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Old 12-24-2004, 07:59 AM   #1
Bill Danosky
 
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Kenbudo vs. Kali vs. European edged arts

Which edged weapon arts do you like best? I notice a few people have multiple arts in their credentials and am wondering how one makes it all jive.

Not that I want to turn this into, "If a Kali guy met a Samurai and a renaissance Italian swordsman, etc." I know it basically goes to the skill level of the practitioner.

But in a hypothetical situation, which one(s) are actually the most effective? I happen to like the Kung Fu weapon forms, but that's just because I like them. I think a katana would be an awesome and very scary thing to face, but I don't know that a samurai couldn't be out-fenced.

My suspicion would be that the European would run the Japanese through and be immediately cleaved into pieces by the dying Samurai. But would a Kali practitioner do better?

Who knows? (I mean that literally, this time.)
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Old 12-24-2004, 05:45 PM   #2
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Re: Kenbudo vs. Kali vs. European edged arts

I'm completely ignorant so I have a firm conviction on what would happen.
From what I've seen of Iaido IF the samurai and Cyrano suddenly decided to kill each other the benefit would lean toward the samurai. He/she would probably slice into Cyrano as he/she unsheathed his/her katana and Cyrano was unsheathing his sword.
IF they both entered a large room with swords out Cyrano might hold the advantage the longer the duel goes on, pricking the samurai and then backing off. I've seen a sword expert on teevee say that the katana's weight would make the attack slower but Cyrano would only get one good lunge in before losing an extremity. His rapier wouldn't deflect a shomen uchi slice.
Anyone else? My brain is now officially empty on this subject.
BTW good subject, imo.
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Old 12-24-2004, 11:49 PM   #3
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Re: Kenbudo vs. Kali vs. European edged arts

I love Kali. I also learn both Japanese Sword and Spanish Rapier in my Kali class, along with the traditional Filipino weapons..so theres no room to complain here. (including unarmed)
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Old 12-25-2004, 12:13 PM   #4
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Re: Kenbudo vs. Kali vs. European edged arts

IMHO, it is not the edged weapon that matters but the person whose hand it is in.

But, I would put my bet on FMA. (I've done FMA for over 20 years so I am very bias about its weapons system).

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Old 12-25-2004, 02:04 PM   #5
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Re: Kenbudo vs. Kali vs. European edged arts

Yeah, all the folks at Cold Steel, inc. are FMA fanatics, too. I'd think they would know and they certainly have options available to them. "If memory serves me correctly", Filipino arts have a European influence from having been Spanish occupied and they had intermittent experience against katanas, too.

Here's a context issue I just thought of: It seems the different styles of edged combat are adapted to the kind of armor they were using. What do we assume our opponent is wearing? Are we going to say this is dojo combat? A modern or ancient battlefield? City street where people happen to be carrying their martial arts assault gear? Home defense trenchfighting?

Wanna make a no armor assumption?

Last edited by Bill Danosky : 12-25-2004 at 02:07 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 12-25-2004, 05:37 PM   #6
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Re: Kenbudo vs. Kali vs. European edged arts

I thought about this a long time ago and I think the only way it could be settled would be on something like the Holodeck in the Star Trek series. That way each person could train extensively with "live steel" against virtual experts without any actual harm.
Bill, I think you'd have to break it down to two kinds of use, civilian and military. The military option would have to assume absolute preparation, i.e. armor if you have it, horses, archers etc. On the civilian side a cloak or chunk of wood found in an alley could be improvised shields. As Thomas suggested hands-free might be wise if the encounter is in a tight space.
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Old 12-25-2004, 10:46 PM   #7
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Re: Kenbudo vs. Kali vs. European edged arts

does kali have good empty handed techniques? i found a guy who says he teaches kali, what other techniques does kali teach besides weapons?
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Old 12-26-2004, 12:14 AM   #8
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Re: Kenbudo vs. Kali vs. European edged arts

You start off with weapons first.

Kali's hand to hand combat includes (depending on the system), punching, kicking, trapping, locking, throws, elbows, knees, breaks, chokes and some include groundfighting (since 90% of fights end up on the ground). Kali also has extensive footwork
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Old 12-26-2004, 12:15 AM   #9
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Re: Kenbudo vs. Kali vs. European edged arts

Quote:
Lynn Seiser wrote:
IMHO, it is not the edged weapon that matters but the person whose hand it is in.

But, I would put my bet on FMA. (I've done FMA for over 20 years so I am very bias about its weapons system).
What style?

Quote:
Bill Danosky wrote:
Yeah, all the folks at Cold Steel, inc. are FMA fanatics, too. I'd think they would know and they certainly have options available to them. "If memory serves me correctly", Filipino arts have a European influence from having been Spanish occupied and they had intermittent experience against katanas, too.
I believe they were invaded by the Japanese at one point in time, and naturally borrowed the most effective techniques from their fighting systems and implemented it into Kali.

It's obvious they were invaded by the Spanish (after holding them off for 400 years), and of course took rapier techniques and put it into the (then) outlawed Kali. Thats where terminology like "Espada y Daga" (Sword and Dagger) come from. It's also where people get the stereotypical view that all Kali styles are stickfighting, Because weapons and their martial arts were outlawed, they had to hide their MA system as dances, using sticks in place of swords.

Last edited by thomas_dixon : 12-26-2004 at 12:23 AM.
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Old 12-26-2004, 07:09 AM   #10
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Re: Kenbudo vs. Kali vs. European edged arts

Quote:
Dan Guthrie wrote:
I think you'd have to break it down to two kinds of use, civilian and military.
Yes, that's a particularly interesting point to me since I figure to go my entire life and never be in the military. I can now distill my training into the civilian method, less any law enforcement tactics.

If I'm called upon to use my empty-handed skills, it could be in any variety of situations. But as far as the weapons combat- Unless I get jumped on my way to or from the dojo, I won't have my bokken handy.

So I'm basically talking about home invasion counter-techniques and I-don't-know-what. Dueling, maybe?

I've just about answered my own question (with a little help from my friends). I'm thinking Kali wins, since it teaches you to use weapons you're more likely to have with you, like folding knives and daggers.

In gun talk circles, there's a saying that the worst Saturday night special is better than the custom .45 race gun you left at home. In the final analysis, that's probably the answer that's most appropriate here, too.
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Old 12-27-2004, 01:13 AM   #11
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Re: Kenbudo vs. Kali vs. European edged arts

Filipino arts are great!!! when it comes to edge weapons, but it depends on who is practicing....... If you put a tall stocky guy, and start teaching him basic blocking using a Kali stick, you'll see that it takes more time for him to adapt the foot work to the techniques, this will be much easier if you show it to a smaller person, because the movement comes more natural.... you'll see that the deferent arts apply better to the body type of the people who developed them,.... for example imagine a 5'4" Filipino moving around a Claimour sword,.... hes balance will be jeopardized by the weight of the sword exposing him to attacks,.... now imagine a 240 pound Saxon or Viking,.... specially a Berserker using a small Spanish Gladiux (Gladiatorial) sword..... the systems where developed according with the reality of combat at the time.... for example Jujutsu deals with throws, Joint locks and strangulations... all techniques that a samurai armor cannot defend, because, it attacks the movement structure of it; European weapons tend to be bigger and heaver because the people were bigger and they had to deal with armored enemies, that if the sword didn't pierce the armor, it will bend it and still cause harm,....... the same applies for all others...... Based on our reality of no armor, no swords being publicly carried, I'll have to say that Filipino arts covers sticks and small and medium knifes, the same that are in our kitchens, a car antenna can be used as a Kali stick, a small box cutter can be carried with no legal problems.... soooooo for me is Espada y Daga along with Kali
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Old 12-27-2004, 09:46 PM   #12
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Re: Kenbudo vs. Kali vs. European edged arts

Quote:
David Olavarría wrote:
Filipino arts are great!!! when it comes to edge weapons, but it depends on who is practicing....... If you put a tall stocky guy, and start teaching him basic blocking using a Kali stick, you'll see that it takes more time for him to adapt the foot work to the techniques, this will be much easier if you show it to a smaller person, because the movement comes more natural.... you'll see that the deferent arts apply better to the body type of the people who developed them,.... for example imagine a 5'4" Filipino moving around a Claimour sword,.... hes balance will be jeopardized by the weight of the sword exposing him to attacks,.... now imagine a 240 pound Saxon or Viking,.... specially a Berserker using a small Spanish Gladiux (Gladiatorial) sword..... the systems where developed according with the reality of combat at the time.... for example Jujutsu deals with throws, Joint locks and strangulations... all techniques that a samurai armor cannot defend, because, it attacks the movement structure of it; European weapons tend to be bigger and heaver because the people were bigger and they had to deal with armored enemies, that if the sword didn't pierce the armor, it will bend it and still cause harm,....... the same applies for all others...... Based on our reality of no armor, no swords being publicly carried, I'll have to say that Filipino arts covers sticks and small and medium knifes, the same that are in our kitchens, a car antenna can be used as a Kali stick, a small box cutter can be carried with no legal problems.... soooooo for me is Espada y Daga along with Kali
The Evil Ways Continue
You don't block that I know of in Kali...Except the X block..and thats only for a "Oh Sh*t!!" situation.

Can't really agree on the footwork, even if someone is taller, the movement is proportionately bigger, but still the same. It's like walking, they'll take bigger strides, but they aren't really walking any different.

Car antannas? You're kidding right?
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Old 12-27-2004, 11:41 PM   #13
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Re: Kenbudo vs. Kali vs. European edged arts

The overhead parry,... is listed many systems as a block,... so when you deflect(using a circular motion allowing the stick to be hit as it deflects) .... Soooooooooo Tommy,... it is a block,... it is called in some systems escudo alto or Hi Shield.... OK second,... car antennas are easily accessible on the street, just get over the fact that you are depriving that Jaguar from AM mourning shows,... rip one and hey, try hitting your own leg with one and then tell me am kidding.... never underestimate the power of AM radio....... Unless you are listening to Rush( Am Hi on legal pills) Limbaugh Now... Tall people... Go and sit on a club and look at tall guys dance,... then tell me about grace of movement... Basically people who are taller depend more on strength than grace and Kali is an art based on grace, and rhythmic movement, but you are entitled to your opinion... I based mine on actual training exercises by fellow instructors and by my own students. One of them is 6' 7" and it is hard for him, to go through sequences when economy of motion (Ask Dan Inosanto about that) is required because in fact, most people are not that tall, so their movements physically travel much less distance there for, are faster, easier to follow with second attacks, and leave less expose areas... Am not saying that tall people are not fit to train in Filipino arts... Am pointing out the fact that they need to learn to compensate for certain physical realities. that if not address in training, can put them in a disadvantage against a person of equal skill,...l referring of course, about the martial art itself

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Old 12-28-2004, 01:06 AM   #14
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Re: Kenbudo vs. Kali vs. European edged arts

Quote:
David Olavarría wrote:
The overhead parry,... is listed many systems as a block,... so when you deflect(using a circular motion allowing the stick to be hit as it deflects) .... Soooooooooo Tommy,... it is a block,... it is called in some systems escudo alto or Hi Shield.... OK second,... car antennas are easily accessible on the street, just get over the fact that you are depriving that Jaguar from AM mourning shows,... rip one and hey, try hitting your own leg with one and then tell me am kidding.... never underestimate the power of AM radio....... Unless you are listening to Rush( Am Hi on legal pills) Limbaugh Now... Tall people... Go and sit on a club and look at tall guys dance,... then tell me about grace of movement... Basically people who are taller depend more on strength than grace and Kali is an art based on grace, and rhythmic movement, but you are entitled to your opinion... I based mine on actual training exercises by fellow instructors and by my own students. One of them is 6' 7" and it is hard for him, to go through sequences when economy of motion (Ask Dan Inosanto about that) is required because in fact, most people are not that tall, so their movements physically travel much less distance there for, are faster, easier to follow with second attacks, and leave less expose areas... Am not saying that tall people are not fit to train in Filipino arts... Am pointing out the fact that they need to learn to compensate for certain physical realities. that if not address in training, can put them in a disadvantage against a person of equal skill,...l referring of course, about the martial art itself
All you had to say was overhead parry. Never heard it called a block

Car antannas are good whipping weapons, but...they'll do little more than sting, and even less depending on what clothes you have on..I guess it could do until you get into enough range for unarmed..maybe punyo into an armbar...

My instructor, one of them, is like 6' 1" - 6' 4" and his footwork is insane...

Do you train/teach Inosanto Blend?
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Old 12-28-2004, 02:44 AM   #15
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Re: Kenbudo vs. Kali vs. European edged arts

6-1 is not tall kid, a normal guy is 6' so hey most likely he developed that foot work,... am talking about natural grace,... it is called (puño) fist, but i like it you seem to know some Spanish, and that shows you are open minded,.... and that will help your training in the future, because the best teachers tend to be non English speaking,.. at least not fluent, so thats good; I hold rank in Dacuerdas Escrima,.... the parry is a block because remember,.... it used to be Machetes they used to fight,.... so a cut to the deltoid area had to be deflected preferably,.... but not everybody is that fast, so the resting of the Machete on the side of your shoulder,... could prevent a nasty cut......... Extra just for you Kiddo: Machete is the implementation by the Bascos from Spain of the Shmithar sword..... just a bonus because you seem like a smart kid..... have fun in your training

Last edited by Adramalek : 12-28-2004 at 02:50 AM.

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Old 12-28-2004, 05:14 AM   #16
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Re: Kenbudo vs. Kali vs. European edged arts

Quote:
David Olavarría wrote:
6-1 is not tall kid, a normal guy is 6' so hey most likely he developed that foot work,... am talking about natural grace,... it is called (puño) fist, but i like it you seem to know some Spanish, and that shows you are open minded,.... and that will help your training in the future, because the best teachers tend to be non English speaking,.. at least not fluent, so thats good; I hold rank in Dacuerdas Escrima,.... the parry is a block because remember,.... it used to be Machetes they used to fight,.... so a cut to the deltoid area had to be deflected preferably,.... but not everybody is that fast, so the resting of the Machete on the side of your shoulder,... could prevent a nasty cut......... Extra just for you Kiddo: Machete is the implementation by the Bascos from Spain of the Shmithar sword..... just a bonus because you seem like a smart kid..... have fun in your training
Our system is based on Sayoc and another I can't spell right, but it sounded like Panburen (I'll ask the correct spelling), so we use more Filipino and English terms than Spanish ones (we still say Espada y Daga, etc.)

Punyo is also correct, no?

And I was thinking of a completely different parry...my bad.

y hablo un poco espanol
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Old 12-28-2004, 08:27 PM   #17
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Re: Kenbudo vs. Kali vs. European edged arts

OK mijo ..... jaja,.. puño ..... just click Alt, and the numbers 164 .... punyo is incorrect in Español ,...so most likely someone didn't know how to get the (ñ) on their keyboard ,...and just went by how it sounded, but now you know and can help them,... remember the Philippines were a Spanish colony until 1898 when the Spanish American war was at its hi,... so too,.. many other islands,.... like my hometown of Puerto Rico, became colonies and basically still are, because if you want for example to vote for the president, you have to travel to one of the 50 states and do it ,... you can't from here, but we were called on the draft for Vietnam like any other American citizen ,.... we are called a commonwealth by politicians, but our constitution says Estado Libre Asociado (Free Associated State),.... last I herd a free state is a Republic, and association doesn't mine to rule someone, every decision is made in the US congress or by the US president that we didn't vote for ,...in 1956 they allow us to get a constitution, but if any law of that Constitution, go against the will of the white house, or the Pentagon,.... guess what... it becomes another paper,... just that... they just don't call it a colony because of the international opinion,... how you think it would look if the defenders of peace and democracy, admitted openly to the world, that they have 4.5 million American citizens that they by law don't allow to vote for the president but can send to war for example,.... look for the most decorated soldier of the Korean War.... ohhhhhh and if you just mention independence they blackball,.. you and call you a communist...that's it no middle ground black or white.... the problem with my people, is the same that a Pit Bull has when it has being chained to long,... even if the chain is gone,.... he wont run because his will has been broken.... but hey,... your history teacher can hook you up with some good facts...... or if he is a republican...... with some awesome lies..... hopefully you be able to make your own mind..... have fun kiddo, and remember mix it up.... it is cool to know techniques, but remember sparing constantly & competing are the only true ways to be effective, so pick up a big dude,.... let him feel superior,.... and when he make that mistake,..(and trust me ...if he is bigger he will make the mistake you just have to wait and capitalize on it) let im have it FULL FORCE.... I hope a could tell you effectiveness is attain by visiting old people on nursing homes,... but no..... you have the will, now develop the instinct.... and after you choke him out.... then,.... do your shinto meditation, and read your favorite Zen quote... but only after he taps or passes out Kid ... that's the standard. The Evil Ways Will Continue

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Old 12-29-2004, 08:03 AM   #18
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Re: Kenbudo vs. Kali vs. European edged arts

Quote:
David Olavarría wrote:
OK mijo ..... jaja,.. puño ..... just click Alt, and the numbers 164 .... punyo is incorrect in Español ,...so most likely someone didn't know how to get the (ñ) on their keyboard ,...and just went by how it sounded, but now you know and can help them,... remember the Philippines were a Spanish colony until 1898 when the Spanish American war was at its hi,... so too,.. many other islands,.... like my hometown of Puerto Rico, became colonies and basically still are, because if you want for example to vote for the president, you have to travel to one of the 50 states and do it ,... you can't from here, but we were called on the draft for Vietnam like any other American citizen ,.... we are called a commonwealth by politicians, but our constitution says Estado Libre Asociado (Free Associated State),.... last I herd a free state is a Republic, and association doesn't mine to rule someone, every decision is made in the US congress or by the US president that we didn't vote for ,...in 1956 they allow us to get a constitution, but if any law of that Constitution, go against the will of the white house, or the Pentagon,.... guess what... it becomes another paper,... just that... they just don't call it a colony because of the international opinion,... how you think it would look if the defenders of peace and democracy, admitted openly to the world, that they have 4.5 million American citizens that they by law don't allow to vote for the president but can send to war for example,.... look for the most decorated soldier of the Korean War.... ohhhhhh and if you just mention independence they blackball,.. you and call you a communist...that's it no middle ground black or white.... the problem with my people, is the same that a Pit Bull has when it has being chained to long,... even if the chain is gone,.... he wont run because his will has been broken.... but hey,... your history teacher can hook you up with some good facts...... or if he is a republican...... with some awesome lies..... hopefully you be able to make your own mind..... have fun kiddo, and remember mix it up.... it is cool to know techniques, but remember sparing constantly & competing are the only true ways to be effective, so pick up a big dude,.... let him feel superior,.... and when he make that mistake,..(and trust me ...if he is bigger he will make the mistake you just have to wait and capitalize on it) let im have it FULL FORCE.... I hope a could tell you effectiveness is attain by visiting old people on nursing homes,... but no..... you have the will, now develop the instinct.... and after you choke him out.... then,.... do your shinto meditation, and read your favorite Zen quote... but only after he taps or passes out Kid ... that's the standard. The Evil Ways Will Continue
I didn't know any of that about Puerto Rico. If I remember correctly, it was the Americans who took over after the Spanish in the Philipines, and finally the Philipines declared independence.

In reality, I'm a big guy myself. I'm about 5' 11" and 220 pounds. So I'm really trying to get my footwork down
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Old 12-29-2004, 08:11 AM   #19
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Re: Kenbudo vs. Kali vs. European edged arts

IMHO, a funny observation; Notice how quickly FMA dominated this thread. Does that answer the question?

BTW: I trained in FMA/JKD with the late Ted Lucaylucay 20 years ago and still make a couple seminars in different systems each year. Something about the smell of burining rattan, the whirl of the sticks, and the beating of the drums. AHHH, life is good.

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Old 12-29-2004, 07:29 PM   #20
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Re: Kenbudo vs. Kali vs. European edged arts

Asking any experts, given equal expertise in the users, who would win a duel between jo and ken? I think the jo has the edge (pun intended) and I also think a bokken wielder would beat a ken wielder. ( I hope I'm using 'ken' correctly meaning a live steel Japanese sword ).
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Old 12-29-2004, 08:11 PM   #21
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Re: Kenbudo vs. Kali vs. European edged arts

Quote:
Dan Guthrie wrote:
...<snip>...I also think a bokken wielder would beat a ken wielder. ( I hope I'm using 'ken' correctly meaning a live steel Japanese sword ).
Why?

Boon.

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Old 12-29-2004, 08:13 PM   #22
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Re: Kenbudo vs. Kali vs. European edged arts

Quote:
Dan Guthrie wrote:
Asking any experts, given equal expertise in the users, who would win a duel between jo and ken? I think the jo has the edge (pun intended) and I also think a bokken wielder would beat a ken wielder. ( I hope I'm using 'ken' correctly meaning a live steel Japanese sword ).
According to legend the only time Musashi was beaten was by a Jo. However, I'll be you good money he would not have been beaten twice. Faced with an unfamiliar weapon you are often at a disadvantage.

I would choose a sharp, pointy, steel weapon over a piece of wood any day.

Something to consider is that weapon and armor tend to evolve together.

Against an unarmored samurai I would take a rapier. A good thrusting weapon with enough of an edge to do damage to skin and muscle.

Against an armored samurai (early Edo let's say) I would want something with a bit more heft to it (Claymore might be too big) or what the samurai from that period themselves preferred - a spear. I'm assuming we are not talking about projectile weapons such as a bow or guns.

The katana used in battle were bigger, heavier and duller than what people carried around at a latter time. The use was not that much different than the above mentioned claymore.

Last edited by PeterR : 12-29-2004 at 08:19 PM.

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Old 12-29-2004, 10:48 PM   #23
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Re: Kenbudo vs. Kali vs. European edged arts

TOMMY ,...you are not a big guy ,... you maybe stocky, but not tall ,...meaning your limbs are not so long....., that a tendency of leaving openings,... created by you body structure. is a problem, you are only 71" hi...... so you should not have the problems that a 6' 6" may confront,..... make sure that your body fat % is low.... by low I mean under 18% , that's gravy.... but with your hight,..... assuming that you have a thick bone structure.,,, you should be alright..... remember , endurance is the key, so boxing can up your endurance...... especially on your arms, that can make a big difference,..... most big dudes relay to much on their power.... but like in the case of some K-1 fighters, they punch themselves out,..... this should be also addressed in you training schedule...... grappling is a good way to develop endurance also,.... for example, try from the mounted pos. getting an arm bar (Jujigatame)... then go back to Mount ,... let your training partner throw some hits,... and do another bar on the opposite side,... keeping a count of : position, two deflections, arm bar,...... and go back to position up to 10 times,..... then change over....... you go on the Christ position, and your buddy does the drill..... this can be used even with Aikido,.... for instance: uke punches,.... nage goes for Kote Gaeshi,... and then mounts,.... after that you start the drill...... hope your training goes..... smoooooth.... pimp daddy
The Evil Ways Keep Bugging

Evil Ways Of Dave (Tha Snake)
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Old 12-30-2004, 05:46 AM   #24
thomas_dixon
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Red face Re: Kenbudo vs. Kali vs. European edged arts

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David Olavarría wrote:
TOMMY ,...you are not a big guy ,... you maybe stocky, but not tall ,...meaning your limbs are not so long....., that a tendency of leaving openings,... created by you body structure. is a problem, you are only 71" hi...... so you should not have the problems that a 6' 6" may confront,..... make sure that your body fat % is low.... by low I mean under 18% , that's gravy.... but with your hight,..... assuming that you have a thick bone structure.,,, you should be alright..... remember , endurance is the key, so boxing can up your endurance...... especially on your arms, that can make a big difference,..... most big dudes relay to much on their power.... but like in the case of some K-1 fighters, they punch themselves out,..... this should be also addressed in you training schedule...... grappling is a good way to develop endurance also,.... for example, try from the mounted pos. getting an arm bar (Jujigatame)... then go back to Mount ,... let your training partner throw some hits,... and do another bar on the opposite side,... keeping a count of : position, two deflections, arm bar,...... and go back to position up to 10 times,..... then change over....... you go on the Christ position, and your buddy does the drill..... this can be used even with Aikido,.... for instance: uke punches,.... nage goes for Kote Gaeshi,... and then mounts,.... after that you start the drill...... hope your training goes..... smoooooth.... pimp daddy
The Evil Ways Keep Bugging
Thanks for the info

My FMA class thankfully includes grappling, and even knife fighting from the mount position
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Old 12-30-2004, 05:53 AM   #25
thomas_dixon
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Re: Kenbudo vs. Kali vs. European edged arts

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Dan Guthrie wrote:
Asking any experts, given equal expertise in the users, who would win a duel between jo and ken? I think the jo has the edge (pun intended) and I also think a bokken wielder would beat a ken wielder. ( I hope I'm using 'ken' correctly meaning a live steel Japanese sword ).
Depends. Unless the Bokken wielder was Musashi, I doubt it. One proper cut to the bokken and half his weapon is gone.

Jo and Ken? Probably same thing.

The Daito has a major advantage over any wooden weapon in the fact it can cut and thrust/stab. While a wodden weapon can break bones, a Daito can sever limbs.

Distance may be the only advantage a Jo user has, and even that can be taken away depending on the length of the Blade and Tsuka on the Daito.
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