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Old 01-23-2005, 09:49 PM   #1
Nick P.
 
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What!?

No word of a lie:
Watching Star Trek: Enterprise this evening

Yoshi: "I broke my Commanding Officer's arm."
Tripp: "How'd you do that?"
Yoshi: "He wanted to break-up the after hours poker game I was running; when he tried to sweep the chips off the table, I broke his arm. I have a black belt in Aikido."

Nick, sitting on the sofa: "WHAT!"

I can just see the next Star Trek convention (a-la-Simpsons)
"Ms. Park, in episode 87: Observer Effect, while in quarantine with Commander Tucker your character said she was a black belt in Aikido. Can you tell us which style of aikido that would be, and if you thought it would work against the Klingon martial art Mok'bara?"

Groan.

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Old 01-23-2005, 10:52 PM   #2
Colbs
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Re: What!?

As long as after that question was asked, someone throws a sharpened linux CD at the asker, I'm happy.

I HATE star-trek, well, except for the chicks in tight clothes - I like chicks in tight clothes.
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Old 01-23-2005, 11:09 PM   #3
Sue Hammerich
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Re: What!?

I actually like the Saturday Night Live version (with William Shatner) of the "Trekkie" conventions. I can't say that I can relate to the Star Trek reference. That isn't to say that I haven't seen every episode of the original - I think that I have. But hey, I'd be willing to bet that, unlike other large gatherings of people, there probably aren't a lot of fights to break up. I imagine that there aren't a lot of fights to break up at Aikido seminars, either.
Let it be said that this is written from the perspective of someone from a neighborhood where rumbles occur, not infrequently

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Old 01-23-2005, 11:10 PM   #4
wendyrowe
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Re: What!?

I liked the original, with Uhuru wearing the miniskirted uniform with the "go-go boots" (as we called them at the time). I hadn't realized how silly we were -- hey, I was only 8 so I had an excuse -- til I grew up and saw the reruns. What's entertaining now is seeing some of the HS girls at my son's school dressing like that (well, no insignia; just miniskirt and boots and a lot of leg exposed to the frigid New England winter).

But if Yoshi was a black belt in aikido, she should have just controlled him with nikkyo or sankyo and maybe a swordhand behind the shoulder. Breaking his arm is so ... karate!
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Old 01-23-2005, 11:47 PM   #5
Huker
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Re: What!?

In defense of Star Trek and Aikido, it is possible that Aikido would have changed since Star Trek takes place in the future. In other words, the Aikido of the future might involve breaking arms. C'mon. Some aliens are really tough, I bet.

Also, it is possible to break someone's arm using an Aikdio technique. Although, this betrays the philosophy of the art, which is half of the picture. On top of that, it is a black belt we're talking about, so I would hope that by 1st dan one would have enough control to avoid breaking an arm during a technique.
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Old 01-24-2005, 12:14 AM   #6
Kevin Temple
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Re: What!?

Oh man, I love enterprise..... what a good show. When Hoshi admitted to knowing Aikido it made really happy, because enterprise rocks and so does Aikido, so its a winning combination. Now it would be sweet to get some Aikido fight scenes against aliens in there. And boy would I have been upset if she died
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Old 01-24-2005, 05:37 AM   #7
wendyrowe
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Re: What!?

Kevin's right -- it's "Hoshi" not "Yoshi" (and I got it wrong; oh, the shame of it!). Nick, your mission is to boldly go watch more ST:Enterprise -- 50 reps on each side generally helps a lot with remembering a technique, so you'll have to find a second couch to switch to while you're watching to get the most benefit.
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Old 01-24-2005, 08:30 AM   #8
Nick P.
 
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Re: What!?

Quote:
Wendy Rowe wrote:
Kevin's right -- it's "Hoshi" not "Yoshi" (and I got it wrong; oh, the shame of it!). Nick, your mission is to boldly go watch more ST:Enterprise -- 50 reps on each side generally helps a lot with remembering a technique, so you'll have to find a second couch to switch to while you're watching to get the most benefit.
OMG, that's hilarious! Well done!

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Old 01-24-2005, 08:45 AM   #9
Nick P.
 
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Re: What!?

Quote:
Kevin Temple wrote:
Oh man, I love enterprise..... what a good show. When Hoshi admitted to knowing Aikido it made really happy, because enterprise rocks and so does Aikido, so its a winning combination. Now it would be sweet to get some Aikido fight scenes against aliens in there. And boy would I have been upset if she died
Yeah, but that's why they have a team of Star Fleet Marines on-board with rifles and side-arms; they don't meet hostile boarders at the hatch with "Please, grab my wrist."

Though if they REALLY wanted to project the image of non-hostile explorers they would have no weapons of any type, I think.

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Old 01-24-2005, 11:10 AM   #10
Sue Hammerich
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Re: What!?

Quote:
Nick Pittson wrote:
Yeah, but that's why they have a team of Star Fleet Marines on-board with rifles and side-arms; they don't meet hostile boarders at the hatch with "Please, grab my wrist."

Now THOSE are the cats who should be wearing Go-Go boots!

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Old 01-24-2005, 12:49 PM   #11
Qatana
 
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Re: What!?

As we all know I am a hard core Trekkie but i can barely tolerate Enterprise.I've missed the entire season. Just because I forget to watch. Every week.

If I need to break somebody's arm in order to prevent worse damage to either my attacker or, more importantly myself, I bloody well will do that. If you're stuck on a starship and can't run away, you do what you gotta to keep 'em down.

Q
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"It is not wise to be incautious when confronting a little smiling bald man"'- Rule #1
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Old 01-24-2005, 12:59 PM   #12
wendyrowe
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Re: What!?

Quote:
Jo Adell wrote:
If I need to break somebody's arm in order to prevent worse damage to either my attacker or, more importantly myself, I bloody well will do that. If you're stuck on a starship and can't run away, you do what you gotta to keep 'em down.
Hordes of violent aliens, OK -- but your Captain because he's breaking up your poker game? Sounds a bit too far up the Use of Force continuum for me!

Of course, poker might have evolved by then into something that made the arm-breaking appropriate. In which case the only question is, what technique did she use? Some sort of poka waza, obviously.
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Old 01-24-2005, 02:45 PM   #13
Qatana
 
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Re: What!?

Well, we really don't know what they were playing FOR ,do we?

Ok, do *I*?

Q
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Old 01-24-2005, 05:21 PM   #14
Nick P.
 
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Re: What!?

http://www.startrek.com/startrek/vie...sode/7803.html

and if anyone knows where to find the entire transcript, please post it
(and don't forget to plug http://cbg.nohomers.net/)

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Old 02-01-2005, 09:10 AM   #15
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Wink Just the opposite

[quote=Jo Adell]As we all know I am a hard core Trekkie but i can barely tolerate Enterprise.I've missed the entire season. Just because I forget to watch. Every week.

I grew up with Kirk and Spock, loved Piccard but I avoided Deep Space 9 and all post Piccard STNG because a woman captain with an awful shreaking nasal voice made the show unbelievable. Now finally, years later, Enterprise puts the story line back on track.

As far as breaking an arm in Aikido, we teach techniques and point out all the places where there is the danger of breaking an arm etc and say leave that for the street. Any martial art dealing with joint locks can do some serious damage and I see nothing surprising that Hoshi did so. It is great news that the writers had the wisdom to know Aikido would be a preferred martial art in the future. And as far as the soldiers on board as they went up against the that race ?? that was building the machine to take out Earth, watch those sparring sessions and tell me you dont see some Aikido in them.
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Old 02-01-2005, 10:29 AM   #16
kironin
 
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Re: What!?

Yeah I grew up with Kirk and Spock too. At the same time I was reading hard science fiction in the Isaac Asimov, Poul anderson, Arthur C. Clark, Frederick Pohl, Rober Heinlien, Harlan Ellison tradition. Writers and stories shaped by the John W Campbell's Astounding Science Fiction magazine era. At the same time I was eating up books like the "philosophy of quantum mechanics" and trying to understand Hilbert spaces and tensor caclulus and the difference between bosons and fermions. In other words I think I qualify for the nerdy kid who likes Spock award.

Enterprise is the best series since the original ST. It has been good from the get go. The intro is the best since the original "go where no man has gone before..." except that I wished they hadn't messed with the tempo of the song after the first season. Doesn't have quite the same feel.

The STNG was dreadful for the first season and probably didn't really start to gel until the third season or so. Data finally became the interesting heir to the Spock role. ST Deep Space Nine also took awhile to find it's tone as an esemble and to discover it's frontier (delta quadrant). It wasn't a winner out of the box either. ST Voyager was the hardest to love because the acting was so over the top at first (particularly the Janeway character and the Doctor), A male version of Kirk was more than enough. A female version of Kick trying to channel Picard was like nails on a chalkboard. Eventually there were some interesting story lines and Janeway got toned down quite a bit. Tying this a little bit into aikido, aka George Ledyard's excellent essay. You would think in an advanced future society like the Federation, highly trained female leaders like Janeway might understand enough about themselves and managing others that they would know how to lead in a different way than aping male leader characteristics given the enlightened training at ST fleet academy. sigh, limitations of Hollywood showing through.

ST Enterprise has been easy to like since the get go. Perhaps going back to the beginning and reigning in the glut of techno fantasy that tended to plague the later time period ones has helped a bit with forging interesting stories and characters. Also because the humans are supposed to be less advanced culturally, the actors are more in their element. Though they really need to resist the time travel bits from the future destiny junk. It's best when it stays to the theme of wandering out in the big bad unknown universe and playing it by the seat of the pants. That plays back in to the original ST intent as a science fiction version of a Wagon Trail adventure out into the American West frontier.

Last edited by kironin : 02-01-2005 at 10:43 AM.

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Old 02-01-2005, 10:47 AM   #17
Bill Danosky
 
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Re: What!?

I wouldn't think human waza would work on many aliens. Surely there is more difference between us and them than some sort of ridge on their nose, right?
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Old 02-01-2005, 12:53 PM   #18
Nick P.
 
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Re: What!?

Maybe some races have evolved to be immune to an otherwise paralyzing sankyo.
And would not the Vulcans just shut pain out of their minds altogether? Interesting....
Now if you will excuse me, I must locate a female Klingon and try and execute iriminage while she tries to break my collarbone. You hard-core Trekkies know what I mean <wink,wink-nudge,nudge>

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Old 02-01-2005, 01:17 PM   #19
Nick P.
 
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Re: Just the opposite

Quote:
Dave Hungerford wrote:
As far as breaking an arm in Aikido, we teach techniques and point out all the places where there is the danger of breaking an arm etc and say leave that for the street. Any martial art dealing with joint locks can do some serious damage and I see nothing surprising that Hoshi did so.
I agree, BUT, and this is important I think, SHE did not say "I have a black belt in aikido, and though I was taught to not break things, I did just that to his arm." or something to that effect. She could have easily subsituted aikido with ju-jitsu (in the way she delivered her line) and it would have been the same.

It's like hearing someone say "Yeah, I ditched a 747 into the ocean; I'm an airline pilot" maybe not the best comparison, but close enough.

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Old 02-01-2005, 03:16 PM   #20
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Re: What!?

This is kind of a fun thread. I caught that Hoshi line too when I watched that episode. Although it does give those who aren't familiar with aikido a more meancing image of the art, it would definitely be within the realm of possibility. I'm sure everybody here realizes that if we apply some of our techniques to people who didn't know how to take the proper ukemi that things, such as wrists or arms could easily break. I always find it interesting that a lot of beginners or observers think that an uke is taking a nice break-fall from kote-gaeshi or whatever because the nage caused them to fall like that. When in reality what they fail to understand is that the nage is just doing the technique and the uke is the one choosing to take that ukemi to protect themselves from getting their wrist broken or some other injury. The same technique applied to a person without ukemi knowledge would definitely have a less pretty outcome for that person.

Anyway, nice to know that aikido lives on in the future. Okay, for you hard core Star Trek fans do you remember in the first season of ST:TNG when Tasha Yar demonstrates aikido in the holodeck? Sorry I'm not an avid enough fan to remember the exact episode and I only saw it once but I seemed to remember that scene. I saw it before I started aikido so I don't know what aikido techniques if any were shown. But me recollection was that it didn't look too much like aikido.
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Old 02-01-2005, 03:57 PM   #21
Ron Tisdale
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Re: What!?

Quote:
A male version of Kirk was more than enough. A female version of Kick trying to channel Picard was like nails on a chalkboard.
Once again, Craig has said it all...and much better than I ever could...

RT

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Old 02-01-2005, 04:54 PM   #22
Pauliina Lievonen
 
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Re: What!?

Well, just to be contrary, I always liked Janeway. Maybe you had to grow up in Finland for that to happen, lol. I think I identify with her. Both my husband and I are great fans of the doctor, too.

Like the Enterprise, too, I like the "gritty" feel of it, you really feel like on a real ship, not a luxury cruise... I think the women in that series are less interesting than the ones in Voyager, though.

kvaak
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Old 02-01-2005, 05:25 PM   #23
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Re: What!?

Quote:
Bill Danosky wrote:
I wouldn't think human waza would work on many aliens. Surely there is more difference between us and them than some sort of ridge on their nose, right?

many kokyunage with some adaptations should be universal especially when dealling with bipeds. Biomechanics of a biped is not likely to change too much especially as it seems that intelligent bipeds tend to be generalist with relatively weak limbs (eg. Humans are definitely the wimps of the monkey tree -- humans (the Savannah upright walking brainy chimps) vs. chimpanzees (tree dwelling adapted chimps with muscle attachments placed for greater leverage)

and the ST universe is just invested with bipeds everywhere.

Not infrequently these bipeds are using primitive weapons like knives or swords.

but then again is is often said that aikido is better understood in the context of armed combatants.

what does zero-g aikido look like ?

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Old 02-01-2005, 07:31 PM   #24
Thomas Ambrose
 
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Re: What!?

Maybe Captain Archer had really bad ukemi...

Plus, in Star Trek days, I don't think a broken arm is that big of a deal. Riker broke his arm playing Parises Squares in TNG and Doctor Crusher used some kind of "Bone healing gadget thingy" on him, or something like that.... [Sigh, I know, I know....]

... though I am a die-hard trekkie, I am proud to say that I never really got into Voyager or Enterprise. I think the high point was TNG, but TOS is sweet too!

At any rate, perhaps we will eventually see Aikido paired up against Mok'Bara and resolve the bat'leth debate once and for all!

Last edited by Thomas Ambrose : 02-01-2005 at 07:33 PM.
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Old 02-01-2005, 08:06 PM   #25
Qatana
 
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Re: What!?

I never liked Janeway but i though she was a much better Kirk than Riker was. I don't think she was trying to channel Picard at all!
DS9 broke every rule Roddenberry wrote, and I still watch it over & over.But its the only soap opera I've been strung out on...

Hmmm,bat'leth takeaways...

Q
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