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Old 12-08-2004, 10:30 PM   #51
maikerus
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Re: Article: "Is Aikido a Martial Art?"

Quote:
Hiroaki Izumi wrote:
The term Aikidoka is usually reserved for professional Aikido practitioners.

Rock
Really, I hadn't heard that. In fact the only term I had ever heard until really recently - like about 2 minutes ago - for those that study Aikido was Aikidoka.

Not doubting you Rock, just wondering if others define Aikidoka the same way and use Aikidoist for us amateurs, or if its lost that meaning along the way...anyone?

--Michael

Hiriki no yosei 3 - The kihon that makes your head ache instead of your legs
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Old 12-08-2004, 10:41 PM   #52
PeterR
 
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Re: Article: "Is Aikido a Martial Art?"

Quote:
Michael Stuempel wrote:
Really, I hadn't heard that. In fact the only term I had ever heard until really recently - like about 2 minutes ago - for those that study Aikido was Aikidoka.

Not doubting you Rock, just wondering if others define Aikidoka the same way and use Aikidois
Rock is right and this whole Aikidoist/Aikidoka is one of my pet peeves.

In Japan the suffix Ka denotes profession. In the Judo world people start being called Judoka after they have reached a certain rank (6th Dan?) and at the very least in Aikido it should apply to a seriously commited amateur of some rank.

I am very carefull to say that I do Aikido or even I play Aikido rather than refer to myself as an Aikidoka.

Michael - I would consider you an Aikidoka but not your students.
There was quite an involved thread on this issue but I can't seem to find it.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 12-08-2004, 10:48 PM   #53
kironin
 
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Re: Article: "Is Aikido a Martial Art?"

Quote:
Peter Rehse wrote:
Rock is right and this whole Aikidoist/Aikidoka is one of my pet peeves.
I have never really liked Aikidoist. Sounds something like Exorcist.

I have always used "Aikido student" or I study Aikido and avoid the whole issue.

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Old 12-08-2004, 10:52 PM   #54
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Re: Article: "Is Aikido a Martial Art?"

The link for the discussion is here.

Agree with Craig.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 12-08-2004, 11:03 PM   #55
kironin
 
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Re: Article: "Is Aikido a Martial Art?"

and for those who haven't seen the Exorcist

http://www.angryalien.com/0204/exorcistbunnies.html


take notice of the ukemi.


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Old 12-08-2004, 11:23 PM   #56
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Re: Article: "Is Aikido a Martial Art?"

Your are a bad man. Downright evil.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 12-09-2004, 12:01 AM   #57
maikerus
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Re: Article: "Is Aikido a Martial Art?"

I usually say "study Aikido". I really don't like the term "play" even a little bit. I thought Aikidoka sounded a little gay, and I'd never heard of Aikidoist...which also sounds gay.

"do Aikido" also works for me.

Thanks for the bunnies,

--Michael

Hiriki no yosei 3 - The kihon that makes your head ache instead of your legs
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Old 12-09-2004, 06:33 AM   #58
Peter Goldsbury
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Re: Article: "Is Aikido a Martial Art?"

In Japanese the suffix 'ka' does not always indicate that the doer of the activity is a professional. There are far too many compounds ending in '-ka' for one to be able to make such a generalization. The sense of 'ka' really depends on what comes before it. Thus, an 'aikenka' is a dog lover; a 'kibenka' is a sophist, a 'shoushokuka' is a light eater (opposite to a 'kenkanka'), and 'koushokuka', 'ryoushokuka', 'gyoshokuka' are all species of lecher (professional or otherwise).

I think Doshu would never be called an 'aikidouka' in Japan, except by someone who knows nothing about the art. I think the term designates someone who has put in a good number of years of training and who has a fair measure of expertise in the art, or someone who approaches aikido with such enthusiasm and dedication that it becomes the dominant influence in life. You know, the person who goes from seminar to seminar, with a huge weapon bag slung over the shoulder, and is the mainstay of daily training in the dojo. If you omit a few syllables from 'aikidouka', you get 'aikouka', which describes this person more exactly, but has nothing to do with aikido (the kanji being quite different).

Best regards,

P A Goldsbury
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Old 12-09-2004, 08:13 AM   #59
Miguelspride67
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Re: Article: "Is Aikido a Martial Art?"

Hello Mr.Jun Akiyama

First of all i wan it to thanks you for letting me expres my self in one of the biggest web pages of martial arts.
Look I'm from Dominican Republic and Aikido is a recent martial art in town.
My Dojos name is Shugyo Shin and we are affiliated to Aikikai since 2003, our direct sensei is Phillip Berrios from Puerto Rico, and his alway under the supervision of Yamada Sensei.

Last edited by Miguelspride67 : 12-09-2004 at 08:19 AM.
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Old 12-09-2004, 08:16 AM   #60
Miguelspride67
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Re: Article: "Is Aikido a Martial Art?"

Aikido is BUDO, more than a Martial Art i a Martial WAY
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Old 12-09-2004, 08:23 AM   #61
Kevin Temple
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Re: Article: "Is Aikido a Martial Art?"

I don't believe claiming the different styles of Aikido are not martial arts at all would be correct, because the can certainly be used for defense, especially in the hands of a dedicated/skilled practitioner, however, IMO certain styles of Aikido are different martial arts. It seems that some people can't deal with that. And being dance-like doesn't neccessarrily exclude something from being a martial art, as long as it works. Capoeira looks like crazy dancing, but as far as I know, its decidedly martial.
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Old 12-09-2004, 08:40 AM   #62
Miguelspride67
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Re: Article: "Is Aikido a Martial Art?"

hey Kevin you for sure know what your saying. i like that
Thats the same thing with some Kung-fu Style, Have one of you guys watch Bagua is mortiferus
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Old 12-09-2004, 08:48 AM   #63
happysod
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Re: Article: "Is Aikido a Martial Art?"

To paraphrase (badly) an old quote - being an independent ki dancing fool definitely seems a case of being not much to speak of but a hell of a uke to talk about... (bursts into song with a sob vibrating in his throat- "but I did it myyyy wayyy", apologies for the b-flat at the end)
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Old 12-09-2004, 10:13 AM   #64
CNYMike
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Re: Article: "Is Aikido a Martial Art?"

Quote:
Michael Stuempel wrote:
..... I really don't like the term "play" even a little bit .....
FYI --- and in case you didn't know (otherwise disregard) --- the term "play" is perfectly valid in Filipino martial arts. It's not that they don't take it seriously -- they do --- but the idea is to do it carefully and safely for the sake of learning the art. Guro Kevin Seaman made the analogy of learning to play the drums; you start off slowly with those brush-sticks, then build up to wild stuff over time. In the same way, FMA people start slowly and safely and work up. Indonesian art people, too.

So if you see the words "play" or "player" associated with a martil art, it's not demeaning or insulting, just connoting that they're training safely, not fighting. And my knee-jerk reaction to "play Aikido" or "Aikido player" would be the same way.

FYI.

Quote:
..... I thought Aikidoka sounded a little gay, and I'd never heard of Aikidoist...which also sounds gay.
Oh, you thilly! (I'm gonna get if to that one, I know it.)

Quote:
.... "do Aikido" also works for me.

Thanks for the bunnies,

--Michael
Yes, the bunnies were evil

-- 'Nother Michael
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Old 12-09-2004, 11:31 AM   #65
jonreading
 
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Re: Article: "Is Aikido a Martial Art?"

American baseball started in the late 1800's and became popular in the 1900's. Today, we see baseball as it is played in the 2000's. Baseball in 1895 looks nothing like baseball today, yet most people do not contest that the sport is still baseball. Why?

I believe that aikido is foremost a martial art, and budo as the product of training. I agree that training is not as intense as it used to be, and people do not train with the same dedication. How hard to you pound the iron to work out the impurities? We do need more intesity in training, but that doesn't mean "harder" training. There is an important distinction between the two terms.

