Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Training

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-17-2005, 02:10 AM   #1
tiyler_durden
Location: Amsterdam
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 68
Netherlands
Offline
My Jiu Waza Needs Help

Hi,

I an having issues with my Jiu Waza...

Every time I get going in Jui Waza I want to do certain techniques and as Soon as Uke grabs me I forget them and then cannot do them and then I get upset and frustrated and my Jiu Waza goes to S**T...

Does any one have Any suggestions or Ides to stop or help me with this?

Tiyler

"Deal with the faults as gently a your own"
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2005, 02:35 AM   #2
PeterR
 
PeterR's Avatar
Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,075
Japan
Offline
Re: My Jiu Waza Needs Help

I can help here.

The idea in jiyu waza is that you are supposed to do your techniques spontaneously. That is the ideal but before you can do that you need to slow down (might not be an option) or increase the time you take between deciding and executing a technique (easily done).

Most people only decide what they are going to do once the attack begins. What you should do is start making the decision as soon as uke has left your hands. By the name they've rolled, stood up, turned around, closed the distance and attacked you have had the time to do your nails, read a novel and decide on the next technique. It can be surprising how much time you have got.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2005, 03:24 AM   #3
xuzen
 
xuzen's Avatar
Dojo: None at the moment - on hiatus
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 965
Malaysia
Offline
Re: My Jiu Waza Needs Help

Dear Tiy,

Sometimes, in jiyu waza, people like you and me still assume we are doing textbook type technique. This is not the case. Textbook type technique are designed for teaching purpose only and very little practical use. So instead of trying to do it stepwise like in waza type, reduce the technique to its core principles only.

Personally in my jiyu waza, I only choose those very simple technique, kokyu nage featuring very prominently. Others are irimizuki, iriminage. Fancy or complicated techniques are out.

And lastly my advise is esp in multiple uke formats... not all uke you meet you have to do a technique, sometimes avoidance and blending to let you refocus and catch a microsecond of breather is also important.

I remember, once I was being uke for my sandan sempai in randori; there were four of us attacking. I remember doing a shomenuchi and the tori blended with my attack, went behind me and then push me towards another incoming uke. It was a complete non-textbook technique but it did its job anyway.
Hope this help.

Boon.

SHOMEN-ATE (TM), the solution to 90% of aikido and life's problems.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2005, 08:44 AM   #4
SeiserL
 
SeiserL's Avatar
Dojo: Roswell Budokan, Kyushinkan Dojo, Aikido World Alliance
Location: Roswell, GA USA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,724
United_States
Offline
Re: My Jiu Waza Needs Help

Relax, breathe, and enjoy yourself. Sounds like you are trying too hard. Slow down and have fun with the process. Let it happen, don't try to make it happen. It just takes practice.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2005, 03:34 PM   #5
Bronson
 
Bronson's Avatar
Dojo: Seiwa Dojo and Southside Dojo
Location: Battle Creek & Kalamazoo, MI
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,677
Offline
Re: My Jiu Waza Needs Help

Quote:
Tiyler Durden wrote:
...I want to do certain techniques...
Stop doing this bit and you should be fine

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2005, 03:53 PM   #6
Paul D. Smith
 
Paul D. Smith's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 26
United_States
Offline
Re: My Jiu Waza Needs Help

One thing which used to help me was to do just one technique, no matter what attack - literally. It breaks the association that a given technique is "best used" for a given attack. Shomenuchi, yokomenuchi, mawarigeri, uchirotekubitori, etc. - kotegaeshi. Etc.

Or, just do it a million times. Eventually, you will tire of trying and just move.

Paul
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2005, 05:48 PM   #7
Aiki LV
Dojo: VEGAS VALLEY AIKIDO
Location: Las Vegas/Henderson
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 73
United_States
Offline
Re: My Jiu Waza Needs Help

Mushin (meaning no mind) will help you. Chances are your body knows what to do, but your mind is getting in the way. To put it simply don't think just do. For what it's worth that is what my first Sensei always told me and it has worked. Hopefully it will help you some.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2005, 07:52 PM   #8
maikerus
Dojo: Roppongi Yoshinkan Aikido / Roppongi, Tokyo, Japan
Location: Tokyo
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 571
Japan
Offline
Re: My Jiu Waza Needs Help

Hi Tiyler,

As other have said you shouldn't think about the technique that you are going to do before uke attacks, but I understand that in the beginning you need to have some thought of what you are going to do as you are being attacked.

My advice would be to think about what your initial movement is going to be upon the attack and then concentrate on changing it each time. There are a limited amount of movements you can do initially but when you do them it will slow uke's movement down and hopefully a technique will pop out at you for you to apply.

By initial movements I mean things like:

1. Pivot or cross-step pivot to the right side
2. Pivot or cross-step pivot to the left side
3. Move in
4. Pivot on the back foot (both left and right)
5. Step back

Depending on what technique you are being attacked with your hands can do a lot as well

Katatemochi:

During pivot just keep contact with the grabbed hand
During pivot use other hand on top or underneath of grabbed hand and remove grabbed hand from grasp

Shomenuchi:

Allow uke's hand to come down and then bring it back up in a circle
Allow uke's hand to come down and then use it from chest height
Block uke's strike with both hands and go forward or pivot out of the way
Duck under strike so that they go behind

Lots of other variations, but I hope my idea makes sense. Its one of the ways I teach jiyuwaza and it seems to work.

A few yen worth of thoughts...

--Michael

-

Hiriki no yosei 3 - The kihon that makes your head ache instead of your legs
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2005, 08:15 PM   #9
DevinHammer
 
DevinHammer's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Santa Cruz
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 89
United_States
Offline
Re: My Jiu Waza Needs Help

NEVER "decide" what technique to use - what happens during the blend will lead you to the technique (and remember to blend fully - don't shortcut to the throw).

How do you know what blend to use?

You will need some Zanshin to go with your Mushin. That is to say, be constantly connected, in control of uke. Not just during the "technique", but after the technique, while he's falling, while he's getting up, before his next attack. Don't stand there waiting for the next attack - shape it. Use your movement and extension to make up uke's mind for him what the attack will be, when, and from what direction. This way, your blend has begun before the attack.

These are things I strive for, but I'll be the first to admit that I'm far from achieving them. I've only had fleeting glimpses as yet.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2005, 08:30 PM   #10
PeterR
 
PeterR's Avatar
Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,075
Japan
Offline
Re: My Jiu Waza Needs Help

Again - the ideal is all well and good but the question is how do you get there.

Mike has provided good advice. In our group it's understood that you don't have to do a technique every time but avoid and put yourself in a position where a technique could happen. For me techniques happen almost every time but for a beginner they might not at all - find a happy medium.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2005, 08:31 PM   #11
maikerus
Dojo: Roppongi Yoshinkan Aikido / Roppongi, Tokyo, Japan
Location: Tokyo
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 571
Japan
Offline
Re: My Jiu Waza Needs Help

Devin's post reminds me of the 4 things that were really stressed to us during our jiyuwaza lessons...

1. *Always* move forward. Never backward. Don't wait in one spot, either
2. Do complete pivots when you pivot. Don't just move slightly, but use the control over uke that it gives you
3. Keep you kamae and stand straight. Don't bend over.
4. Complete your throw (zanshin). Don't rush it.

I'll have to double check my notes for the exact wording used, but thats the gist of the four points we were graded on.

cheers,

--Michael

Hiriki no yosei 3 - The kihon that makes your head ache instead of your legs
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2005, 09:55 PM   #12
Bronson
 
Bronson's Avatar
Dojo: Seiwa Dojo and Southside Dojo
Location: Battle Creek & Kalamazoo, MI
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,677
Offline
Re: My Jiu Waza Needs Help

Oh no, not again. I came back to this thread to actually add something to it and I come across Michael's post. Once again I find myself agreeing with the brutish Yoshinkan guy. I'll just add that I agree with what he said

Quote:
Michael Stuempel wrote:
1. *Always* move forward. Never backward. Don't wait in one spot, either
2. Do complete pivots when you pivot. Don't just move slightly, but use the control over uke that it gives you
3. Keep you kamae and stand straight. Don't bend over.
4. Complete your throw (zanshin). Don't rush it.
Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2005, 08:59 AM   #13
tiyler_durden
Location: Amsterdam
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 68
Netherlands
Offline
Re: My Jiu Waza Needs Help

Hey,

Some great answers there which I think will help me.
I think you all have the same thought and this is to stop thinking and just blend and do the technique!

How would one go about doing such a thing? How does one actually stop thinking?

Tiyler

"Deal with the faults as gently a your own"
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2005, 09:53 AM   #14
SeiserL
 
SeiserL's Avatar
Dojo: Roswell Budokan, Kyushinkan Dojo, Aikido World Alliance
Location: Roswell, GA USA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,724
United_States
Offline
Re: My Jiu Waza Needs Help

Quote:
Tiyler Durden wrote:
I think you all have the same thought and this is to stop thinking and just blend and do the technique! How would one go about doing such a thing? How does one actually stop thinking?
I have been known to sing to myself internally with the rhythm of the movements. At times, I have even been caught whistling while I worked. didn't stop the thinkining, but does distract it.

IMHO, meditation is the best way to learn to stop thinking. First seated, then walking, then Aikido.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2005, 05:03 PM   #15
maikerus
Dojo: Roppongi Yoshinkan Aikido / Roppongi, Tokyo, Japan
Location: Tokyo
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 571
Japan
Offline
Re: My Jiu Waza Needs Help

Quote:
Tiyler Durden wrote:
How would one go about doing such a thing? How does one actually stop thinking?
Hmm...interesting point.

I suggest that you don't stop thinking, but instead think of your first movement in each technique as an attack (see my previous post about pivots, etc). I mean actually think to yourself "I am attacking like this" while you are moving to the attack. If you do this you won't be waiting for uke to come to you and therefore you won't have time to be thinking about what technique to do because you'll already be doing it.

