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Old 04-03-2001, 10:19 AM   #1
sceptoor
Dojo: http://ctr.usf.edu/aikido/
Location: Tampa, Fl
Join Date: Nov 2000
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Last night I recieved my first injury. yay.

As I was sensei's uke several times, we were working on some new techniques(new to me anyway), and at one point I needed to slow down during the "demonstration", and therefore had less momentum than I was used to, and ended up landing on my shoulder pretty hard. I should note that I heard a sort of popping/crunching sound.(?) After that, I could no longer perform rolls on my left side, and didn't have much strength to even lift my arm,, let alone do huge circles over my head. I also had trouble rolling on my right side after that, as it seemed to affect my left side anyway. I put ice on it(on and off for a few hours) and took some advil and am hoping for the best, but my real concern is long term damage. Is it possible I may have torn something?? If so, how can one tell?? It seems to feel the same as it did last night. Although I can move it in most directions, it is not without pain, and I especially cannot make any sudden movements. I particularly have trouble extending my left arm in front of me and then crossing over to my right, or forming a "wheel" if you will, seemingly the same position my arm would be in while taking a forward roll. Anyway, any suggestions?? Has anyone alse had this happen to them??

C. Martin

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Old 04-03-2001, 10:29 AM   #2
akiy
 
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Quote:
sceptoor wrote:
Is it possible I may have torn something??
Yes...
Quote:
If so, how can one tell??
By going to a doctor...

-- Jun

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Old 04-03-2001, 10:48 AM   #3
Aikilove
Dojo: Lunds Aikidoklubb
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Hi!
I'll second Jun's advice, but I have had sholder stretch/pops/bumps 3 or 4 times and all of them made me take it easy for a week. After that week I could slowly practice again and after a couple of more days I didn't feel anything. So If you feel the need to - go see a professional about it.

Jakob Blomquist
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Old 04-03-2001, 11:31 AM   #4
sceptoor
Dojo: http://ctr.usf.edu/aikido/
Location: Tampa, Fl
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Quote:
akiy wrote:
Quote:
sceptoor wrote:
Is it possible I may have torn something??
Yes...
Quote:
If so, how can one tell??
By going to a doctor...

-- Jun
I meant, is there an easier way to tell than going to see a doctor?? Since I no longer have MEDICAL INSURANCE after changing jobs last year, going to a doctor is a very expensive option and see no need in racking up a medical bill for x-rays or MRI's to tell me something I may be able to tell on my own by doing some simple tests. I figured, this has to be a common injury, common enough that there may be someone here in this forum that could guide me through whatever tests that would tell me whether or not I tore something. If I have, THEN, I may be willing to see a doctor. I left the doctor option out of my initial question because I had already ruled it out in my mind. But thanks anyway JUN.

I'm starting to doubt I did tear something, but when I hit the mat it didn't sound good at all. Maybe it was my bone scraping cartilage as it popped, I don't know, but I was hoping that someone else here may know exactly that "sound" I'm talking about and tell me if they healed quickly or if it took months.

Thanks in advance

C. Martin

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Old 04-03-2001, 04:54 PM   #5
Jim23
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Chris,

There's a lot here, if you have the time to look.

http://www.aikidofaq.com/health/index.html

Also, there's a doctor here on the forum, maybe she'll have some advice.

Jim23

Remember, all generalizations are false
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Old 04-03-2001, 08:28 PM   #6
guest1234
Join Date: Jun 2000
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Jun's advice is the best...it is hard to tell what is wrong with someone even if you are actually touching them. But i understand the insurance issue...so some things to consider.
If you landed right on the point of your shoulder, you may have stretched or torn the ligament that holds your collar bone to the part of your shoulder blade known as the acromion...called various names (shoulder point injury, AC separation, shoulder separation). Xrays can confirm this, since in milder cases the distance the bones are separated (due to the new laxity in the ligament) is relatively small...more severe cases you can actually see the end of the collar bone riding much higher on the injured side than the non-injured. mild cases need rest, ice, and something like advil/motrin/aleve. you may need to do exercises to increase your range of motion, like standing near a wall and walking your hand up the wall to raise your shoulder, or using a broomstick (or jo) between both hands to move the bad arm with the good (after you rest it a bit first)rarely, surgery is needed.
i think you would have noticed if you broke your collar bone...
you could have strained or torn your rotator cuff, often gives you problems in raising your arm especially in the first 90 degrees of motion. this usually happens with a rotation or twisting (there's also a lip of cartilage that holds the head of the arm bone in place in the shoulder joint that gets torn sometimes)...not sure how you could do that with the fall, unless your arm got twisted or flailed, or in your fall you partially popped your shoulder out of place and then it went back (fancy name is subluxed)...you really need an exam to tell what you did, but the good news is resting it for awhile and taking anti-inflammatories will do no harm (unless you have asthma or ulcers) so you could try that.But my best advice---see a doctor.
another suggestion, see your sensei or one of the senior instructors...there are usually medical folks in the dojo (my current one had five docs at one time, all my past ones had paramedics and or nurses as well as me) but even if not, the instructors themselves have either suffered or seen most injuries and are good at telling what needs to go directly to a doc and what can probably get better. So if you are not going to see a doc, please at least let an instructor take a look...besides, they can give you the best tips on not hurting anything else while you are mending.
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Old 04-03-2001, 09:35 PM   #7
sceptoor
Dojo: http://ctr.usf.edu/aikido/
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Wow, thank you Colleen. I appreciate you spending the time with that answer because it helps.

Quote:
If you landed right on the point of your shoulder, you may have stretched or torn the ligament that holds your collar bone to the part of your shoulder blade known as the acromion...called various names (shoulder point injury, AC separation, shoulder separation).....you could have strained or torn your rotator cuff, often gives you problems in raising your arm especially in the first 90 degrees of motion. this usually happens with a rotation or twisting (there's also a lip of cartilage that holds the head of the arm bone in place in the shoulder joint that gets torn sometimes)...not sure how you could do that with the fall, unless your arm got twisted or flailed, or in your fall you partially popped your shoulder out of place and then it went back (fancy name is subluxed)...you really need an exam to tell what you did, but the good news is resting it for awhile and taking anti-inflammatories will do no harm (unless you have asthma or ulcers) so you could try that.But my best advice---see a doctor.


Although I did a standard forward roll, this time I went slower so as to help sensei demonstrate. Without much momentum, I landed on the pointt or just behind the point of my shoulder, but I don't believe I separated the collarbone at all, I'm on Aleve, so I've been trying to move my arm. As I'm doing this, I'm feeling the collarbone(clavicle, right?) and it feels firmly in place.
"... or in your fall you partially popped your shoulder out of place and then it went back (fancy name is subluxed)..."--this sounds more like what happened.

On asking my sensei, he said put some ice on it and take advil, and that he empathizes. He also immediately tested to see if I could do certain things with my arm and found that I could, so he doesn't seem to think anything was torn but still gave the same advice you did and said he's been there many, many times.

Thanks again Colleen!

C. Martin

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Old 04-03-2001, 09:45 PM   #8
Jim23
Join Date: Jan 2001
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Hey C.,

I'm glad you got some good info on your shoulder.


I'm trying to give you some help and you're ignoring me. What the fartenheimer!

Peace, my brother.

Jim23

Remember, all generalizations are false
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Old 04-03-2001, 10:32 PM   #9
sceptoor
Dojo: http://ctr.usf.edu/aikido/
Location: Tampa, Fl
Join Date: Nov 2000
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Sorry Jim!!

I didn't mean to exclude you. Thanks for supplying the link to that info. Sometimes I completely forget that there are pages on this site dedicated to specific subjects. I've come to appreciate your resourcefullness.

Thanks again

C. Martin

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