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Old 12-27-2004, 12:35 PM   #1
jimbaker
Dojo: Aikido of Norfolk/ Aikido Society of Memphis
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Wearing the obi outside the hakema?

I've been noticing a lot more martial artists wearing their rank belt outside their hakamas. You can see the same thing occasionally on Japanese websites.

First, why?

Second: Do they wear another belt under the hakama to have something to tie it to, or do they just use staples?

Inquiring minds...

JIM, the wolves snuffle joyfully in the snow beneath my window in Norfolk
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Old 12-27-2004, 12:38 PM   #2
David Humm
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Re: Wearing the obi outside the hakema?

I dunno the actual reason why but I speculate they've been watching too much Superman and decided to reverse the order of their clothing.
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Old 12-27-2004, 02:39 PM   #3
spinecracker
 
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Re: Wearing the obi outside the hakema?

I know that the obi is worn outside of the hakama in Okinawan Kobudo/Kobujutsu, so perhaps there are legitimate reasons why this may happen.

So, my shortlist of reasons for wearing the obi outside of the hakama are:

1. Part of the tradition of the martial art you are training in, or tradition of family, etc.
2. You didn't read the instructions properly
3. You are a bozo who's trying to show off

Any additions you would like to make?
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Old 12-27-2004, 02:48 PM   #4
akiy
 
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Re: Wearing the obi outside the hakema?

Quote:
Jim Baker wrote:
I've been noticing a lot more martial artists wearing their rank belt outside their hakamas. You can see the same thing occasionally on Japanese websites.

First, why?
Not really an answer, but it may have to do with tradition of that particular art? I've seen Tetsuzan Kuroda sensei wearing an obi outside of his hakama, for instance. I don't know if he was wearing another inside his hakama, though.
Quote:
Second: Do they wear another belt under the hakama to have something to tie it to, or do they just use staples?
These days, I think they use surgically implanted velcro.

Actually, I've gone without wearing a belt under a hakama before. It's not that different, really.

-- Jun

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Old 12-27-2004, 06:00 PM   #5
Don_Modesto
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Re: Wearing the obi outside the hakema?

Quote:
Robert Fox wrote:
I know that the obi is worn outside of the hakama in Okinawan Kobudo/Kobujutsu, so perhaps there are legitimate reasons why this may happen.
Hakko-ryu, too.

Po-ta-to, po-tah-to.

Don J. Modesto
St. Petersburg, Florida
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Old 12-29-2004, 10:36 AM   #6
Jorge Garcia
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Re: Wearing the obi outside the hakama?

I recently did an Aikido demo at a jujitsu dojo. All the black belts wore the obi outside their hakamas. After class, when they saw me take off my hakama, they all asked me to show them how I tied it. It was time to go so I wasn't able to do that but it made me wonder how they tied theirs. It was almost as if they wore the belt over the hakama because they didn't know how to tie it. I also noted they didn't know how to fold their hakamas either.
Best,

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Old 12-30-2004, 01:52 AM   #7
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Re: Wearing the obi outside the hakema?

I support Jorge`s supposition here. Way back when I was first told to wear a hakama, I was shown how to wear it with the obi on the outside. It was because this was how the person showing me had been shown.

After I started travelling to Japan, I was taught how to wear it differently (I`m not saying correctly because I don`t know for sure ), with the obi put on before the hakama, hence it is worn under. I prefer my current way as the hakama stays in place much better. I was also taught to fold it correctly too, certainly beneficial to maintaining good condition.

rgds

Bryan

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Old 12-30-2004, 02:47 AM   #8
rachel
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Re: Wearing the obi outside the hakema?

I can't remember personally ever seeing anyone wear their obi outside of their hakama, but maybe I'm just not as observant as I've always thought...

First, I would think that the purpose of this would be to make it easier to distinguish rank. In my dojo, so people wear hakama before reaching black belt level. The way I tie my hakama, my belt can barely be seen, so when I wore a white belt, people assumed me to be a higher rank than I was.

Second, in my Kendo class, we don't wear obi, only hakama. The hakama stays up on it's own, as long as you tie it tight enough. I've noticed thought that when not wearing an obi, people seem to wear the hakama slightly higher, perhaps to keep it from being too long, since there is no belt to wrap it around. I dunno...
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Old 12-30-2004, 03:30 AM   #9
Chuck.Gordon
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Re: Wearing the obi outside the hakema?

I've seen Takenouchi Ryu folks who sometimes wear an obi outside their hakama ...

cg

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Old 12-30-2004, 08:21 AM   #10
kironin
 
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Re: Wearing the obi outside the hakema?

Quote:
Rachel Klein wrote:
Second, in my Kendo class, we don't wear obi, only hakama. The hakama stays up on it's own, as long as you tie it tight enough. I've noticed thought that when not wearing an obi, people seem to wear the hakama slightly higher, perhaps to keep it from being too long, since there is no belt to wrap it around. I dunno...
Like in Iaido, you can wear an obi in Kendo, but it's usually the wider obi that you do not wrap the hakama around. The belt doesn't really do much to hold up the hakama. I could see just doing away with it in Kendo practice since there is no saya. In Iaido, the hakama is tied to help keep the belt in place to hold the saya while allowing freedom of movement for the draw. I could see where you could have the wide belt on the outside if it was tied securely in the back and hold the saya also though I have never seen anyone in koryu do that.

