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Old 03-23-2005, 08:10 AM   #76
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
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Re: Training in other schools of aikido

See my PM...

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 03-23-2005, 02:54 PM   #77
siwilson
Dojo: Kenshinkai Yoshinkan Aikido
Location: Portsmouth
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Posts: 450
England
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Re: Training in other schools of aikido

Wow! This Thread is nasty! (Not aimed at Ron, as I know he is a nice guy!)

Osu!
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Old 03-23-2005, 02:59 PM   #78
siwilson
Dojo: Kenshinkai Yoshinkan Aikido
Location: Portsmouth
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Posts: 450
England
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Re: Training in other schools of aikido

Quote:
I belong to an aikikai organization and have been training for quite a while. I have also wanted to train other schools of aikido simultaneous with my present aikikai style to broad my knowledge and hopefully my skill as well. The problem is - my teacher will never permit it. I have not asked him yet but I know he will not as even the utter of Iwama-ryu brings disgust to his face. At one time, someone gave me a brochure of a Yoshinkan school that was nicely done which I then passed to him to have a look. Without a glance, he threw it into the waste-paper basket obvious to the rest of the class.

As I have invested much time and money thus far, I jeopardize my prospect of getting a shodan by being kicked out the Aikikai dojo if I am caught training in another style. Does it mean I am being disloyal to my teacher and Aikikai? I know I am not but how can I convince my teacher?
Sorry, I am coming in late on this one!

Why would any Aikikai teacher object to anyone practicing Yoshinkan? The first Doshu always addressed Kancho Gozo Shioda Sensei as "Sempai", so what gives any junior Aikikai instructor (read as ALL) the right to dis' the school that the first Aikikai Doshu held in such regard?

I will say, that practicing with and grading in are extremely dificult. My teacher used to say that you can't climb 2 mountains at once! You can learn from how to climb another mountain.

Osu!
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Old 03-23-2005, 03:07 PM   #79
siwilson
Dojo: Kenshinkai Yoshinkan Aikido
Location: Portsmouth
Join Date: May 2002
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England
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Re: Training in other schools of aikido

Quote:
David Yap wrote:
Jean,

I tend not to agree with you. In the past (> 50 years ago), I may agree with you. What if his teacher makes his living by instructing aikido or any MA for that matter? The student now pays for his lesson - it is not simply a teacher-student relationship but also vendor-client relationship. When the student first joins a dojo, he is told to fill a form (his name, address, contact, etc.) and probably a waiver. I don't think allegiance is mentioned or implied anywhere.

I speak as a former dojo-cho (karate). I don't demand allegiance from my students, I allow them to train in any MA discipline or with other style of karate. While I taught Shotokan, I train Goju-ryu and aikido. "Armed" with these knowledge, I can answer their questions appropriately. The loyalty I gain from my students (past & present) is not from a teacher-student relationship but rather from our friendship - the sharing of knowledge, the open-mindedness, the trust and honesty with one and other. I always tell my students not to accept my answers as the honest truth but to put them to test and they should share their findings, good or bad, with everyone including myself. I feel I can learn as much from my students by teaching them or looking at their movements and from their experience from other MA disciplines.

Change is inevitable, growth is optional and tradition should be preserved (Shu Ha Ri). The truth is Allegiance is not a Tradition.

Happy training

David Y
David

If I found myself being in a "Vendor - Client" situation, that would be me leaving a dojo! Fortunately I don't have to worry about that at all.

One question - Dojo Cho (Ego)? Why the need to quote that title? Is Sensei not enough?

Si

Osu!
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Old 03-23-2005, 03:28 PM   #80
Jane Woodcock
 
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Dojo: Kuma Aikido, see web site
Location: England
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Re: Training in other schools of aikido

I have always been encouraged to train when and where I want. This I will continue to do. i have been told by my association that the hours will not count. For me, that is fine. I am still able to train when and where I want. It expands my aikido and allows me to see how others train. I would feel stifled if I was told I could not do this or that style. The more places i go, the better my aikido. Whose right is it to not allow me that choice?
Because of the attitude of my association, (I can train wherever), I am loyal to it. What more can I ask for?
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Old 03-27-2005, 08:44 PM   #81
David Yap
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 561
Malaysia
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Re: Training in other schools of aikido

Hi all,

The purpose of ones training (especially in aikido) is to avoid conflicts and learn to be polite. Hence, I was reluctant to respond to this post. I was not sure whether the remark was made to create a conflict or it was created due to misguidance or ignorance; so I viewed the public profile of the poster and his website and it seems like the remark arose from the later.

Quote:
Si Wilson wrote:
David

If I found myself being in a "Vendor - Client" situation, that would be me leaving a dojo! Fortunately I don't have to worry about that at all.
Congrats. You are indeed one of the lucky few. The reality is we are now in the economical era where almost everything is driven by money.

Quote:
One question - Dojo Cho (Ego)? Why the need to quote that title? Is Sensei not enough?
Ego? (LOL) Tell me who doesn't have one. On the contrary when I posted, I chose the term "dojo-cho" in the context of its oriental (East Asiatic) meaning. The term ‘Dojo-cho' refers to a position and/or occupation (i.e. being a doctor, a lawyer, a clerk, a dojo operator or even a housewife) as opposed to ‘sensei' which is a title of address (kind of like Mr., Ms., Mrs., Madam or Sir). In the first place, I would not address myself as a sensei (meaning "the one who come before"), it is my students' prerogative to address me as David sensei or uncle David or just sir or teacher or plain David.

From the oriental point of view, we find it many Westerners silly (I am being polite, of course) when they addressed themselves as sensei (and some even go to as far to use titles such as Shihan/Sifu and Soke) in their personal profile. I believe Peter Goldsbury sensei has recently discussed the usage of "sensei" in another thread here.

Happy researching.

David Y
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Old 03-27-2005, 09:25 PM   #82
Janet Rosen
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Re: Training in other schools of aikido

AFAIK, a dojocho and a chief instructor may be different people and therefore it is a matter of semantic clarity to use one or the other.

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 03-28-2005, 03:13 AM   #83
siwilson
Dojo: Kenshinkai Yoshinkan Aikido
Location: Portsmouth
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 450
England
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Re: Training in other schools of aikido

Quote:
David Yap wrote:
I was not sure whether the remark was made to create a conflict or it was created due to misguidance or ignorance; so I viewed the public profile of the poster and his website and it seems like the remark arose from the later.
Hi David

With over 20 years in martial arts (started as a tot), I hope I am not as ignorant as you think. The post was not having a go, but in martial arts now there are many throwing titles around and I must admit that you are the first person I have ever heard address themselves as "Dojo Cho", hence the question.

Anyway, regards to you, hope you enjoyed the website of my new school which I joined last year, sadly leaving one I had been in for quite some time.

Si

Last edited by siwilson : 03-28-2005 at 03:16 AM.

Osu!
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Old 03-28-2005, 03:25 AM   #84
siwilson
Dojo: Kenshinkai Yoshinkan Aikido
Location: Portsmouth
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 450
England
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Re: Training in other schools of aikido

Quote:
David Yap wrote:
Congrats. You are indeed one of the lucky few. The reality is we are now in the economical era where almost everything is driven by money.
This is why I scrapped my plan to open a full-time Aikido dojo. We had it worked out, when I trained my wife up to shodana couple of years back, she was going to run it through the day until it earned enough for me to leave my job. The reality is that it changes what you do, so I practice my Aikido and earn my money else-where. It was not for me, but good luck to those who it is for - I'll stay not for profit.



Si

Osu!
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Old 04-04-2005, 02:44 AM   #85
David Yap
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 561
Malaysia
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Re: Training in other schools of aikido

Quote:
Si Wilson wrote:
... I hope I am not as ignorant as you think ...
Si
Hi Si,

Perhaps it is not your fault. I have come across glossaries in many martial art books that simply say sensei = teacher. When I was growing up, the neighbor kids would address my dad as "sensei" and I would address theirs as "sensei" too. I knew my dad wasn't a teacher but neither did I know what their fathers did for living.

The funny part is that Westerners (particularly in UK) prefer to use "sensei" as a prefix, example Sensei Wilson, whole in the real oriental context it is actually used as suffix, i.e. Wilson sensei.

Kind regards

David Y
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