It works for me, anyway.

cheers,

--Michael

Bronson...thanks for the kind words but if you talk to people who know me you'll hear that I'm not really brutish...that is, that's what you'll hear if they know what's good for them

Hiriki no yosei 3 - The kihon that makes your head ache instead of your legs
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2005, 06:13 PM   #16
DevinHammer
 
DevinHammer's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Santa Cruz
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 89
United_States
Offline
Re: My Jiu Waza Needs Help

Quote:
Peter Rehse wrote:
Again - the ideal is all well and good but the question is how do you get there.
Practice,practice,practice,practice,practice,practice,practice,practice,practice ,practice,practice,practice,practice,practice,practice,practice,practice,practic e,practice,practice,practice,practice,practice,practice,practice,practice,practi ce,practice,practice,practice,practice,practice, and yet more practice
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2005, 06:35 PM   #17
Bill Danosky
 
Bill Danosky's Avatar
Dojo: BN Yoshinkan
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 433
United_States
Offline
Re: My Jiu Waza Needs Help

You have "paralysis by analysis", Tyler.

That comes from being too attached to a sucessful outcome. The great thing about Jiyu Waza and randori is that if you whiff one, you just say, "Okay, next." And move on.

IMHO, the best thing you could do for yourself is decide to mess a few up on purpose. You'll be surprised how well it will go from there. Next, try using just one technique (like kote gaeshi) then move on to one or two others you really like.

Uke will always let you get away with it, so you have nothing to lose!
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2005, 06:21 AM   #18
tiyler_durden
Location: Amsterdam
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 68
Netherlands
Offline
Re: My Jiu Waza Needs Help

Hey All,

You are all thinking alike here!
So I train and train some more (Which I do any way)
Try and meditate? and not think about the technique and then if I do then do the same technique over and over until I get sick of it and then do another one!

Great plan I will give it a try..

Tiy...

"Deal with the faults as gently a your own"
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2005, 12:34 AM   #19
Sheldon Verbeke
Dojo: Sowakan, Maple Ridge, BC
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 5
Canada
Offline
Re: My Jiu Waza Needs Help

What They Said... seems I'm a li'l late...

Pretty much everything I thought of adding has already been said and then some except one personal touch.

It has been noted that moving towards the attack allows you to begin blending while Uke is formulating thier attack..... my little tidbit.... In doing so you're not only begining the blend but also controlling Uke's centre and taking their balance without their really knowing it's gone until far too late. If you're doing jiyu-waza with a single uke, stay on top of them by following in after you've moved through zanshin. If you've got multiple uke use them as blockers for the other attackers, it'll keep them busy... ;-)

Personally, I just completed my grading for Sandan and have to say it was the Best I've ever done.
Picture this if you will... up on the mats facing three Uke, one open handed, another with tanto and the third has his bokken... me... broken li'l toe all taped up (thanks to my youngest who waxed our wood floors the day before my test, helping Mum ya know, without telling anyone he did), buggered knee (old fart syndrome), and hernia (found out week after the test).... Best... you might ask... absoluteIy... can't remember a thing about it.. really, haven't the foggiest what I did. Friends watching were all amazed, or so they say... prolly just makin fun of me again!

my 2 n 1/2 cents...

Sheldon
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2005, 01:03 AM   #20
Janet Rosen
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Janet Rosen's Avatar
Location: Left Coast
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 3,964
Offline
Re: My Jiu Waza Needs Help

Quote:
Tiyler Durden wrote:
How would one go about doing such a thing? How does one actually stop thinking?
I try to just stand in a centered, relaxed way and invite my partner to do something. So my thought/feeling/attitude is like "Cmon into my place, let's see what happens" and it is the way my partner comes in that signals me to move a certain way--and that is the start of my blend.
Clear as mud?

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2005, 07:45 PM   #21
maikerus
Dojo: Roppongi Yoshinkan Aikido / Roppongi, Tokyo, Japan
Location: Tokyo
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 571
Japan
Offline
Re: My Jiu Waza Needs Help

Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote:
I try to just stand in a centered, relaxed way and invite my partner to do something.
"Come into my parlour," said the spider to the fly...


Hiriki no yosei 3 - The kihon that makes your head ache instead of your legs
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2005, 07:56 PM   #22
Janet Rosen
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Janet Rosen's Avatar
Location: Left Coast
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 3,964
Offline
Re: My Jiu Waza Needs Help

[quote=Michael Stuempel]"Come into my parlour," said the spider to the fly.../QUOTE]
Well, yes, exactly that!!!

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Long Island Asian Studies Center - Classes: Aiki Budo/Chi Gong/Tai Chi, Author of: Searching For O'Sensei



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Randori No Kata - history etc DaveS Techniques 14 09-30-2006 09:59 PM
Testing requirements kyu levels arjandevries Testing 10 08-07-2006 09:26 PM
Article: Big Mind, Little Mind by George S. Ledyard AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 5 12-11-2004 04:49 PM
Past Nage Waza In Aikido Dennis Hooker General 3 10-12-2004 03:24 PM
Difference btw randori and jiyu waza xuzen Language 10 08-28-2004 12:43 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:38 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate