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Old 11-27-2004, 11:09 PM   #1
chrisward
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In other's opinion....

I want to make clear first and foremost that I have absolute confidence and believe that Aikido is a complete system of self defense. However, my question is this, IF and only IF, one was to explore another art in regard to learning some striking techniques exclusively for the purpose to compliment their Aikido, I am interested in hearing from those of you out there who may have an opinion on which direction you would suggest? I know there are plenty of striking arts out there. I am just interested in hearing from those of you who have been involved with Aikido for awhile to see what you'd suggest.
Regards,
Chris
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Old 11-28-2004, 01:52 AM   #2
Kalle Koskinen
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Re: In other's opinion....

Boxing.
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Old 11-28-2004, 10:08 AM   #3
MaryKaye
Dojo: Seattle Ki Society
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Re: In other's opinion....

Several of my teachers cross-train in karate, and one Seattle sensei teaches alternate classes (to mostly the same student pool) in ki-aikido and karate. It seems very hard to learn both at once, though.

I got to train with a boxing student who was sampling aikido for a few months; he taught me a number of extremely useful things about not only atemi, but ma'ai, movement, and how to look at your partner. It was quite interesting having a no-rank beginner correcting us on these topics, especially since he was almost always right.

Mary Kaye
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Old 11-28-2004, 10:35 AM   #4
bob_stra
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Re: In other's opinion....

BKB - bare knuckle boxing (preferebly the real, WMA, european thing. I understand Savate still has elements of this)

http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showth...ht=kirk+lawson

WT as a second possibility, though I dislike their stances, movement etc.

Last edited by bob_stra : 11-28-2004 at 10:40 AM.
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Old 11-28-2004, 10:53 AM   #5
L. Camejo
 
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Re: In other's opinion....

Personally I've found Wing Chun and Jeet Kun Do to blend nicely with my Aikido training. I tend to prefer the low kicks as well. Some Tai Chi Chin Na also helps for the targeting of atemi waza imho.

Just from personal experience.

LC

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
http://www.tntaikido.org
http://www.mushinkan.ca
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Old 11-28-2004, 12:29 PM   #6
SeiserL
 
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Re: In other's opinion....

IMHO, FMA/JKD.

Last edited by SeiserL : 11-28-2004 at 12:37 PM.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 11-28-2004, 03:27 PM   #7
Bronson
 
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Re: In other's opinion....

Nyuk-nyuk ryu, originated by renowned fighting master Cur-li Howard. Master Cur-li is known for his distinctive and impressive kiai and his system is known for eye jabs, slaps, a wide variety of punches, and an impressive array of improvised weapons.

Check here for training videos.

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
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Old 11-28-2004, 05:52 PM   #8
Larry Feldman
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Re: In other's opinion....

On the 'softer side' Tai Chi
On the 'harder' side Ju Jitsu

But it really comes down to what you have access to - what you have to choose from, and personal preferences.
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Old 11-29-2004, 07:58 AM   #9
csinca
 
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Re: In other's opinion....

I think Larry is on the right track. It depends on what is available to you. We are all going to have favorite styles based on our experience with them. A good instructor is going to be able to give you what you are looking for regardless of the style.

From a strict style perspective, I wish I had been exposed to JKD/FMA training years ago.

Chris
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Old 11-29-2004, 08:15 AM   #10
Dominic Toupin
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Re: In other's opinion....

I'm training in aikido, ju-jutsu and karate at the same time right now and I will say that those three are very complementary. In fact, my aikido is like a soft ju-jutsu and my ju-jutsu is like a hard aikido But the striking techniques (especially low kicks) are very important to learn. Like the others, I will say that Boxing and kick-boxing can be useful even taekwon-do for the kicks.

It's my opinion, but every aikidoka should know basics Geri waza. In aikido, kick attack and defense are not enough present
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Old 11-29-2004, 09:09 AM   #11
ian
 
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Re: In other's opinion....

Boxing is not a self-defence. You wear big padded gloves on your hands and you can't strike below the belt. Good for fitness. Bare-knuckel boxing or Savate I would say is a great idea.

Personally I would recommend a style of kungfu. They still incorporate elements of blending, yet there is more striking involved.

I wouldn't bother with Ju-jitsu too much unless they tend to blend - it will develop bad habits for your aikido and may be very frustrating. Go to another martial art to learn specific things (IMO ju-jitsu is either just like aikido, or is a much poorer 'version' of aikido)

Personally I would recommend going to a striking art that incorporates pressurepoints (and maybe a few kicks), and learn how to kick and strike effectively. Then give it up and do more aikido training (kicks and strikes can be practised alone, aikido never can).
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Old 11-29-2004, 09:21 AM   #12
Dominic Toupin
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Re: In other's opinion....

[quote=Ian Dodkins] IMO ju-jitsu is either just like aikido, or is a much poorer 'version' of aikido.

You are not right on that one. Ju-Jutsu is not a much poorer "version" of aikido. In facts it's a different approach with the same technique. It's very complementary to aikido because of the use of good sticking technique.

I'm a better aikidoka because of ju-jutsu and vice versa
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Old 11-29-2004, 10:08 AM   #13
Mark Balogh
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Re: In other's opinion....

Daito Ryu Aiki Ju Jutsu definitely, Bagua maybe.
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Old 11-30-2004, 12:25 PM   #14
Brian Scott
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Re: In other's opinion....

From personal experience, most other styles will eventually work with aikido, however, this process will generally take a long long time to be fully integrated. I studied full contact karate for ten years before starting aikido. It seemed like it took most of my innitial three of aikido years to unlearn habits aquired in karate that did not work well for aikido. Now after 14 years of aikido, things feel integrated, but I really never think about having those type of skills, I just practice regular old aikido and love it. I think part of this difficulty in integration was that my karate skills were far from what a trully "developed" karateka would have. So in other words, trying to integrate by dabbleing in other arts is a noble theory, but in practice it takes just as long to aquire real developement in other arts as it does in aikido.

It is nice to know a few kicks and whatever, but most people I have trained with who believe they have some skills from other arts are actually fooling themselves. I am a firm believer in long term dilligent, focused study under a good teacher. Anything else is really just a distraction.

P.S. Hi Jun, hope to see you soon,

sincerely, Brian from Mt. Tam dojo
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Old 11-30-2004, 01:10 PM   #15
Dominic Toupin
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Re: In other's opinion....

Mr. Scott,

Are you telling me that training in three martial arts in one time is not good for me that I fooling myself integrated ju-jutsu and karate in aikido ? I think that you don't get it! I'm definitely better in aikido because of my background in karate and my training in ju-jutsu. If you are curious, look at http://www.yoseikan.asso.fr/doc/martial.php
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Old 11-30-2004, 02:49 PM   #16
Nick P.
 
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Re: In other's opinion....

Quote:
Dominic Toupin wrote:
Mr. Scott,

Are you telling me that training in three martial arts in one time is not good for me that I fooling myself integrated ju-jutsu and karate in aikido ? I think that you don't get it! I'm definitely better in aikido because of my background in karate and my training in ju-jutsu. If you are curious, look at http://www.yoseikan.asso.fr/doc/martial.php
Dominic,

I think that all previous entries somehwere said "in my opinion"; it's like arguing that I like the color red. You may think I am crazy or an idiot, but the fact remains it is my opinion (like certain body parts, opionions are something that everyone has one of).

From the link...
"Cela la rend accessible tous, quel que soit l?ge ou le handicap, laissant chacun le choix de sa pratique." = Making (Yoseikan Budo) it accessible to all, regardless of age or handicap, leaving each the choice of what to practice.

The key word there is choice. Choose whatever suits you (and if it's everything, then it is everything). Nowhere on the site did I find a reference to "To be complete, you must practice it all".

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Old 11-30-2004, 03:38 PM   #17
Rocky Izumi
Dojo: GUST Aikido Club
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Re: In other's opinion....

Quote:
Ian Dodkins wrote:
Personally I would recommend going to a striking art that incorporates pressurepoints (and maybe a few kicks), and learn how to kick and strike effectively. Then give it up and do more aikido training (kicks and strikes can be practised alone, aikido never can).
And I personally prefer a few Guinness Furikaburi that gets me in the spirit for a good Irish (Liverpudlian, if you are British) Kiss to the nose. I can practice that after the Aikido workout and it doesn't take away from my Aikido practice but only enhances it.

Just for you Ian!

Cheers!
Rock
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Old 11-30-2004, 05:42 PM   #18
Brian Scott
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Re: In other's opinion....

Quote:
Dominic Toupin wrote:
Mr. Scott,

Are you telling me that training in three martial arts in one time is not good for me that I fooling myself integrated ju-jutsu and karate in aikido ? I think that you don't get it! I'm definitely better in aikido because of my background in karate and my training in ju-jutsu. If you are curious, look at http://www.yoseikan.asso.fr/doc/martial.php
Dominic, I didn't say you are fooling youself, and please don't take my opinion personally. Nice website on your dojo. It looks fun.

My opinion is only my own, but it is based on over twenty years experience in japanese martial arts. I study aikido exclusively now because my time is limited because of my profession, and my family. Also, I study aikido exclusively because even after 14 years of aikido I still have so much to learn that I feel anything else would just distract me and limit my true growth in this wonderful art. People grow in different ways though, so more power to you if you are getting what you need.

Good luck and train hard

Brian
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Old 12-15-2004, 11:29 AM   #19
Robert Cheshire
 
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Re: In other's opinion....

Quote:
Nick Pittson wrote:
From the link...
"Cela la rend accessible tous, quel que soit l?ge ou le handicap, laissant chacun le choix de sa pratique." = Making (Yoseikan Budo) it accessible to all, regardless of age or handicap, leaving each the choice of what to practice.

The key word there is choice. Choose whatever suits you (and if it's everything, then it is everything). Nowhere on the site did I find a reference to "To be complete, you must practice it all".
Nick - you have described exactly what the Mochizuki family says about training in Yoseikan Budo. You can learn parts or the whole thing. Hiroo Mochizuki states that Yoseikan should be a life long learning experience. Even with that he does not say or expect everyone to learn the complete style.

Dominic - I'm like you in the fact that I like it all and want to learn it all!


Robert Cheshire
Yoseikan Budo/Aikido
www.yoseikanbudo.us
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Old 12-15-2004, 12:19 PM   #20
Michael Neal
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Re: In other's opinion....

Judo
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Old 12-15-2004, 03:55 PM   #21
spinecracker
 
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Re: In other's opinion....

I have done some training in various martial arts (Aikido, wado ryu karate, judo, tai chi, etc), and I found that I improved my aikido by sparring with karate students, judo students, etc. It is very humbling to be applying what you think is a good kote gaeshi when the other guy grabs your legs and sits you on your butt. It definitely helped with distance and timing, and it was an opportunity to appreciate the finer aspects of other martial arts (especially when my sparring partner was kind enough to remove his foot from my groin......). The main aspect, for me at least, is that the sneaky beggars will attack in all kinds of ways, giving me an opportunity to see how wonderfully aiki techniques are able to adapt to more than just basic attacks. Of course, I do spend some time having to pick my teeth up off the floor
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Old 12-15-2004, 04:10 PM   #22
Rocky Izumi
Dojo: GUST Aikido Club
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Re: In other's opinion....

Hey, no one mentioned Kendo here so I will. Kendo rocks! Or is that Rock Kendos? Uh. Punch drunk again. