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Old 01-24-2005, 07:40 AM   #26
ian
 
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Re: Don't waste your time practicing AIKIDO

Quote:
Khaled Abdullah wrote:
Hi every 1
1. Aikido doesn't require fitness so most aikido players are old, fat and not strong enough"
2. you can not attack in aikido you just receiving and waiting what the attackers will do"
3. many aikido techniques depend on grabbing which is rarely happen in real fights"
4. aikido focuses on hands to applying its techniques and ignores the rest of the body, no kicks no punches no jumping"
5. aikido is only good for seminars and demonstrations"
6. aikido is too traditional, no body use sword in our world today"
7. aikido is a philosophy more than a combat way"
1. true, but fitness is useful in self-defence. Good aikidoka will try to improve their fitness as well (Ueshiba was supposed to be quite strong). Age will tend to decrease physical ability.
2. false; many of the techniques derive from restrain 'attacks' or can lead from a defence (e.g. block) to an attack.
3. false; grabbing does happen in real attacks, and to a large extent grabbing is just an early stage in learning connecting with your opponent.
4. Kicks are possible, but they limit your ability to move your body (1 foot is raised so you have to hop). The whole body is used in aikido, because we move the whole body.
5. not true; aikido learns responses from sudden unpredictable attacks from anywhere, whereas other martial arts often train against set attack types or do sparring where the opponent is obvious.
6. We don't learn ken-jitsu, we learn aiki-ken. The sword work is there purely to develop the unarmed techniques.
7. Competitive martial arts are usually fight orientated i.e. one opponent, often assume there are matts and pads. Aikido is self-defence orientated i.e. producing a level of agression appropriate to the situation (e.g. a simple nikkyo or gently breaking of a grip can prevent escalation of a fight). Aikido also assumes that if you go to the floor you are lost (which is true in a multiple attack) and that there can be more than one attacker, and they could be armed with anything (and often you don't even known if they are armed).

'Fights' are different from attacks. If you want to look cool and reinforce your ego you learn to fight. If you want to resolve conflicts or survive attacks (esp. multiple or knife attacks) aikido is your best option.

I have used aikido many times, and although it is maybe not as satisfying as destroying someone with punches or kicks; it is much more effective for conflict resolution and in my experience it minimises injuries on both sides.

---understanding aikido is understanding the training method---
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Old 01-24-2005, 08:01 AM   #27
dawolfie
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Re: Don’t waste your time practicing AIKIDO

I think some critics of Aikido are so critical because of the length of time it takes for someone to understand the principles of Aikido, much less be able to use it.

It has some to do in how you view yourself and your own growth. The live in student in our dojo works very very hard at his AIkido, he wants to have a dojo one day and share what he has learned. Not because he is self conscious or afraid of the world, but because he wants to learn Aikido to the fullest extent.

Unless you are in the dojo for any amount of time, Aikido cannot be fully appreciated. After a handful of years, I still go in and find new things. There is just too many aspects of Aikido to be learned from a demonstration.

As far as fitness, that is also up to the student. We work out pretty hard. I lost over 30 lbs and a lady in our class lost 70lbs! Not because it is not a fitness workout, but because we push ourselves and attack as fast as we can be thrown. That is another thing so rarely overlooked, the ukemi. Where else can your learning be based on how well you can take a technique. Rolling and breakfalls are not easy, eventually they become natural, but never easy.
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Old 01-24-2005, 09:18 AM   #28
pezalinski
 
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Re: Don't waste your time practicing AIKIDO

Well, the best response I can give is anecdotal:
An Aikidoka, a Judoka, a Karateka, and a "general fighting arts" guy, all friends and all advanced students in their respective styles, were walking through a bad part of town after classes and got jumped by a gang of about 20 guys, many armed with sticks and knives. (This is not a joke -- I was told this by the judo guy of the story.). They survived and got the better end of the fight, and as the four friends were counting coup, afterwards, the Judo guy (who'd taken a few superficial knife wounds) complained to the others that the Aikido guy must have just stood there, because he was the only one of them who wasn't dirty, cut, bruised, or visibly wounded. The generalist said, no, the aikidoka was the one who took out the most guys, because he didn't get caught up in one-on-one conflicts -- he just went through the crowd like a scythe, turning and tossing guys into one another and into walls, telephone poles, and each other. In their post-game analysis, the Judo and Karate guys tended to focus too much on a single attacker, and were often nailed by a third party who took advantage of their focus; the "generalist" was more Hapkido-oriented, and did more specific damage to his opponent -- but he also was too one-on-one focused. Those three also had a "take a hit to make a hit" concept as part of their styles, so they all three took damage of some sort, and took it in stride. The aikidoka was the only one who was really effective in a melee, and was otherwise unscathed -- and as a result, the other three martial artists decided to take up aikido. (The judoka has been practicing Aikido exclusively for over 15 years now, so this story is fairly old -- before gangs routinely carried guns in California; I think he placed it in the mid-1980's.)

Quote:
"Aikido doesn't require fitness so most aikido players are old, fat and not strong enough"
- strong enough for what? IMHO, if you rely on strength, you will be beaten by strength...

Quote:
" you can not attack in aikido you just receiving and waiting what the attackers will do"
IMHO, only as beginner -- advanced students perceive the intention to attack, and preempt the attacker -- leading his intention away from an actual attack OR into an attack one is prepared to handle.

Quote:
" many aikido techniques depend on grabbing which is rarely happen in real fights"
So do Jujitsu, Judo, Wingchun, Kung Fu, wrestling and many many styles of other arts -- grappling is a 'closing' attack. Have any of these guys been in a "real" fight ?

Quote:
" aikido focuses on hands to applying its techniques and ignores the rest of the body, no kicks no punches no jumping"
All I can say, is you've never worked out with my sensei... ATEMI - ATEMI - ATEMI

Any competent Taekwando or Karate instructor will tell you that the jumping high kicks are suicide unless the opponent is already dazed or otherwise unaware of your attack. (There is plenty of power, but you are totally committed to that attack -- if you screw it up, you've screwed up big time.)

Low kicks to the knees and ankles are the most effective, atemi-wise (can't stand, can't fight). They also can cause the most serious damage with the least amount of force (knees and ankles have serious weak points, my friend). These are some of the reasons we don't train much using kicks -- it' too easy to cause serious damage (non-Ai-Ki). Strikes are what we use in aikido to redirect an opponent's attention and energy, not to destroy him.

Quote:
" aikido is only good for seminars and demonstrations"
Admittedly, aikidoists are the only ones I know of who can put on a demo at a moments notice, with little or no prep to "stage" the combat, and still use effective , full-speed techniques on their opponents. This is supposed to be a weakness?

Quote:
" aikido is too traditional, no body use sword in our world today"
-- what is a machete if not a sword when it is used against persons throughout the third world?

Quote:
" aikido is a philosophy more than a combat way"
Here I would agree with them -- Ai-Ki-Do is not designed to teach you how to kill people quickly (often a goal during combat); that would make it an oxymoron. Again, I ask, is that a bad thing?

Last edited by pezalinski : 01-24-2005 at 09:27 AM.
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Old 01-24-2005, 09:37 AM   #29
Adam Alexander
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Re: Don’t waste your time practicing AIKIDO

"Here I would agree with them -- Ai-Ki-Do is not designed to teach you how to kill people quickly (often a goal during combat); that would make it an oxymoron. Again, I ask, is that a bad thing?"

depends on the style you train, I think. Seems like the difference between life and death in a moment while using Irimi Nage is simply the placement of your knee and placement of the attacker.
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Old 01-24-2005, 03:47 PM   #30
darin
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Re: Don't waste your time practicing AIKIDO

Quote:
Khaled Abdullah wrote:
Is aikido useful and effective in real situation and against other martial arts?
I think pezalinski gave a great answer!
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Old 01-24-2005, 04:21 PM   #31
maikerus
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Re: Don't waste your time practicing AIKIDO

Quote:
Ian Dodkins wrote:
...although it is maybe not as satisfying as destroying someone with punches or kicks; it is much more effective for conflict resolution and in my experience....
I think this is a really good observation. The satisfaction you feel when you hit/kick something when you are angry (I'm pretty sure everyone has done this to something) is easily translated into the satisfaction you expect to feel when hitting/kicking in training. When you watch a demo of a MA that does that you can relate to it. It's hard to relate to the satisfaction of smoothly executing a controlled move that you see in a demo and only experience will give you that satisfaction. Those that only watch Aikido are destined to never understand the satisfaction of those that practice.

Peter...great story. I had never thought about it like that, but it seems to follow from our training. Thanks.

--Michael

Hiriki no yosei 3 - The kihon that makes your head ache instead of your legs
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Old 01-24-2005, 06:28 PM   #32
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Re: Don't waste your time practicing AIKIDO

Quote:
Ben McClean wrote:
...What I believe these people are not realizing is that Aikido isn't just about punching and kicking and all the other physical stuff its about not being in a situation in the first place and if you do have no other choice, to deal with it with as little or no injury to the other person and yourself. ...its about not being in the situation in the first place.


Absolutely...
some people from my dojo went to the bar to be social and the newest akidoka asked our sensei if/when she had ever used the techniques that we are learning and she said:

Learning MA is more than learning the techiniques but understanding when there is a preson or a situation that is not safe and having the sense to stay away if possible. If its not possible to get out then you are prepared...

I just find that this meets my intentions... be ready but there's no need to be 'fists of fury' from the get-go!
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Old 01-24-2005, 07:56 PM   #33
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Re: Don’t waste your time practicing AIKIDO

Hello everyone. This is a very interesting post. I am in the Army and just returned from Iraq. I can tell you that pain compliance techniques, such as sankkyo and nikkyo are very effective in "real life." I can also tell you that kaeshinage and iriminage are also effective. Now I will tell you some Aikido techniques are less effective in high stress situations, not because they are ineffective, but because they require more instictive motor skills then most of us have in a fight. A well trained (tens of years) aikidoka may move instinctively, but most (myself included) don't.

For truely effective combat techniques, learn four or five that work from almost any attack. I recommend kotegaeshi, iriminage, nikkyo, ikkyo, shihonage. Practice these from any attack wearing what you normally wear and increase speed as proficiency increases. Vary location and space available to simulate different situations. If you truly doubt these techniques effectiveness, go watch a law enforcement submission class at FLETC (Federal Law Enforcement Training Center) or the FBI Academy (they are teaching these). These techniques are also fundamental in the new Marine Corps martial art program. Finally go vist a Krav Maga training center and you'll see these techniques are very similar to the ones being taught in their class. For those not familiar, Krav Maga is the combat system of the Israeli Defense Forces. Whether or not you think favorably about Israeli politics, their soldiers are well trained and this is what they teach.

Finally, I recommend reading Warrior Spirit by Richard Heckler-Stozzi (I think I spelled that right). It is about a recently declassified project the US Army did with the 10th Special Forces (it says 20th in the book, but it should be 10th) and it involved Aikido training. The government doesn't choose these arts on an impulse, there was definite research and thought behind their choice. If the Army elected to spend millions teaching Special Forces Aikido I tend to believe it's effectiveness.

Greg Makuch
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Old 01-24-2005, 11:00 PM   #34
xuzen
 
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Re: Don't waste your time practicing AIKIDO

Hi Khaled,

This is the second part of my post...
Quote:
aikido focuses on hands to applying its techniques and ignores the rest of the body, no kicks no punches no jumping"
"
Are you crazy? Doing high kick and jumping around against an aikidoka? Ask you sensei to show technique against kicks. You will be amazed how similar they are with your standard textbook technique.

Quote:
aikido is only good for seminars and demonstrations"
"
Yeah, so is TKD, Karate, Wushu. Isn't breaking boards and bricks also display of showmanship?

Quote:
aikido is too traditional, no body use sword in our world today
Sword in aikido is used as a teaching tool. It is used to teach distance, footwork and posture. You are right, it would be really silly to carry a sword in a fight nowadays. An Uzi would be better or my favourite, a Tommy Gun of the Al Capone days.

Quote:
aikido is a philosophy more than a combat way
Yeah, yeah, so are all those arts that end with Do. One has to start at the physical level and mature towards the philosophical. I must admit, I am still at the physical level of internship.

Quote:
I didn't lose my faith in aikido, but between u and me aren't they have right in some thoughts???
Glad you still have faith in aikido. Tell you dojo mates to chill out, if they think aikido is all of the above, ask them to spar with your seniors for educational purpose.

Quote:
Is aikido useful and effective in real situation and against other martial arts?
Yes, all martial arts are effective. If not; they would not have survive until now. They would have die a natural death.

Boon.

SHOMEN-ATE (TM), the solution to 90% of aikido and life's problems.
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Old 01-26-2005, 03:07 AM   #35
David Yap
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Re: Don't waste your time practicing AIKIDO

Quote:
Bridget Chung wrote:
May i point out. Aikidoists have been the MOST open minded of ALL martial arts collectives I have ever met. And I've hopped between quite a few styles too.
Sorry Bridget, I tend to disagree with your generalization. Perhaps you may have meet those aikidoists who have x-trained in other budo before. IMO, due to the non-competitive doctrine of aikido there tend to be more "my dad can beat your dad" characters among my aikido peers. I once had a drink with a visiting instructor after class. He was told that I was a yudansha in karate. When he asked me what was I doing there (in an aikido dojo), I presumably thought he wanted to know why an ex-karate instructor be interested in training aikido. I merely replied in jest that I train for spiritual reason (in an ethical sense). To this, he burst out in loud laughter and said, "You mean there are spirits in your dojo" [is your dojo haunted?]. That was the first time I made my acquaintance with him. A couple of days later, the same person rang up my dojo instructor to warn him not to trust me, thus giving the impression to my dojo instructor that we have been acquainted for a long time.

At a recent seminar, I bumped into a senior instructor from another dojo - one thing he said after our formal greetings was, "Your karate must have reeeaaally improved a lot". All these remarks were made to assume I train aikido to improve my karate skills. I admit x-training do give me better insight and understanding of my budo arts - meaning I can applied various principles that I come to understand (which are almost the same) across my other disciplines - aikido, archery, golf and karate, etc. Because of my prior MA, it took me a relative short time to pick up aikido compared to those who don't. When I first took up the art, the instructor told me "to empty the cup". Having been there, my advice to those who intend to x-train is not to do that but to filter, sort, adopt or discard. Learning needs rationalizing, "monkey sees and monkey does" would not take you anywhere further from where you start. If you are not prepare to this, then don't waste the time and the money. Also, etiquette requires one to follow instructions to the details wherever dojo one trains. Being a "smartass" also means being rude - unless you happen to train a MMA environment keep your MA to the respective class.

In way what I said about gaining spiritualism from aikido is right, it is a test of ones tolerance (keeping ones center so to speak). In other competitive MA discipline, the size of ones ego is always keep in check - skillfully & physically proven.

That's my humble observation.

David Y

Last edited by David Yap : 01-26-2005 at 03:13 AM.
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Old 01-26-2005, 07:13 PM   #36
Qatana
 
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Re: Don’t waste your time practicing AIKIDO

However. David, Bridget was making a completely Subjective statement. You even quoted it! She does not make a sweeping generalisation, she was relating from Her direct experience, and you tried to contradict it with your own.
Both of your experiences are valid. Neither right nor wrong. Just your own.

Q
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Old 01-26-2005, 07:34 PM   #37
xuzen
 
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Re: Don’t waste your time practicing AIKIDO

I've just realised something wrt this thread. Khaled the original thread starter has actually never replied. Hmmm I am wondering if we are being trolled again? Just curious.

Boon.

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Old 01-26-2005, 08:00 PM   #38
PeterR
 
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Re: Don’t waste your time practicing AIKIDO

Of course we are - you guys are just soooooo easy.

We should all read Phil's Field Guide to Trolls.

I don't think too much of Phil's opinions but credit where credit's due - its a job well done.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 01-26-2005, 08:33 PM   #39
David Yap
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Re: Don't waste your time practicing AIKIDO

Quote:
Peter Rehse wrote:
Of course we are - you guys are just soooooo easy.

We should all read Phil's Field Guide to Trolls.

I don't think too much of Phil's opinions but credit where credit's due - its a job well done.
Thanks for the link, Peter. There are so many classifications that can fit any one of us here. Jun, the owner, is excluded for course.

Quote:
Jo Adell wrote:
However. David, Bridget was making a completely Subjective statement. You even quoted it! She does not make a sweeping generalization, she was relating from Her direct experience, and you tried to contradict it with your own.
Jo, I assumed she has made a "Hasty" generalization. I merely attempt to show people who do x-training are more "opened-minded" compared to those who train solely one art which I agree is a "subjective statement".

Regards

David Y

Last edited by David Yap : 01-26-2005 at 08:39 PM.
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Old 01-27-2005, 01:16 AM   #40
CNYMike
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Re: Don't waste your time practicing AIKIDO

Quote:
Khaled Abdullah wrote:
We have many different martial arts sessions going every day in that dojo like karate, taekwando, judo, jeet kune do and kung fu (wing chun). we always talk about martial arts and their effectiveness in real situations like street fighting
In the summer of 1997, and then from 1998 until 2003, I studied Kali under Guro Kevin Seaman at his academy in my home town of Cortland, New York. Guro Kevin has instructorships in Kali and Jun Fan/JKD from Guro Dan Inosanto. Guro had a palque on the wall with principles he wanted his students to remember. One of them has always stuck in my mind: "I will refrain from criticizing other styles and systems. They all have something to offer." Not an exact quote, but close enough. Esepcially if it's the Jun Fan/JKD guys giving you the most grief.

One of Guro Kevin's students is a Kali instructor in his own right, Guro Andy Astle. Guro Andy is also a full instructor in Jun Fan/Jeet Kune Do, and he as been allowed to teach Pentjak Silat Serak by Maha Guru Victor de Thouars. When I told Guro Andy I was thinking of resuming Aikido, did he tell me, "Don't waste your time"? NO! His exact words were, "Go for it! You'll be a better martial artist." Guro Kevin also supported my decision. Thinking about how Guro Kevin and Pembantu Andy have supported my resuming Aikido makes my blood boil when I read about JKD people giving Aikido people greif.

Oh, and Guro Andy's Kali/Serak class uses the same studio as the Aikido dojo I'm now in; on Friday nights, in fact, Kali is right after Aikido. There hasn't been any verbal sparring between the two groups AFAIK. In fact, a few weeks ago, one of the Aikido guys played with Andy's kids before he left.

Shooting at dawn is too good for the people you refer to. I think hung, drawn, and quartered comes close.

And about what they say:

Quote:
..... Here are some of their quotations:
"Aikido doesn't require fitness so most aikido players are old, fat and not strong enough"
Given the sweat I've worked up in Aikido class, it will probably HELP me get fit more than anything else. And my sensei is pretty lean.
Quote:
" you can not attack in aikido you just receiving and waiting what the attackers will do"
That's the common way to train in many systems; karateka should be familialr with "ippon kumite" or one-step sparring, where one partner attacks and the other practices defenses. The other night in Kail class, we practiced some replies to the jab, again "waiting" for the attack. But Aikido also "attacks," ie has nage initiate the action.
Quote:
" many aikido techniques depend on grabbing which is rarely happen in real fights"
I once saw a hockey game brawl on TV where two players had grabbed each other's jerseys and were whacking each other with their free hands. Aikido replies to the grab itself and to grab-and-strike combinations. Next.

Quote:
" aikido focuses on hands to applying its techniques and ignores the rest of the body, no kicks no punches no jumping"
Western boxing focuses only on the hands. It's all punching, no kicks, locks or throws. Aikido is not alone in specializing. What do the TKD guys do? The JKD people are the only ones with bragging rights here. Barely. Next.

Quote:
"aikido is only good for seminars and demonstrations"
What?

Quote:
" aikido is too traditional, no body use sword in our world today"
Nobody walks around with a stick in their right hand and a knife in their left, preapred for fights with other so-armed individuals, but Kali practitioners do espada y daga all the time.

Quote:
" aikido is a philosophy more than a combat way"
etc……
Well, it may emphasize philospohy more, but it varies from dojo to dojo. The first dojo I was in, under Sensei Jim Wallace, stopped and talked about it once in a while. The one I am in now just trains.

Quote:
I didn't lose my faith in aikido, but between u and me aren't they have right in some thoughts???
Given that the ones that weren't dead wrong could just as easily be said about other martial arts, even ones more "combative" than Aikido, I doubt it.
Quote:
Is aikido useful and effective in real situation and against other martial arts?
That's two questions.

If "real situation" means a self defense situation, there are enough people on this board to swear by it to give an opinion. Against other MA as in against the dorcs who are giving you grief, yes, but you'd have to know what you're doing.
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Old 01-27-2005, 01:38 AM   #41
Bridge
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Re: Don't waste your time practicing AIKIDO

Quote:
Jo Adell wrote:
However. David, Bridget was making a completely Subjective statement. You even quoted it! She does not make a sweeping generalisation, she was relating from Her direct experience, and you tried to contradict it with your own.
Both of your experiences are valid. Neither right nor wrong. Just your own.
Thanks for the back-up Jo

May I point out (if it ain't already obvious) my experience of martial arts is relatively limited. And I'm aware that any opinions I have of an art, at the end of the day are only because of the people I have trained with. Hence I think aikido people are open minded and thoughtful (like the guys at my dojo). But it would seem other aiki clubs have knuckleheads too, just like that tae kwon do club I once dedicated months to. Oh, oops hang on that's hardly fair

I'm obviously just lucky.
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Old 01-27-2005, 06:54 AM   #42
Adam Alexander
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Re: Don’t waste your time practicing AIKIDO

If Aikido doesn't have attacks, what the hell have I been doing as Uke?

That's something that really annoys me. People say that Aikido doesn't have attacks. However, we practice them all the time as Uke. Even as Sh'te/Nage we have attacks--I know atleast a half-dozen strikes from performing techniques.

Thing is, we're smart enough to recognize that attacking makes you susceptible to counter-attack and thus, weaker.
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Old 01-27-2005, 10:21 AM   #43
CNYMike
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Re: Don't waste your time practicing AIKIDO

Quote:
Jean de Rochefort wrote:
If Aikido doesn't have attacks, what the hell have I been doing as Uke?

That's something that really annoys me. People say that Aikido doesn't have attacks. However, we practice them all the time as Uke. Even as Sh'te/Nage we have attacks--I know atleast a half-dozen strikes from performing techniques.

Thing is, we're smart enough to recognize that attacking makes you susceptible to counter-attack and thus, weaker.
Not only that, but I've seen my share of joint locks and throws in Filipino Kali, some not too different from what we do in Aikido, and they are never characterized as "defensive." A Jun Fan/JKD person might categorize the controls and pins as an "immobilization attack," one of the five major ways to attack somebody, esepcially if nage, not uke, initiates the action.

So the idea that Aikido is defensive because you don't pound on your partner hasn't quite sat well with me lately.
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Old 01-27-2005, 10:23 AM   #44
CNYMike
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Re: Don't waste your time practicing AIKIDO

Quote:
Michael Gallagher wrote:
Western boxing focuses only on the hands. It's all punching, no kicks, locks or throws. Aikido is not alone in specializing. What do the TKD guys do? The JKD people are the only ones with bragging rights here. Barely. Next.
Of course, I was referring to the JKD people who might be arguing with the original poster, no one else.
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Old 01-27-2005, 08:35 PM   #45
Adam Alexander
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Re: Don't waste your time practicing AIKIDO

Quote:
Khaled Abdullah wrote:
"Aikido doesn't require fitness so most aikido players are old, fat and not strong enough"

It's the same as any other martial art. If you're fat and out of shape, you'll be slow and your ability to apply "techniques" will be hindered.

I picked up a book by the Ueshibas the other day. They said in that book that your Aikido is contingent on speed. Seeings that we all accept that a 200 lbs fat person will move slower than a 100 lbs slender person, seems to me that that's evidence that to be good at Aikido (in the physically effective way) thinner is better.

Like someone else said: don't confuse the art with the artist. Aikido's not a fat persons art (IMO), it's just an art that some fat people practice.


Ask your buddys if there's any old people in their art. If so, why are they talking about Aikidoka's ages. If not, shouldn't they be concerned that they're practicing an art that they will not be able to practice for good?...unlike you who can practice Aikido for the rest of your life.


As far as strength goes: as an Aikidoka, I'd rather work smart, not hard. Ask those numbskulls if they want to push a car on flat tires if it's not necessary...point: strength isn't necessary when you make the smart decision...Aikido.
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Old 01-27-2005, 09:09 PM   #46
syraikidoka
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Re: Don’t waste your time practicing AIKIDO

To any doubters of the effectiveness of Aikido -

I have been studying Aikido for a year, but in a street confrontation it still would not be my first choice or instinct. I would (and have) revert quickly to what I learned from the martial arts I practiced in the past (BJJ, Muay Thai, Kali). However it is certainly not for lack of effectiveness of my current training style. Many (most) other martial arts were invented for a specific reason. It was either for sport, to face a military or other oppressive onslaught, or for general self defense. Each needed to make the practitioner into an effective fighter as soon as possible to achieve the desired end. Aikido will achieve the same ends but with more compassion and grace than most. The difference is that it is not immediately available to the student. Only after years of study, philosophy, breathing and stretching are we able to time a response to an attack such that the attacker will be quickly dispatched or controlled at our choosing.

The bottom line is this: Anyone can learn to throw a decent punch or kick in an afternoon and then continue to learn more and refine him/herself for years, but what do you think will happen if that person attacked your sensei?
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Old 01-28-2005, 02:22 AM   #47
Charles Hill
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Re: Don't waste your time practicing AIKIDO

Quote:
Jean de Rochefort wrote:
I picked up a book by the Ueshibas the other day. They said in that book that your Aikido is contingent on speed.
Jean,

What book is that? That doesn`t sound like something they would write.

Charles
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Old 01-28-2005, 02:36 AM   #48
xuzen
 
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Re: Don't waste your time practicing AIKIDO

Quote:
Michael Rann wrote:
....<snip>... but what do you think will happen if that person attacked your sensei?
He/she will need an appointment with either a doctor or a dentist or both very soon.


Boon

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Old 01-28-2005, 04:17 AM   #49
bogglefreak20
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Re: Don't waste your time practicing AIKIDO

First of all let me say that this is a matter of one's own point of view. I believe it all comes down to how you see Aikido and why you train in it. I myself train in Ki Aikido which seems to have a lot of philosophy attached to it (though my sensei strongly arfues that Ki Aikido is NOT a philosophy since philosophies are theoretical and Ki Aikido is above all practical).

In our dojo we do not train in order to be able to fight on the street, we do not train for self-defense (which does not mean we're not able to defend ourselves, but rather that self-defense is not our primary goal).

About fitness in Aikido I would like to say that after 2 years of training I am definitely more fit, my muscles more toned and my stamina improved. All that practically without the strains and fatigue I used to get after training in any other sport. It is true that in a fitness studio I could probably get results like this in a month or two, but then again I'm not training Aikido to develop muscles.

In adition to that, I do not believe Ki Aikido focuses on developing muscle strenght, but rather developing Ki.

Quote:
Khaled Abdullah wrote:
"Aikido doesn't require fitness so most aikido players are old, fat and not strong enough"
I wonder what is "strong enough"... I suspect your friends ment physical strenght. However, if someone attacks you who is also stronger than you, then you will probably lose the fight. Depending solely on physical strenght is exactly what we are trying to un-learn in Ki Aikido.

Quote:
Khaled Abdullah wrote:
" you can not attack in aikido you just receiving and waiting what the attackers will do"
I never wanted to attack anyone, I don't want to attack anyone and I suspect I won't want to attack anyone in the future. That is exactly why I stick to Ki Aikido.

Quote:
Khaled Abdullah wrote:
" many aikido techniques depend on grabbing which is rarely happen in real fights"
" aikido focuses on hands to applying its techniques and ignores the rest of the body, no kicks no punches no jumping"
" aikido is too traditional, no body use sword in our world today"
Again, IMHO training in Ki Aikido is not ment as a path towards gaining the ability to knock people down on the street. I never think about real-life situations and how Aikido would help me if I found myself being mugged for instance. Muggers today usually come equipped with guns and other kinds of firearms. If I ever find myself in a situation of being on the wrong side of a gunbarrel held by a mugger, you may rest asured, I will not attempt any Aikido moves whatsoever except those within me with which I will try to remain calm and focused.

On a more funny side I could comment that I'm glad there are no jumps, kicks etc. in Aikido. The use of arms themselves give enough for me to think about not to mention moving around and maitaining the centre.

The tradition in Aikido is something I like very much. I do not train with swords yet (in our dojo that happens after 6 or 7 years of training) but I'm looking forward to that. I'm sure there are plenty of pro arguments for use of swords just like for any other thing in Aikido.

I hope I've managed to explain my view and let me make an emphasis on the words "my view." It's just that.

Lots of joy in training and peace of mind to all of you.

Beatus Qui Venit In Nomine Domini!
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Old 01-28-2005, 06:50 AM   #50
Adam Alexander
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Re: Don't waste your time practicing AIKIDO

Quote:
Charles Hill wrote:
Jean,

What book is that? That doesn`t sound like something they would write.

Charles

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