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Old 12-30-2004, 11:41 AM   #11
rachel
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Re: Wearing the obi outside the hakema?

Good point.

In my kendo class they seem to have done away with other things too (besides the obi)... Like gi pants... I think it's odd, but maybe it's just me.

Last edited by rachel : 12-30-2004 at 11:45 AM.
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Old 12-30-2004, 11:48 AM   #12
Bronson
 
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Re: Wearing the obi outside the hakema?

No pants in my iaido class either (other than hakama). I think having gi pants under the hakama is something relatively new. I've been told it's more traditional to go pantless under the hakama. I don't know if that's true or not as I haven't really cared enough to do any research on it. I do know that once the hakama is on it's easier to go pee if you're sans-pants

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
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Old 12-30-2004, 01:06 PM   #13
Chris Li
 
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Re: Wearing the obi outside the hakema?

It's not uncommon in some arts - for example in this photo of Okuyama Ryuho from Hakko-ryu - http://aikidojournal.com/article.php?articleID=81

Best,

Chris

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Old 12-30-2004, 02:27 PM   #14
Bronson
 
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Re: Wearing the obi outside the hakema?

Quote:
Christopher Li wrote:
It's not uncommon in some arts - for example in this photo of Okuyama Ryuho from Hakko-ryu - http://aikidojournal.com/article.php?articleID=81
Any idea if this is standard practice in Hakko-ryu? If it is I wonder when/why it started? I notice further down there is a picture of the father and he appears to have his obi under the hakama.

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
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Old 12-30-2004, 02:38 PM   #15
Chris Li
 
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Re: Wearing the obi outside the hakema?

Quote:
Bronson Diffin wrote:
Any idea if this is standard practice in Hakko-ryu? If it is I wonder when/why it started? I notice further down there is a picture of the father and he appears to have his obi under the hakama.

Bronson
I don't know, but there's another picture at http://www.hakkoryu.com/display/dsp_...age=techniques

In any case, in general it's not all that common, but by no mean unknown, IMO.

Best,

Chris

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Old 12-30-2004, 04:57 PM   #16
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Re: Wearing the obi outside the hakema?

Quote:
Christopher Li wrote:
It's not uncommon in some arts - for example in this photo of Okuyama Ryuho from Hakko-ryu -
but if you go down the page, you see a photo of his father who is wearing his hakama over his belt.

could it be just modern sloppiness of a younger generation creeping in ?

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Old 12-30-2004, 05:04 PM   #17
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Re: Wearing the obi outside the hakema?

Quote:
Bronson Diffin wrote:
No pants in my iaido class either (other than hakama).
I wear at least shorts over my underwear. It feels just a little too breezy without pants and given my long torso the keikogi may not be long enough.

I just hold it.

but it's probably why, unlike in Aikido, we wait till we get to the dressing room to take the hakama off. Bad form to do it on the mat.

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Old 01-06-2005, 05:30 AM   #18
Peter Seth
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Smile Re: Wearing the obi outside the hakema?

Hi All
Happy New Year!
Wouldn't an obi worn outside give an opponent something else to grab hold?
pete
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Old 01-06-2005, 05:37 AM   #19
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Re: Wearing the obi outside the hakema?

Quote:
Peter Seth wrote:
Hi All
Happy New Year!
Wouldn't an obi worn outside give an opponent something else to grab hold?
pete

obidori ?

A difficult problem is easily solved by asking yourself the question, "Just how would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
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Old 01-06-2005, 08:18 AM   #20
darin
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Re: Wearing the obi outside the hakema?

In my case it depends if I have gained a bit of body fat. If so it is difficult to tie the hakama over a belt. Maybe its about time I got a new hakama. Can we buy velcro hakamas?

I usually wear my iaido belt under my hakama. If I decide to wear my aikido belt I will wear it over my hakama.
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Old 01-07-2005, 06:04 AM   #21
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Re: Wearing the obi outside the hakema?

It is common practice in most jujitsu ryuha to wear the obi outside the hakama to indicate one's rank - but usually not the soke of the ryuha coz everybody's supposed to know who he is.

Ignatius
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Old 01-07-2005, 11:57 AM   #22
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Re: Wearing the obi outside the hakema?

Quote:
Bryan Bateman wrote:
obidori ?
aka Sumo!

yeehaw!

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Old 01-07-2005, 12:06 PM   #23
kironin
 
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Re: Wearing the obi outside the hakema?

Quote:
Ignatius Teo wrote:
It is common practice in most jujitsu ryuha to wear the obi outside the hakama to indicate one's rank - but usually not the soke of the ryuha coz everybody's supposed to know who he is.
When you wear it under the hakama, part of it is still visible, so I don't see much logic in this reason.

Maybe everyone knows who the soke is because he is the only one wearing his belt under his hakama !!

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