably should find another hobby.

Hey, Szczepan ... get a grip! Tone it down a few decibels, will ya?

As true as your post might be, to dwell on it, like most people do, will just drive you and everyone around you stark raving mad.

If it was me reading this in my teens, I would read this post, tuck it away in the depths of my memorys until experience gave it some kind of meaning. In other words, read it and then forget about it.

There are no guarantees in life, just that it is.

There will be patronizing people, and then there will be nice helpful people, but no matter if everything goes to hell in a bucket ... at least you can enjoy the ride.
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Old 04-16-2005, 05:20 AM   #44
"babaker"
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Re: Patronizing beginners

Quote:
Hey there Anon.

I know how you feel, all though i have been training for 2 going on 3 years and have 4th Kyu and still consider myself a beginner, i still receive this kind of treatment...my advice ignore it and stick with Aikido....sometimes depending on the circumstances it will pass, in others like mine so far it hasn't, so get used to it. I am young and female, there fore there is a bit of patronizing for me. Most people aren't in my Dojo, thers just one or two in particular. it is mostly because they are higher and insist on being treated as a higher rank and think they know more then you. I receive a lot of this even from ranks that are lower because they are older then me they think they know more then me, and some do as they train more but for the most part they dont. so basically train hard and dont let it get to you.
Don't forget .... to be your age.

Too many people try to be older or younger, or imitate some character in a movie or in a book they read somewhere, but if you are 15, be 15! If you are 25 then be twenty five! Or if you are like me, over 50 ... well I don't want to be that old anymore so I have decided to be a kid again, at least whenever I can escape! So factor that little thought into the mix and figure it out. When your do ... it makes this whole patronizing thing fit into where each person is for their age and how they are trying to connect with the human beings around them who are at a different place than they are.

Just a thought. Enjoy where you are RIGHT NOW ... cause this moment will never come again.
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