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Old 02-03-2005, 11:03 AM   #26
raul rodrigo
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Re: I think I'm done with Aikido

If you don't mind my asking, how good are you? Or rather, how much progress have you made in the art? I ask because I ran into a long (three years) lull in my practice, where I was simply not getting any better. I wasnt terrible, but I wasnt really getting to where my sensei wanted. It was during most of my second kyu and first kyu years, and I seriously considered leaving a couple of times. (Then for some reason I don't understand, I made several breakthroughs, but thats another story.) Does a perceived lack of progress have anything to do with your decision?
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Old 02-03-2005, 11:04 AM   #27
aikidoc
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Re: I think I'm done with Aikido

Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote:
I am not him, but sometimes in my life I have been a serious beginner in (insert whatever) for months or years, and realized that I'd gotten from it *what I could at that time*, that it was no longer compelling to me or speaking to me and it was time to move on.
To me and perhaps only me, if you truly connect with an art it will always speak to you. But, that may just be me. I first tried karate and then some tae kwon do. They didn't connect. Then I stumbled across aikido. Even though I was initially only able to train for a short time in the beginning, 15 years later it still connected with me and I returned-never to leave again. The reason I did not train was due to school and family issues not because the art was not appealing. Although I've been lambasted for this statement before, some arts are not simply suited for some people.
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Old 02-03-2005, 11:11 AM   #28
Bronson
 
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Re: I think I'm done with Aikido

Quote:
John Riggs wrote:
some arts are not simply suited for some people.
I'd agree. Aikido is there for anybody who wants it. There are other things for those who want other things. I don't see the big deal in somebody leaving Aikido...people do it all the time in all endeavors and the world hasn't stopped rotating yet.

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
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Old 02-03-2005, 12:30 PM   #29
Kevin Kelly
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Re: I think I'm done with Aikido

People come and go for whatever reason. I see our student roster shrink and grow. I would think after a couple of years he/she should be at least 3rd/2nd kyu. By the way, where is anon?
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Old 02-03-2005, 12:39 PM   #30
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: I think I'm done with Aikido

I don't think it is so much reaching an understanding and full knowledge of aikido, but reaching and understanding of self and how it relates to aikido. to me it is not about understanding the art, but the artist. Sounds like he reached that for himself.
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Old 02-03-2005, 02:32 PM   #31
Aristeia
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Re: I think I'm done with Aikido

I'm stunned at some of the responses. Anon has come on to give us information we rarely get, an explanation of why someone that's trained beyond the beginner stage suddenly no longer shows up. His reasons make sense, we've all been through lulls in our training so it can't be that hard to extrapolate to the position he finds himself in.
And then we hear people telling him that his decision to try another art, to try his hand at sparring, to widen his journey beyond what he started at means he needs to grow up?? It is implied that he is too focused on glory and trophies and is somehow deficient because his path is not our path? He never claimed that his reasons for leaving was because he thinks he's completed the system, just that he feels he personally has got what he needed from it, and yet he gets slammed for leaving so soon (2 years is not that soon). And told in what I read to be a snide tone that he will get injured and broken in another art.

I'll tell ya, if I was new to aikido some of these responses would have turned me right off. Pretentious, superior, condescending nonesense.

"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
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Old 02-03-2005, 05:45 PM   #32
Don_Modesto
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Re: I think I'm done with Aikido

Quote:
Brad Eamer wrote:
It's interesting that there is a temptation to view such a statement as an attack or a foolish choice.
http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7485

Quote:
Kevin Kelly wrote:
By the way, where is anon?


Seems his was a public service announcement and he wasn't soliciting feedback! LOL.

Don J. Modesto
St. Petersburg, Florida
------------------------
http://www.theaikidodojo.com/
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Old 02-03-2005, 06:02 PM   #33
maikerus
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Re: I think I'm done with Aikido

Quote:
Don J. Modesto wrote:
Seems his was a public service announcement and he wasn't soliciting feedback! LOL.
It was suggested that anyone who replies to this thread pay "Troll Fees" <--- That's a pun

--Michael...tossing his few yen into the pot

Hiriki no yosei 3 - The kihon that makes your head ache instead of your legs
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Old 02-03-2005, 07:48 PM   #34
Huker
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Re: I think I'm done with Aikido

Quote:
Well that is a huge assumption - reeking of pretension.
Peter, I didn't mean to sound pretentious when I said that it sounds as if he has made up his mind (I'm assuming that's what you meant--am I right?). It sounds like Anonymous isn't getting what he wants to out of Aikido anymore. That means that one some level he's probably already decided to find something more satisfying. As a matter of fact, he has said that he is unmotivated and that he is "inches away from quitting". Also, since he has already taken a more motivated interest in grappling arts, it looks like he has made up his mind. My belief that he has made up his mind is based entirely on things that Anonymous has said and is not an assumption at all, just a conclusion. Maybe I am wrong, but please try and see my point.
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Old 02-03-2005, 08:07 PM   #35
PeterR
 
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Re: I think I'm done with Aikido

Quote:
Tanner Hukezalie wrote:
Peter, I didn't mean to sound pretentious when I said that it sounds as if he has made up his mind (I'm assuming that's what you meant--am I right?). It sounds like Anonymous isn't getting what he wants to out of Aikido anymore. That means that one some level he's probably already decided to find something more satisfying. As a matter of fact, he has said that he is unmotivated and that he is "inches away from quitting". Also, since he has already taken a more motivated interest in grappling arts, it looks like he has made up his mind. My belief that he has made up his mind is based entirely on things that Anonymous has said and is not an assumption at all, just a conclusion. Maybe I am wrong, but please try and see my point.
Hi Tanner;

Basically I was reacting to the

Quote:
someone turn from an art geared to peace for one that is probably geared to conflict
part of your post. It's a sentiment that is often expressed by Aikido people which has evolved into a bit of a hot button issue with me. It's not just you - please don't see my statement as a flame focused on you alone.

I find it aggravating any suggestion that Aikido is a technically and morally a superior art and that by leaving old Anon is turning away from the light. I'm pretty hard core Aikido (its what I do) but I am the first to admit that Aikido is not for everyone, that there are perfectly valid alternatives out there, and it is far better for someone to explore than be stuck in an unsuitable situation.

And for the record the Troll pun was mine (in Chat) and it took Michael a certain (I'll never tell) time to understand it. I think the original poster is a bit of a troll - but reasonably clever and useful.

Last edited by PeterR : 02-03-2005 at 08:17 PM.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 02-03-2005, 08:52 PM   #36
Erik
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Re: I think I'm done with Aikido

Uber-wise, super smart, brilliant student, "I outgrew bjj and decided to take aikido",

alternatively

knucklehead, "I outgrew aikido and decided to take bjj".

Whatever!
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Old 02-04-2005, 12:19 AM   #37
CNYMike
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Re: I think I'm done with Aikido

Quote:
Lynn Seiser wrote:
I once asked, what do you do if someone lets go of the grab. The answer was, there is no attack so move on.

If he has made his choice, which is his right, why are we still holding hold. What in us will not accept that different people think differently, decide differently, and make different choices?

IMHO, it depends the goals you set. Once you meet those goals, you have outgrown the pursuit and move on or you set new and higher goals and move on. It sounds like for his needs and wants, once met, he has outgrown his need for Aikido.
Good points. And I'm one to talk -- Back in the '80s, I dropped out of Aikido after only two years, although not for the same reasons Anon had.

That said, a couple of things he said bugged me, and I covered them in my original post. You have good points, but I hope you see where I'm coming from here.
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Old 02-04-2005, 06:51 AM   #38
"mortaltortle"
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Re: I think I'm done with Aikido

Hi, incase you were all wondering, I am the thread starter.

Thanks for the positive feedback to my decision, also thanks for the negative feedback. I wont dwell on those individuals that still live in the fantasy kingdom where their martial art is the best, this thread is not about you.

During my two years of Aikido I did have a chance to experiment informally with several students who where either cross training from another martial art or decided to quit their previous art and try Aikido for a while. I had a taste of many martial arts and many different varieties of Aikido from different teachers.

Honestly though, bjj is not the grappling art I was going for, infact, it would be amateur wrestling, there is a little catch-wrestling club that never gets attention from the "serious" martial artists, maybe its not mystical or oriental enough for them but I was seriously impressed with the ingenious holds and locks that one of the ex-catch wrestlers put on me. Mind blowing stuff for someone who always thought that groundwork involves sitting on your knees and duckwalking.

To the person inquiring about how "good" I am, how would I know, I never managed to test myself against a realisticaly out-to-get me opponent, gradings were probably the closest to this and even then it was always utterly co-operative. In that time I never failed a grading and was even praised once for having "exceptional intensity" (3rd kyu by the way)

To the person rolling their eyes (on the internet) at my claiming to have lost weight and gained fitness in the two years of Aikido, why not? I was 20 lbs overweight, no muscle tone, zero endurance, now I am at my ideal weight, actual muscle tone, lots of endurance. Its not impossible in a span of only two years.
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Old 02-04-2005, 08:09 AM   #39
Douglas Wong
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Re: I think I'm done with Aikido

hi,

i've been reading all the posts here and there are some very interesting comments made. i for one would definitely suggest that you do what you feel is of benefit to you. If there is another martial art out there that has caught your attention, it is only right that you go out there and give it a go. You never know, the 2 years of aikido training could contribute to your new endeavour. Aikido is more than just techniques on the mat, it helps develop a certain way of thinking i.e taisabaki or body movement that could be useful to you in catch-wrestling. Who knows, you might be able to pick up loads of useful techiniques from catch-wrestling and putting it into your aikido or vice versa. Again, when you leave something it doesnt mean its gone forever, you take what you've learn and try to use it to help in your new martial art. if it doesnt work for you, you could always come back to aikido. All the best!!
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Old 02-04-2005, 11:14 AM   #40
Avery Jenkins
 
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Re: I think I'm done with Aikido

Hey, Anon,

Good for you! Wrestling sounds like a blast, enjoy. I'm glad Aikido got you going, ignore the naysayers. Heck, I've quit 3 or 4 times during a single class!

Avery
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Old 02-04-2005, 11:20 AM   #41
CNYMike
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Re: I think I'm done with Aikido

Quote:
Hi, incase you were all wondering, I am the thread starter.

Thanks for the positive feedback to my decision, also thanks for the negative feedback ....
You're welcome.

Quote:
.... I wont dwell on those individuals that still live in the fantasy kingdom where their martial art is the best, this thread is not about you.
Well, then, it's ok, because I'm not one of them. I've been back in Aikido for almost a year, but in the mean time I have trained in and am still training in Karate, Kali, Pentjak Silat Serak, and Tai Chi. So you could say I am busy most evenings.

Quote:
During my two years of Aikido I did have a chance to experiment informally with several students who where either cross training from another martial art or decided to quit their previous art and try Aikido for a while. I had a taste of many martial arts and many different varieties of Aikido from different teachers.

Honestly though, bjj is not the grappling art I was going for, infact, it would be amateur wrestling, there is a little catch-wrestling club that never gets attention from the "serious" martial artists, maybe its not mystical or oriental enough for them but I was seriously impressed with the ingenious holds and locks that one of the ex-catch wrestlers put on me. Mind blowing stuff for someone who always thought that groundwork involves sitting on your knees and duckwalking.
Mind a little free advice?

If you can -- meaning not constrained my time, money, or the cows your teachers would be having -- see if you can do both Aikido and the wrestling club for a while. It may be that you are having a case of burnout, which happens periodically to martial artists. I ran into that the same thing myself when I first did Aikido back in the '80s. At the time I signed on with Sensei Jim Wallace's Seidokan class, I had been doing shito-ryu karate-do for about a year-and-a-half. Well, that's about the first time you experiece burnout, which may explains why for a few weeks I thought Aikido was great and was ready to drop karate. But being a creature of habit I continued in both arts and worked through my burnout, which is the only thing you can do about it.

Now, it is true that in '88 or so, I dropped out of Aikido, looks like the two year point, but that's not the issue here. The point is your desire to drop Aikido may be a result of burnout, which is perfectly natural for martial artists (and also of great concern, because it's the source of the 90% dropout rate). Also, if you have come as far as you say you have, your sensei would probably hate to lose you. And I'd wager you've made friends in your dojo who'd miss you, too. (One incentive for resumign Aikido was I'd hoped to meet some of the people who'd been in Sensei Jim's dojo before he went to Colgate and the dojo imploded, but no one I know from those days is there, I think.)

So I would suggest that when you join the wrestling club, stay with Aikido at least once a week, and keep that up for a couple of months. See how you feel about Aikido then and then decide what you want to do.

My mother always counseled me against making rash decisions; I think that may be a good idea in this case. Do both for a bit, see how you feel, and then decide. And as to your muscle memory getting to be like a messed up hard drive, that's your problem.


Quote:
To the person inquiring about how "good" I am, how would I know, I never managed to test myself against a realisticaly out-to-get me opponent, gradings were probably the closest to this and even then it was always utterly co-operative. In that time I never failed a grading and was even praised once for having "exceptional intensity" (3rd kyu by the way)
Unless you move to a bad neighborhood and get into at least one fight every day, you never will. Even freestyle grappling is -- or SHOULD BE --- done with safety as a prime consideration. They may resist and counter but I'd hardly call that "out to get you."

But remember that praise you got on your test? The people who said that will probably be sad to see you go if you switch. Another reason to cross-train for a bit and then decide; it's not all about you.
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Old 02-04-2005, 11:33 AM   #42
Aristeia
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Re: I think I'm done with Aikido

Quote:
Michael Gallagher wrote:



Mind a little free advice?

If you can -- meaning not constrained my time, money, or the cows your teachers would be having -- see if you can do both Aikido and the wrestling club for a while. It may be that you are having a case of burnout, which happens periodically to martial artists. .
This I agree with. The burnout factor is exceedingly common, we've all gone through it. I found that when I started my cross training in BJJ evetnually it re-fired my passion for Aikido. Groundfighting arts I think are a particularly good compliment to Aikido and you may find you enjoy playing with how the two will blend into each other. Also the philosophy of the techniques may be somewhat similar but the "feeling" of the arts is different, primarily because of the sparring vs non sparring aspect. For that reason it can be nice to go straight from a grappling class to an Aikido class - change is as good as a rest and all that.

"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
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Old 02-04-2005, 11:55 AM   #43
Bryan
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Re: I think I'm done with Aikido

Quote:
Michael Fooks wrote:

I'll tell ya, if I was new to aikido some of these responses would have turned me right off. Pretentious, superior, condescending nonesense.
I agree with Michael. I've only been at Aikido for a bit over 6 months so I'm still a beginner. This thread turns me off from this community. Perhaps I have not yet grasped the spiritual side of Aikido, but some of these responses seem to contradict what I thought Aikido was teaching me.

I hope anon finds his passion again, whatever art/style he takes on.
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Old 02-04-2005, 04:37 PM   #44
Qatana
 
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Re: I think I'm done with Aikido

Bryan, don't judge aikido by an internet discussion. Maybe stop reading them for a while, and just go train. Or conversely, go surf around some of the other boards, both aikido specific and martial arts in general.
This is definitly the most civil and supportive of them all, and believe it or not, most of those negative posts were people being as supportive as they possibly can.

I'm pretty sure if I had actually arrived at the first aikido class i Tried to attend 19 years ago( I got lost on the way to the dojo) I would not have stuck with it. I was just not ready, and I'm sure thats why I let myself get lost that night. I'm really glad i finally got there!

Q
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www.knot-working.com

"It is not wise to be incautious when confronting a little smiling bald man"'- Rule #1
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Old 02-04-2005, 04:54 PM   #45
Bryan
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Re: I think I'm done with Aikido

Quote:
Jo Adell wrote:
Bryan, don't judge aikido by an internet discussion.
I wasn't judging Aikido, just some of the posts in this thread.
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Old 02-04-2005, 05:42 PM   #46
mriehle
 
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Re: I think I'm done with Aikido

I don't know that I agree with the overall tone of some of the responses here and I definitely am not in the camp that believes Aikido is the Ultimage Martial Art, but...

...well...

...the tone of the thread starter kind of bugs me too.

It's hard to put my finger on exactly what bugs me, but the word pretentious was used in regard to one of his detractors. It's close to the correct word for our buddy anon. I hope he didn't intend to sound that way, but it kind of felt like he might have.

Another great point was made about it not being all about him. As a teacher I've had students leave for many reasons. Sometimes it was just personal, they didn't like me. Sometimes they felt like they weren't getting what they needed. Sometimes life was getting in the way.

It always bugs me when someone leaves, I feel like I've failed them in some way. But it's a lot easier for me when they tell me why and I can come to accept that they do have good reasons. It's easier, in fact, even if I don't agree that their reasons are good ones.

When they just stop showing up, I worry about why. What could I have done to make the art more worthwhile for them? Anything? Maybe not, but how will I know if they don't say anything to me?

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Old 02-04-2005, 10:32 PM   #47
raul rodrigo
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Re: I think I'm done with Aikido

[quote=Michael Riehle]

...the tone of the thread starter kind of bugs me too.

It's hard to put my finger on exactly what bugs me, but the word pretentious was used in regard to one of his detractors. It's close to the correct word for our buddy anon. I hope he didn't intend to sound that way, but it kind of felt like he might have.


I know what you mean. There was a slight implication that aikido had failed him somehow, that it just wasnt good enough to hold his attention. I don't know if he actually feels that or he meant that and I should not presume. But I suppose that (unintended?) implication was what could have triggered the more negative responses that he got.

For my part, I wish him well. If another art works for him, well and good. I'm all for crosstraining and grappling.
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Old 02-04-2005, 11:59 PM   #48
Sue Hammerich
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Re: I think I'm done with Aikido

Well, thanks for hanging out with us for while. Good luck on your path wherever it takes you. Keep that spirit of wanting to learn, and you will do well. Take care!

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Old 02-05-2005, 11:47 PM   #49
JessePasley
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Re: I think I'm done with Aikido

Aikido turned a fat geek into a confident man? Sounds like a real budo success story to me. Score: Aikido 1 Fatness 0. Next please!

Anon, good luck with your future endevors. Have some fun.
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Old 02-10-2005, 03:47 PM   #50
"TBone"
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Ai symbol Re: I think I'm done with Aikido

I started my Aikido training with a great deal of motivation and excitement. As time progressed, I was not as motivated but stayed with it. I think this is also the way with marriage relationships; we are initially really intense but eventually the fire wears off. A good marriage lasts when the participants realize that it is natural for the fire to die down, but continue faithfully nonetheless. Those who don't realize that the exciting part of the relationship was transitory eventually get divorced because they wrongly think the relationship died.

I think once he realizes that his new love affair (whatever that is) will bring no greater happiness to his life, he may come back with a renewed sense of purpose. If not, then perhaps he didn't need to be here in the first place.
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