Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-09-2004, 12:21 AM   #26
siwilson
Dojo: Kenshinkai Yoshinkan Aikido
Location: Portsmouth
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 450
England
Offline
Re: Nice Jiyu waza

Quote:
Hiroaki Izumi wrote:
There are more differences between teachers within a single style than there are differences between different styles, or even different arts.
But not in the foundations of Yoshinkan. Fixed kamae, kihon dosa and kihon waza, even how you sit down!!!!!

Each instructor has their own ideas above that though!

Osu!
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2004, 12:24 AM   #27
maikerus
Dojo: Roppongi Yoshinkan Aikido / Roppongi, Tokyo, Japan
Location: Tokyo
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 571
Japan
Offline
Re: Nice Jiyu waza

Quote:
Si Wilson wrote:
But not in the foundations of Yoshinkan. Fixed kamae, kihon dosa and kihon waza, even how you sit down!!!!!

Each instructor has their own ideas above that though!
Yeah...everyone still focuses on a different aspect of it.

I mean, if there are 237 different points to think about when you stand in kamae, you know that there are going to be 237 different instructors emphasizing each point...differently

<sigh>

--Michael

Hiriki no yosei 3 - The kihon that makes your head ache instead of your legs
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2004, 12:54 AM   #28
Bronson
 
Bronson's Avatar
Dojo: Seiwa Dojo and Southside Dojo
Location: Battle Creek & Kalamazoo, MI
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,677
Offline
Re: Nice Jiyu waza

Quote:
Bronson Diffin wrote:
Nah, YoshiOrcs just have harder rocks in their heads
I bet it makes for one hell of a head-butt atemi though

Bronson

or maybe I meant butt-head??

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2004, 01:06 AM   #29
JJF
 
JJF's Avatar
Dojo: Vestfyn Aikikai Denmark
Location: Vissenbjerg
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 780
Denmark
Offline
Re: Nice Jiyu waza

Please... let's stop this p...... contest!!!! It seems like most of us tend to forget that there should be an element of forgiveness in Aikido

Michael Fooks is dead on - you cannot judge any style of aikido based only on video, and why yes Daren, sign me up for a group hug. Preferably followed by a good practice ;D

BTW: Mark - I'll second that statement about Nishio sensei. He incorporates a gentle attitude with a very powerful technique and some potentially rather nasty atemi blows. Too soft fore some - too hard for others. We have different objectives and needs.

I bet no one becomes an aikido shihan without posessing some kind of qualities and a powerful aikido - the nature of each shihans power however may be based on different aspects of Aikido - Let's stop arguing about what kind of power is better than others, and start learning from each other.

- Jørgen Jakob Friis

Inspiration - Aspiration - Perspiration
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2004, 02:14 AM   #30
maikerus
Dojo: Roppongi Yoshinkan Aikido / Roppongi, Tokyo, Japan
Location: Tokyo
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 571
Japan
Offline
Re: Nice Jiyu waza

Hmm...I don't really think it is a p..... contest. Although there may be in a point where the thread turned away from the discussion of the video and turned into something else.

I was taking it more as a lot of good natured fun between people who do something very similar but have different tastes.

Anyone every discuss what beer was best (for them) - actually isn't there a thread on that? Should we stop that thread, too? Of course not...because it doesn't really matter.

The point is that the discussion doesn't really matter its just fun to talk about something you enjoy and meet people of similar minds. Based on some of these "discussions" we've had I'm planning on visiting and training with some of the people who are joking together. Unless of course, noone answers the phone when I am in town <sigh>

cheers,

--Michael

Hiriki no yosei 3 - The kihon that makes your head ache instead of your legs
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2004, 04:44 AM   #31
justinm
Location: Maidenhead
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 167
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Nice Jiyu waza

Quote:
Michael Stuempel wrote:
Yeah...everyone still focuses on a different aspect of it.

I mean, if there are 237 different points to think about when you stand in kamae, you know that there are going to be 237 different instructors emphasizing each point...differently

<sigh>

--Michael
Michael, I'm up to 235 points, but the last two have got me beat. I think you must have double counted somewhere

Justin

Justin McCarthy
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2004, 06:52 AM   #32
seank
Location: Victoria
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 132
Australia
Offline
Wink Re: Nice Jiyu waza

Quote:
Michael Fooks wrote:
It looks like the final throw isn't being completed and that uke is just going.
There are a lot of techniques in the clip that are very smooth looking, but I wonder if it is largely due to the ukes relationship to Robert Mustard.

I quite often see instructors favorite uke being able to receive techniques far more fluidly and effortlessly than other uke do. In many cases it comes down to familiarity with the style and technique of the instructor.

Having said that though, look at the video again, at the 49 second mark; it takes uke several seconds to regain his composure and footing after a very heavy kokyu-nage (uke doesn't even slap from the high fall until after he has hit the ground).

I guess there's something to be said about familiarity and making things look very easy... it looks sensational on video, but may feel very different being on the receiving end.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2004, 09:36 AM   #33
maikerus
Dojo: Roppongi Yoshinkan Aikido / Roppongi, Tokyo, Japan
Location: Tokyo
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 571
Japan
Offline
Re: Nice Jiyu waza

Quote:
Justin McCarthy wrote:
Michael, I'm up to 235 points, but the last two have got me beat. I think you must have double counted somewhere

Justin
D*mn..you're right. I was counting in Japanese and made a mistake in the translation. My apologies to everyone I misled.

--Michael

Hiriki no yosei 3 - The kihon that makes your head ache instead of your legs
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2004, 01:35 PM   #34
siwilson
Dojo: Kenshinkai Yoshinkan Aikido
Location: Portsmouth
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 450
England
Offline
Re: Nice Jiyu waza

Quote:
Justin McCarthy wrote:
Michael, I'm up to 235 points, but the last two have got me beat. I think you must have double counted somewhere

Justin
Quote:
Michael Stuempel wrote:
D*mn..you're right. I was counting in Japanese and made a mistake in the translation. My apologies to everyone I misled.

--Michael
Hmmm, was it a miss count? Did you count tensing your butt and relaxing your, er, groinal area!


Osu!
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2004, 03:14 PM   #35
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
Offline
Re: Nice Jiyu waza

Quote:
Michael Stuempel wrote:
I've heard a couple of people (including some of my students) say that in the video Robert Sensei looks too relaxed and that it looks like Nick is throwing himself.

I disagree (mainly because I've been his uke and I flinched at some of the throws on the video), but it does bring up the point (as someone else mentioned to me) that it is very hard to judge someone's Aikido from video and also to learn from video. It might also help explain the airy-fairy reputation Aikido has from demos.

Any comments?

--Michael
I was there in person at that demonstration (you can see me in the stands just as the clip opens) and I've also taken ukemi a couple of times for Mustard Sensei...its not fake, he does throw you, and if your ukemi is not up to snuff (mine often is not) you will feel pain. Little Nick has some really nice ukemi, he is very fit, and from what I hear, a card carrying member of the HARD BASTARD club.

I don't think you can learn from video myself...if you already have a base in the art, you can learn things to add...but the base has to be there already in my opinion. As for judging...I know some people who have very nice aikido that I don't listen to any more when it comes to videos...I know others that I listen to every time. Case by case...as always...

Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2004, 03:34 PM   #36
siwilson
Dojo: Kenshinkai Yoshinkan Aikido
Location: Portsmouth
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 450
England
Offline
Re: Nice Jiyu waza

True, true!

Or "Batula, batula" as they say in the home of the UK Yoshinkan - Malaysia!

Osu!
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2004, 03:50 AM   #37
batemanb
 
batemanb's Avatar
Dojo: Seibukan Aikido UK
Location: body in UK, heart still in Japan
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,029
Offline
Re: Nice Jiyu waza

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
I was there in person at that demonstration
I saw you Ron

A difficult problem is easily solved by asking yourself the question, "Just how would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2004, 05:04 AM   #38
philipsmith
Dojo: Ren Shin Kan
Location: Birmingham
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 312
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Nice Jiyu waza

Quote:
Michael Stuempel wrote:
I've heard a couple of people (including some of my students) say that in the video Robert Sensei looks too relaxed and that it looks like Nick is throwing himself.

