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Old 01-18-2005, 02:25 AM   #1
phil-aiki
Dojo: aikikai club of the philippines
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Question Fake or New style aikido

hi everyone,
i just wanna asks you guys here.I went to back to my country for a long six mos. vacation in a province. So when i got there i saw this big "combat aikido" sign in a gym, i went in and enrolled myself(foolishly) without looking for their credentials and stuff like every dojo has to show.That night i practiced with them and noticed this:
A) All the students just plainly walks on and off the mat whenever they feel like it without dojo etiquette.
B) They all practice punching and kicking the whole time( like a karate club)but never does anything what aikido was known for stuff like ikkyo, nikyo koshi nage etc.
C) All the students including their shodans doesn't know how to roll,back roll. They dint even know what ikkyo or nikyo is. i showed them how and they were all like" hey,that's new and simple"
D) The sensei told me it's called "round roving" not "randori".
E) I asked why nobody is wearing a hakama he plainly answered it's ridiculous and for sissy only.
F) He charges 500pesos per month for 3 techniques. Goes to the gym 30 minutes late leaves 30 mins. earlier.

What do you guys think???.
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Old 01-18-2005, 02:33 AM   #2
Joe Bowen
 
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Re: Fake or New style aikido

Sounds like Crap to me.
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Old 01-18-2005, 02:37 AM   #3
phil-aiki
Dojo: aikikai club of the philippines
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Re: Fake or New style aikido

should i tell the students what he's doing?
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Old 01-18-2005, 02:42 AM   #4
Jason Haines
Dojo: San Diego Jiai Aikido
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Re: Fake or New style aikido

Defintely not Aikido. Didn't sound much of anything else...formal, martial, or practical. Shame they use "aikido" to attract attention.
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Old 01-18-2005, 03:38 AM   #5
xuzen
 
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Re: Fake or New style aikido

Interesting... Counterfeit aikido. Imitation is the best compliment.

Just some casual comment....

I wonder why the charlatan choses the name Combat Aikido and not Kombat Kali or Kombat Escrima? Or maybe Kombat Krav Magna (now that will be rethoric).

Is aikido so fearsome and effective that these charlatans are piggybacking on its name?

Hey Phil, just a thought... how abt asking some of the senior members to do some "round roving" with you and you do your normal randori practice, I bet they will learn a little or two abt "real aikido"?

Just a casual comment.

Boon.

SHOMEN-ATE (TM), the solution to 90% of aikido and life's problems.
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Old 01-18-2005, 03:51 AM   #6
Jason Haines
Dojo: San Diego Jiai Aikido
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Re: Fake or New style aikido

Well, if Phil takes randori with real aikido, then this ,qoute, "sensei", unqoute, would lose his flock to our young Aikidoka. Perhaps a subtle suggestion to drop "aikido" from the instructors advertisement might be more proper and humble. Else a couple good shihonages, kotegaeshis and nikkyu or yankyu pins might smarten up this fight club...just be humble and peaceful and open an alternative to them... harmony is key, even when we are wrong or off balance, as I often am (ha ha)
Bueno Suerte!!!
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Old 01-18-2005, 03:54 AM   #7
PeterR
 
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Re: Fake or New style aikido

Quote:
Phil Laduc wrote:
C) All the students including their shodans doesn't know how to roll,back roll.
Neither can I.
Quote:
E) I asked why nobody is wearing a hakama he plainly answered it's ridiculous and for sissy only.
Sounds like a Shodothug
Quote:
What do you guys think???.
I guess that makes me dodgy.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 01-18-2005, 06:19 AM   #8
batemanb
 
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Re: Fake or New style aikido

There's a thread about combat Aikido in the Phillipines somewhere else, either here, on AJ or E-budo. It was a while back though, you may try searching for more info.

rgds

Bryan

A difficult problem is easily solved by asking yourself the question, "Just how would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
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Old 01-18-2005, 06:44 AM   #9
batemanb
 
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Re: Fake or New style aikido

Here you go

http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showth...kido#post67389

rgds

A difficult problem is easily solved by asking yourself the question, "Just how would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
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Old 01-18-2005, 09:30 AM   #10
Bronson
 
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Re: Fake or New style aikido

Quote:
Peter Rehse wrote:
I guess that makes me dodgy.
That and soooo many other things

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
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Old 01-18-2005, 09:49 AM   #11
SeiserL
 
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Re: Fake or New style aikido

IMHO, bow respectfully as you step off the mat and out the door.

OTOH, if you enjoyed the corss-training, learned what you can.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 01-18-2005, 06:56 PM   #12
stuartjvnorton
 
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Re: Fake or New style aikido

My guess is there's no genuine Aikido in the area, so there's less chance he'll be shown up as the fraud he is.
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Old 01-18-2005, 08:31 PM   #13
raul rodrigo
Location: Quezon City
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Re: Fake or New style aikido

Quote:
Stuart Norton wrote:
My guess is there's no genuine Aikido in the area, so there's less chance he'll be shown up as the fraud he is.
Stuart, the area in question is Manila, where I practice. There are quite a few good aikikai dojos here, and yes, among us, the consensus among us is combat aikido/tapondo is a fraud. Several of the best combat aikido blackbelts saw it for what it was and left for the aikikai dojos where they started back at the beginning and went all the way back to a "real" blackbelt. One guy who was teaching combat aikido at a dojo in a suburb left it for our dojo, where he is now starting over as a white belt. Phil just didnt do enough research.

I think what he heard as "round roving" is actually "round robin." Given some Filipino accents, its understandable.
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Old 01-18-2005, 09:03 PM   #14
xuzen
 
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Re: Fake or New style aikido

Disclaimer: The below is purely fictional. Any resemblance to person or events are entirely and purely coincidental.

Hi everyone,
I saw this big "combat karate" sign in a gym, i went in and enrolled myself (foolishly) without looking for their credentials and stuff like every dojo has to show.That night i practiced with them and noticed this:

A) All the students just sits in funny meditating position and perform some cultish bowing as though there are no proper dojo etiquette.
B) They all practice wrist grabbing and funny strike called atemi the whole time (like a judo club) but never does anything what karate was known for stuff like chuko zuki, gyaku zuki etc.
C) All the students including their shodans doesn't know how to block or punch. They didn't even know what ippon ken or tetsui is. I showed them how and they were all like " hey, that's new and simple"
D) The sensei told me it's called "come-hit-me" not "kumite".
E) I asked why nobody is wearing a karategi he plainly answered it's ridiculous and for sissy only. They were all in some funny black skirt.
F) He charges USD 500 per month for 3 techniques. He comes to class exaclty on time and often go to overtime explaining all the ridiculous cultish ideas.

What do you guys think???

SHOMEN-ATE (TM), the solution to 90% of aikido and life's problems.
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Old 01-18-2005, 09:19 PM   #15
Qatana
 
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Re: Fake or New style aikido

We bowed in my karate dojo. And sat in seiza for five minutes.

Q
http://www.aikidopetaluma.com/
www.knot-working.com

"It is not wise to be incautious when confronting a little smiling bald man"'- Rule #1
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Old 01-18-2005, 10:42 PM   #16
aikidoc
Dojo: Aikido of Midland
Location: Midland Texas
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Re: Fake or New style aikido

I agree with Lynn. Sounds more like a karate dojo posing as an aikido dojo. I'd just go find a real aikido dojo-sounds like there are some in the area.
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Old 01-19-2005, 12:50 AM   #17
phil-aiki
Dojo: aikikai club of the philippines
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Re: Fake or New style aikido

Now that we all agree that's it not aikido. How will i tell the students about it without offending them. Coz i just found out that there's an aikikai dojo in thier are but its too small..
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Old 01-19-2005, 01:02 AM   #18
PeterR
 
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Re: Fake or New style aikido

Quit that dojo and join the other. It's enough that people see you and maybe follow your example.

For those that don't it's really not your business.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 01-19-2005, 01:47 AM   #19
phil-aiki
Dojo: aikikai club of the philippines
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Re: Fake or New style aikido

Ok,i'll do that,sir. Domo!!!!
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Old 01-19-2005, 08:46 AM   #20
rob_liberti
Dojo: Shobu Aikido of Connecticut
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Re: Fake or New style aikido

It is your business! Phil advertised his class as "aikido" and took your money. That makes you an aikido SEMPAI to your aikido KOHAI in that class. They are your responsbility period.

If you don't feel that way, then he should refund what you paid, and he should change the name to avoid such mistakes in the future. You should ask him to to that. Furthermore, you should AT LEAST tell the students that you have befriended that what they are doing might be fine ninjitsu or something but it is not aikido.

Rob
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Old 01-19-2005, 09:36 AM   #21
asiawide
Location: Seoul
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Re: Fake or New style aikido

I saw some tapondo(Combat Aikido??) teaching on TV. It's more like jujitsu.
What I wonder is that the founder seems he learned something judging from its
web page. However, what he and other students wore makes me doubt. Mostly
I don't give any credit when one aikidoka wear colored gi.(like red or blue??)

Royce Reyes sensei at Makati YMCA Intl,
Crispin sensei at Quezon at Heart Center,
Macapawa sensei at Davao,
Rey sensei at Quezon at ABS-CBN compound.

They are quite and very nice.
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Old 01-19-2005, 12:36 PM   #22
Dominic Toupin
Location: Quebec City
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Re: Fake or New style aikido

Quote:
Jaemin Yu wrote:
However, what he and other students wore makes me doubt. Mostly
I don't give any credit when one aikidoka wear colored gi.(like red or blue??).
In Yoseikan Budo aikido, the followers of Hiroo Mochizuki wear blue and white gi. I think that the color of the gi has nothing to do with credit
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Old 01-19-2005, 04:33 PM   #23
Larry Feldman
Dojo: Atlanta School of Aikido
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Re: Fake or New style aikido

I think it is a good reason to watch a class before signing up.

An even better reason to watch before paying...
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Old 01-19-2005, 07:12 PM   #24
PeterR
 
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Re: Fake or New style aikido

Quote:
Rob Liberti wrote:
It is your business! Phil advertised his class as "aikido" and took your money. That makes you an aikido SEMPAI to your aikido KOHAI in that class. They are your responsbility period.
Bullocks.

By that argument an Aikikai guy with a couple years experience could walk into my dojo and start bad mouthing me and my style all in the name of responsibilty to his Kohei. He would be bounced out of there pretty hard and frankly it is very irresponsible advice to give some one. I can say you clearly have no idea what sempai/kohei actually means <-definately a flame.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 01-19-2005, 07:33 PM   #25
rob_liberti
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Re: Fake or New style aikido

Well Peter, let me see if I can put out that flame...

There is a _context_ to my line of reasoning. (It's not like I posted that in a mothering forum.) I've worked out with folks from the Tomiki system and they all seemed to know nikyo fairly well. If any aikido person with a few years of experience walks into your dojo and all you do there after several classes is punching and kicking - and no one has _ever_ seen ikkyo or nikyo then they should inform the students you're not teaching aikido either. Agreed?

I feel it is irresponsible to just walk away (*in that situation*).

Rob

Last edited by rob_liberti : 01-19-2005 at 07:37 PM.
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