I believe that there is "hard" aikido out there, but it's called daito ryu aiki jujitsu. It's good stuff and very effective, but not aikido. I think it is easy to confuse the two arts because they are similar in practice. I feel that good aikido has elements of daito ryu in it because my personal feeling is that daito ryu is the backbone of aikido. But I don't force my students to practice daito ryu, because they want to practice aikido.

Same argument, different person. Aikido is not the same as it was in the 40's, and won't be the same in 100 years. We are the guardians of aikido and must preserve it as effective technique for the world in which we live. Ellis Sensei is just conservative...
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Old 12-09-2004, 02:18 PM   #66
Rocky Izumi
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Re: Article: "Is Aikido a Martial Art?"

Quote:
Peter A Goldsbury wrote:
I think the term designates someone who has put in a good number of years of training and who has a fair measure of expertise in the art, or someone who approaches aikido with such enthusiasm and dedication that it becomes the dominant influence in life. You know, the person who goes from seminar to seminar, with a huge weapon bag slung over the shoulder, and is the mainstay of daily training in the dojo. If you omit a few syllables from 'aikidouka', you get 'aikouka', which describes this person more exactly, but has nothing to do with aikido (the kanji being quite different).

Best regards,
Hee hee hee. Seriously though. I used to use the term more generally as you describe until I got wacked in the back of the head by Tohei Akira Sensei for using the term so loosely. (This was back in the early 80's.) But then, Japanese is such a evolving language that I can't keep up since I no longer reside there. I had to translate a car manual for a person here who bought a used Toyota from Japan. I couldn't believe the Anglicisation of the Japanese language. A couple times I got a little confused but the word was in Katakana so I figured it had to be an Anglicisation of something and figured it out. My friends in Japan still tell me I talk like their grandfather.

Rock
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Old 12-13-2004, 09:51 AM   #67
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Re: Article: "Is Aikido a Martial Art?"

I think synchronised swimming is one of the more spectacular events in the olympics. Specially womens synchronised swimming... ;D
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Old 12-13-2004, 10:32 AM   #68
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Re: Article: "Is Aikido a Martial Art?"

Quote:
Peter Rehse wrote:
Rock is right and this whole Aikidoist/Aikidoka is one of my pet peeves...I am very carefull to say that I do Aikido or even I play Aikido rather than refer to myself as an Aikidoka...
I don't even like saying player. In urban street slang, being a player means you're a pimp or have those tendencies.

While I'm not over-joyed with Aikidoist, I use it. If someone could come up with something better, I'd switch in a heartbeat.

It is not practice that makes perfect, it is correct practice that makes perfect.
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Old 12-13-2004, 03:01 PM   #69
markwalsh
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Re: Article: "Is Aikido a Martial Art?"

Wristgrabber

Started off as an insult from some kung fu friends, but I know few people who have reclaimed it now.
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Old 12-13-2004, 03:36 PM   #70
Rocky Izumi
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Re: Article: "Is Aikido a Martial Art?"

I prefer Aiki-penitent.

Rock
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Old 12-14-2004, 11:23 AM   #71
CNYMike
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Re: Article: "Is Aikido a Martial Art?"

^^ Yes, that works for me, too.
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Old 12-14-2004, 12:58 PM   #72
kaishaku
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Re: Article: "Is Aikido a Martial Art?"

Dibbs on "chicken chaser."
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Old 12-14-2004, 02:28 PM   #73
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Re: Article: "Is Aikido a Martial Art?"

Why not just say "Aikido Practitioner"...

By the way after watching the videos on the site of the article author, I must say that the videos looked less practiacl than at my school.
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Old 12-14-2004, 09:55 PM   #74
Rocky Izumi
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Re: Article: "Is Aikido a Martial Art?"

Quote:
Keith Krajewski wrote:
Dibbs on "chicken chaser."
That is getting too close to the idea of "choking the chicken."

Rock
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Old 12-23-2004, 02:15 PM   #75
mjchip
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Re: Article: "Is Aikido a Martial Art?"

Quote:
Hiroaki Izumi wrote:
That is getting too close to the idea of "choking the chicken."

Rock
...and why would one bother "choking the chicken" if one could hit it with a bokuto.

Mark Chiappetta
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