I disagree (mainly because I've been his uke and I flinched at some of the throws on the video), but it does bring up the point (as someone else mentioned to me) that it is very hard to judge someone's Aikido from video and also to learn from video. It might also help explain the airy-fairy reputation Aikido has from demos.

Any comments?

--Michael
Totally agree. The late Doshu Ueshiba Kisshamoru was derided in some quarters for his "soft" technique and apparent coreographed Aikido. I only ever took ukeme for him twice but I distinctly remember being shocked at how hard the tatami was especially when it had felt nice and soft two minutes before!
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2004, 06:01 AM   #39
anselm
 
anselm's Avatar
Dojo: Ken-Shin-Kai
Location: Munich
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6
Germany
Offline
Re: Nice Jiyu waza

guys, if aikido was all about beating up each other i would instantly stop practicing! didn't osensei himself say that there should be no competition and you should just train for yourself and the only victoy should also be the victory over yourself? and since all "whatevernamed-styles" descend from osensei's aikido - as watanabe sensei, my teacher's sensei said: "all my students are not "my" students, they are students of osensei - i dont get the problem...but to give a statement to the "rocks-discussion": aiki rocks, whether aikikai or yoshinkan aikido or whatever aiki-style...as the names say, its all aiki.

Doka of the Day - December 10, 2004
The sun, the moon and the earth
All have become Aiki.
Standing on this bridge,
The great expanse of the sea is
The Way of the Mountain Echo.

- Morihei Ueshiba
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2004, 06:02 AM   #40
anselm
 
anselm's Avatar
Dojo: Ken-Shin-Kai
Location: Munich
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6
Germany
Offline
Re: Nice Jiyu waza

also i did not watch the video yet ;-)
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2004, 06:20 AM   #41
siwilson
Dojo: Kenshinkai Yoshinkan Aikido
Location: Portsmouth
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 450
England
Offline
Re: Nice Jiyu waza

Quote:
Anselm Kusser wrote:
guys, if aikido was all about beating up each other i would instantly stop practicing!
Well, it is not ALL about that!

Osu!
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2004, 06:21 AM   #42
siwilson
Dojo: Kenshinkai Yoshinkan Aikido
Location: Portsmouth
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 450
England
Offline
Re: Nice Jiyu waza

Quote:
Anselm Kusser wrote:
The sun, the moon and the earth
All have become Aiki.
Standing on this bridge,
The great expanse of the sea is
The Way of the Mountain Echo
Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall
All the King's horses and all the King's men
Couldn't put Humpty together again


Osu!
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2004, 08:08 AM   #43
Vincent Munoz
Dojo: None
Location: Miami, Florida
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 34
Philippines
Offline
Re: Nice Jiyu waza

One in Budo,

The mountain does not laugh at the river because it is lowly nor the river laughs at the mountain because it cannot move about. O'sensei

Remember this guys from O'sensei

one in budo,

Kohai Bong
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2004, 11:34 AM   #44
Rocky Izumi
Dojo: GUST Aikido Club
Location: Salwa, Kuwait
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 381
Kuwait
Offline
Re: Nice Jiyu waza

Quote:
Philip Smith wrote:
Totally agree. The late Doshu Ueshiba Kisshamoru was derided in some quarters for his "soft" technique and apparent coreographed Aikido. I only ever took ukeme for him twice but I distinctly remember being shocked at how hard the tatami was especially when it had felt nice and soft two minutes before!
Exact opposite of my experience. When I went to hit him it was like punching smoke. I swear I hit him, at least his gi, but his body wasn't there. When I grabbed, it was like grabbing smoke and the moment I thought "Oh shit." I realized I was already on the ground and didn't realize or feel how I got there. Funny thing, thinking about falling and finding you are already looking up at the ceiling. The people off to the side watching the TV demo being taped said I hit the mats real hard. Maybe I lost consciousness there for a second, I don't know but I can't even remember taking the ukemi so it felt real soft. So, it didn't feel very hard at all even though they said the whole building shook.

Rock
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2004, 02:25 PM   #45
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
Offline
Re: Nice Jiyu waza

Hey Rock, sounds like a truly wild ride!

Aikido...what a gas!
RT

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2004, 02:28 PM   #46
siwilson
Dojo: Kenshinkai Yoshinkan Aikido
Location: Portsmouth
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 450
England
Offline
Re: Nice Jiyu waza

Quote:
Vincent Munoz wrote:
The mountain does not laugh at the river because it is lowly nor the river laughs at the mountain because it cannot move about. O'sensei
Ring a ring o' roses,
A pocket full of posies,
A-tishoo! A-tishoo!
We all fall down

Osu!
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2004, 03:06 PM   #47
Rocky Izumi
Dojo: GUST Aikido Club
Location: Salwa, Kuwait
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 381
Kuwait
Offline
Re: Nice Jiyu waza

The experience taught me something though. There is little difference between someone throwing themselves when you ask them to and you throwing someone who resists since the objective is the outcome when it comes to throwing someone. I sometimes think of doing techniques in terms of convincing someone it is more comfortable on the ground than standing. If I apply a nikkyo hard enough, most people will go to the ground since it is more comfortable there. I am not trying to take them to the ground, I am just convincing them that standing there in front of me is not a good idea. The same goes for an irimi nage or shiho nage or anything else. I am convincing them that being somewhere else is a good idea because where they are, they are off balance. Then, the same goes for atemi. It is a better idea for uke to be not where my hand is going than to stay where they are. If they are able to react before my hand hits them, then all power to them. If they are too slow, my hand hits them and they are usually convinced that their head or body is in the wrong place.
I think that is what Doshu did. He convinced my body even as I was attacking him so that my mind had not yet caught up and I lost concious track of what was happening. My body could react that fast but my mind couldn't. I was operating on reflex rather than conciousness so my mind never registered the pounding.

Rock
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2004, 04:19 PM   #48
ravered
Location: lowell
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 5
Offline
Re: Nice Jiyu waza

Quote:
Michael Young wrote:
MY SENSEI CAN BEAT UP YOUR SENSEI NANYNANYBOOBOO
LOL, I would like to see to Aikidoist go at it. Both of your Sensei's just standing there waiting for the other to attack.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2004, 07:04 PM   #49
siwilson
Dojo: Kenshinkai Yoshinkan Aikido
Location: Portsmouth
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 450
England
Offline
Re: Nice Jiyu waza

Quote:
LOL, I would like to see to Aikidoist go at it. Both of your Sensei's just standing there waiting for the other to attack.
Nah! My Sensei would attack AND win!!!!!!!!!!


Osu!
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2004, 09:29 AM   #50
Bill Danosky
 
Bill Danosky's Avatar
Dojo: BN Yoshinkan
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 433
United_States
Offline
Re: Nice Jiyu waza

Quote:
Jordan Steele wrote:
My Aikikai sensei rocks and could clean out an entire dojo of Yoshikaners.
Oh, yeah? Well, who do you think would win between your sensei, Superman and the Terminator?
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Aikido DVDs and Video Downloads - by George Ledyard Sensei & other great teachers from AikidoDVDS.Com



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Randori No Kata - history etc DaveS Techniques 14 09-30-2006 08:59 PM
Testing requirements kyu levels arjandevries Testing 10 08-07-2006 08:26 PM
Difference btw randori and jiyu waza xuzen Language 10 08-27-2004 11:43 PM
jiyu waza... question Jeff Tibbetts Techniques 24 10-28-2003 12:20 PM
Randori vs Jiyu Waza Jenesis General 2 08-18-2002 07:25 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:40 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate