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Old 01-11-2005, 10:01 AM   #26
akiy
 
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Re: Klingon Martial Art

Quote:
Ian Hurst wrote:
Peter, the development of using a walking stick etc. for combat makes sense as it's just adapting commonly used implements to maximise their effective use as a make-shift weapon.
Case in point -- the Japanese character for "tsue" which means "walking stick" is the same as that for "jo" (as in the wooden staff we often use in aikido training).

As for the Star Trek thing, I can't say I've watched enough of any of the shows to make a comment. I've met some folks who worked on the "Next Generation" show, though, as a friend of mine worked on it, too...

-- Jun

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Old 01-11-2005, 10:02 AM   #27
John Boswell
 
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Re: Klingon Martial Art

YES!! THIS IS TRUE!! Klingon martial arts for for REAL!

Peace out, y'all! I'm gonna go train in a TRUE Budo!!

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...61607?v=glance

Quote:
Secret Fighting Arts of the Warrior Race: Betleh Yigel
by Hetaq Dogwi (Illustrator), Hetaq Doqwl' (Illustrator)


1 used & new from $190.06

Edition: Paperback
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Editorial Reviews

Valley Press, January 15, 1997
If his book was not filled with Klingon cultural messages and photographs showing alien warriors wielding the multi-bladed curved betleH, it could pass as a traditional martial arts manual. Ample illustrations accompany detailed descriptions of each move as the book advances from stances to warm-up exercises to a full training set, a sequence of moves titled SIS 'Iw or Rain of Blood.

Product Description:
The first book of its kind! Klingon(R) Martial Arts instruction. You will find inspiring proverbs rendered in the Klingon language, detailed betleH instruction including 255 photos, empty hand techniques to disarm a warrior with a betleH, warrior humor, and more! "Klingon" is a Registered Trademark of Paramount Pictures.

See all Editorial Reviews

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Product Details

Paperback
Publisher: Pacific Warriors Inc (April 1, 1997)
ISBN: 1890065005
Product Dimensions: 0.5 x 6.2 x 9.0 inches
Shipping Weight: 10.4 ounces.

Average Customer Review: based on 1 review. (Write a review)
Amazon.com Sales Rank in Books: #139,544
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Write an online review and share your thoughts with other customers.

15 of 15 people found the following review helpful:

Fight like a Klingon warrior!, December 20, 2001
Reviewer: Chapulina R (Tovarischi Imports, USA/RUS) - See all my reviews

This volume was intended to be the first in a series by a Kung Fu Master on fighting technique with Klingon weapons. Step-by-step instruction begins with correct stance, warm-up, and forms. Then take your 'uSDu' (fighting stance) and raise your betleH! The Master and his female co-instructor demonstrate through sequences of black-and-white photos, real offensive and defensive technique with the sickle-like blade. You'll learn to use your betleH against an opponent armed with naQ (staff) or ghIntaH (naginata), and how to fight empty-handed against a betleH-wielding adversary. By the end of your instruction, you will also be able to perform a moqbara (kata) with your weapon. The book is written in Fed-Standard (English), and contains captions and proverbs in tlhIngan-Hol, the authentic klingo-lingo. The instruction photos of the are professional quality and the Klingon costumes are quite convincing! Helpful line-diagrams show foot-positions and direction of movement. The great thing about this book is, if you have trained in Kung Fu you can actually do these exercizes. "Secret Fighting Arts of the Warrior Race" is presented seriously, even though it is intended for fandom fantasy. You won't have to search for a betleH forged in the Klingon Empire -- you can order one from the publisher of this book.

...just kidding Sensei! I'll see you tonight in class.

Last edited by John Boswell : 01-11-2005 at 10:05 AM.

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Old 01-11-2005, 10:10 AM   #28
John Boswell
 
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Re: Klingon Martial Art

By the way, the Star Trek "Soke" can be found here:

http://www.startrek.com/startrek/vie...ve/105691.html

His name is Dan Curry and is the creator of Mok'bara, the name of the "martial art" of the Klingons. He also designed and created their weapons. Dunno what he knows about true martial arts, but he's been nominated 12 times for Emmy's and has won 7 of those 12.

/shrug

Just a little F.Y.I.

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Old 01-11-2005, 10:39 AM   #29
Qatana
 
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Re: Klingon Martial Art

Ian, whats the difference between spending your life studying the use of an out-moded, out-of-date, never used in modern combat for anything but ceremonial costumery; and spending a lifetime studying the use of an imaginary yet fully functionaly weapon that has been in the public eye for over 20 years?

Really, why do we train with swords? Spacing and distance? To fully understand the application of aiki principles? Well, maybe thats why we-as-aikidoka study One particular type of swordplay. But the majority of people who study sword arts-historic, fantastic and international, do it because they like playing with swords.

And according to the stage combat specialist in my dojo
a) Stage combat IS a martial art
b) any art form developed for and with the use of an intentionally lethal weapon (as opposed to the absolutely legitimate chair-and-coat-hanger-fu) IS a martial art. Maybe not a traditional one.

My friend the Vietnam Vet sniper-and-combat-specialist agrees.

this is their not-so-humble-opinion, i'm just the messenger.

I nevr had a problem with the word "Trekkie". I guess they felt it was a diminutive and therefore offensive. PC bull...

Q
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"It is not wise to be incautious when confronting a little smiling bald man"'- Rule #1
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Old 01-11-2005, 11:03 AM   #30
Jerry Miller
 
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Re: Klingon Martial Art

I remember running across a copy of the Klingon bible once. Why bother with this stuff? Why not is just as reasonable of a question.

Jerry Miller
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Old 01-11-2005, 11:04 AM   #31
henry brown
 
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Re: Klingon Martial Art

Dune is copyright 1965, and by that time It was clear that the Saudis were sitting on top of huge reserves. So, it was clearly relevant by the early 70's (remember OPEC...gas crises of 1973....). It's sad that 40 years later we haven't done anything to supplant oils as a cheap energy source
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Old 01-11-2005, 11:35 AM   #32
happysod
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Re: Klingon Martial Art

Quote:
And according to the stage combat specialist in my dojo
a) Stage combat IS a martial art
b) any art form developed for and with the use of an intentionally lethal weapon (as opposed to the absolutely legitimate chair-and-coat-hanger-fu) IS a martial art. Maybe not a traditional one
a) totally disagree, stage combat is a martial performance which uses base martial arts in order to provide a spectacular show - it's aim is not martial although it's moves may be based on them

b) the various weapons that history has provided have all been "field tested" to the extent that they either work or were discarded as user unfriendly. The use of improvised/makeshift weapons and training in such is not only part of many martial arts, but in my opinion a good use of resources.

However, we're not discussing a makeshift weapon or using whatever is lying around, we're talking about deliberately carrying around a fake battle weapon, created by script-writers as it looks cool, then creating a system of defense based on it despite it's lack of either historical or current use in warfare - fully functioning? How is it fully functioning? Because it has an edge? How was it designed? How much experience did the designers have in weapons combat? What field tests has it actually been in and to what level of realism?

To me, this is all akin to deciding that alien x only has one leg, but they have a really cool hand-to-hand and then starting every training session by tying one leg up and proceeding from there.

Klingon ma as a bit of fun, fine, no problems. As anything other than a cosplay fantasy, no and as being comparable to most of the existing martial arts I really say NO!
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Old 01-11-2005, 11:38 AM   #33
garry cantrell
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Re: Klingon Martial Art

o.k. - i lose the "where's waldo" match. which link shows the klingon weapons? are we sure they're klingon weapons? here's why i ask -- back in the 70's a friend of mine came back from china with some very peculiar looking weapons, same being Deer Antler Knives and a Heaven and Earth Blade - i thought at the time they had a vaguely sci-fi look about them. i'm not up on chinese martial arts but apparently they are considered traditional weapons. could the weapon in question be something like that?
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Old 01-11-2005, 11:52 AM   #34
Qatana
 
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Re: Klingon Martial Art

Deliberately carry around a fake battle weapon? Like people are walking around deliberately carrying around obsolete battle weapons? Only to weapons class, they are.

Dude you sound EXACTLY like the people who put aikido down for being a glorified dance form with falling down.

Q
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Old 01-11-2005, 01:52 PM   #35
wendyrowe
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Re: Klingon Martial Art

I've already made it clear that I love cross-training, so it should be no surprise that I don't seen anything wrong with people interested in training seriously with a made-up weapon. Everything has to start somewhere; thing is, the only way to know whether a weapon system really works is for said system to be tested in real life scenarios over decades. But whatever they train with, if people work hard with good teachers I'm sure they'll get something out of it that just might help them in their other arts/pursuits.

Quote:
Jo Adell wrote:
I nevr had a problem with the word "Trekkie". I guess they felt it was a diminutive and therefore offensive. PC bull...
Historical note: back in my days as an active member of MITSFS (MIT Science Fiction Society) in the early 80's, a "Trekkie" was someone fanatical about Star Trek while a "Trekker" was someone very interested in it but in a self-proclaimed non-fanatical way. Trekkies proclaimed themselves Trekkies and could quote entire shows, Klingon lineage, Enterprise specs etc; Trekkers enjoyed spirited discussions about Star Trek science/tech/culture/humor and knew lines from shows and various arcane details but didn't go around telling people they were Trekkies or Trekkers -- sort of like a "closet Trekkie." Trekkies were proud to be called Trekkies; Trekkers didn't want to be labelled anything; but since just about everyone I knew was one, there wasn't much need for another label.
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Old 01-11-2005, 02:37 PM   #36
p00kiethebear
 
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Re: Klingon Martial Art

Quote:
Wow!

Look very closely at the picture with the sword. Look on the wall behind him. There's a pair of Klingon Batleths hanging there.
NERD ALERT!

"Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity"
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Old 01-11-2005, 02:46 PM   #37
Thomas Ambrose
 
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Re: Klingon Martial Art

Oooooh... Star Trek!!! Here is my take...

Easiest first: Trekker vs Trekkie; Wendy has it totally right on the historical note. I would add that today however, it is a PC term. If anyone asks me which one I am.... Trekkie, all the way

Factual: Dan Curry does have some years of martial arts experience, though I have not been able to find specifically which ones. The Bat'leth, or in Klingon "Sword of Honor" was designed to be unique and unfamiliar. He says that he has thought of the design for a long time, but never had an excuse to make one until Star Trek. Supposedly, the Korean Martial Arts Society has given their blessing on its existance, the US Navy wanted tracings of it, and the FBI has interviewed him about how he came up with the ergonomic factors. Here is my source:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/st/intervi...ry/page3.shtml
This doesn't prove anything, but at least gives some illumination to Curry's background, and some attention the bat'leth has received. I read another article about this recently, but I cannot remember the link.

Practical: Many fantasy swords or wizard swords or whatever might be very impractical at being weapons, but look cool on screen.

Sad but true: I do not own a Bat'leth, but due to my love for Star Trek, I always thought it would be a great wall hanger, maybe someday when I have a little bit of expendible money. For now, I do have (hangs head in shame) a d'k tahg which I think was officially liscensed to United Cutlery. For those of you unfamiliar with Trek-lore, a d'k tahg is a Klingon "side arm." Basically it's a 4 inch- dagger with two side guards that pop out with a button pressing. Not as impressive, but still a token of my geek-dom Disclaimer My d'k tahg is for collectors-display purposes only. The same goes for any bat'leth that I ever may purchase. I would NEVER try to train or fight with such a thing. If I saw one being used in a dojo, I would very frightened, and leave.
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Old 01-11-2005, 02:58 PM   #38
Bronson
 
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Re: Klingon Martial Art

I was studying tai chi at the time Star Trek: The Next Generation was airing. In at least one episode it showed Worf going through his unarmed form. Guess what? It was tai chi. It was teeveeized and Klingonized but all the moves he was doing were recognizable to me and the other tai chi students who saw it. I've also noticed the similarity of the Klingon weapons to some of the chinese weapons...particularly the deer/elk horn knives.

During my stint in the SCA somebody had made and practiced with a Klingon Batleth that met all the saftety requirments and was allowed to use it in practice. His solo stuff was pretty interesting...too bad he got trounced whenever he faced an opponent with a more traditional style weapon. He tried it for a few sessions then dropped it by the wayside. We all gave it a spin and while it was fun to goof around with it was a slow weapon and didn't have much in the way of effective reach.

I've been told that a Trekkie is someone who follows the original Star Trek and a Trekker is someone who follows the Next Generation.

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
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Old 01-11-2005, 03:11 PM   #39
Qatana
 
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Re: Klingon Martial Art

He never got to try batleth -to-batleth? Too bad.

yeah, Klingon tai chi is most definitly tai chi.

Q
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Old 01-11-2005, 03:34 PM   #40
dan guthrie
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Re: Klingon Martial Art

Quote:
John Boswell wrote:
By the way, the Star Trek "Soke" can be found here:

http://www.startrek.com/startrek/vie...ve/105691.html

His name is Dan Curry and is the creator of Mok'bara, the name of the "martial art" of the Klingons. He also designed and created their weapons. Dunno what he knows about true martial arts, but he's been nominated 12 times for Emmy's and has won 7 of those 12.

/shrug

Just a little F.Y.I.
Am I too old to start Mok'bara? Will it work on the street?
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Old 01-11-2005, 03:51 PM   #41
Bronson
 
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Re: Klingon Martial Art

Quote:
Dan Guthrie wrote:
Will it work on the street?
Only on the streets of Qo'noS

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
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Old 01-11-2005, 04:26 PM   #42
Qatana
 
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Re: Klingon Martial Art

Or in the holodeck...

Q
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Old 01-11-2005, 05:12 PM   #43
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Re: Klingon Martial Art

With safety protocols on....

Ignatius
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Old 01-11-2005, 06:59 PM   #44
Chris Birke
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Re: Klingon Martial Art

Is there a spiritual belief that accompanies KMA practice?
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Old 01-11-2005, 07:45 PM   #45
garry cantrell
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Re: Klingon Martial Art

not a trekkie - but i did watch several episodes over the years and i seem to recall a training exercise program on one of the later incarnations - (maybe on TNG on a holodeck? ) entitled "Aikido I" - is that right? i think with the female blond security officer?? hmmmm. maybe, maybe not. anyone remember?
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Old 01-11-2005, 08:06 PM   #46
wendyrowe
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Re: Klingon Martial Art

Quote:
Garry Cantrell wrote:
not a trekkie - but i did watch several episodes over the years and i seem to recall a training exercise program on one of the later incarnations - (maybe on TNG on a holodeck? ) entitled "Aikido I" - is that right? i think with the female blond security officer?? hmmmm. maybe, maybe not. anyone remember?
I may not have a Trekkie's memory, but I've got the right tools:

Quote:
my quick web research wrote:
http://www.trekweb.com/tng/crew/yar.html

Tasha Yar, Chief of Security

...Well-trained in martial arts and athletics, her favorite pastimes were aikido and Parrises squares....
And continuing along, I found

Quote:
more web research wrote:

http://www.mars.dti.ne.jp/~ateban/trekjapan_e.html

To explain holodeck systems to Ligonians aboard Enterprise-D, Lieutenant Yar execute a program named "Aikido 1" (TNG No.4 "Code of Honor".) The program can make 3 enemies.
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Old 01-11-2005, 08:14 PM   #47
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Re: Klingon Martial Art

Quote:
Garry Cantrell wrote:
not a trekkie - but i did watch several episodes over the years and i seem to recall a training exercise program on one of the later incarnations - (maybe on TNG on a holodeck? ) entitled "Aikido I" - is that right? i think with the female blond security officer?? hmmmm. maybe, maybe not. anyone remember?
....sigh... I thought my dork years were behind me ... ok, here it goes...

Star Trek The Next Generation Episode 4 "Code of Honor" LT Natasha Yar uses a holodeck program called "Aikido I" to demonstrate the technology to a couple of visiting aliens. I looked up the episode number, but I do remember seeing it.

here is a photo from that episode...
courtesy of www.startrek.com

I will quietly go back to pretending once again... that I am not a nerd!

EDIT: Wendy, you just beat me to the post while I was still forming mine!
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Old 01-11-2005, 09:20 PM   #48
wendyrowe
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Re: Klingon Martial Art

Quote:
Thomas Ambrose wrote:
I will quietly go back to pretending once again... that I am not a nerd!
I won't even bother pretending; I'm a nerd and proud of it! All I need now is a NERD PRIDE T-shirt. Or, judging from this thread's popularity, maybe we need an AIKIDO NERD shirt. Move over, Shodothug, here we come!
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Old 01-11-2005, 10:04 PM   #49
Jerry Miller
 
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Cool Re: Klingon Martial Art

Aiki-nerd, how cool is that?

Jerry Miller
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Old 01-11-2005, 10:22 PM   #50
Qatana
 
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Re: Klingon Martial Art

All of us are aiki-nerds.

The thing about the "Code of Honor" episode is that while i've only seen it once since I started training, it didn't much look like aikido to me.

Q
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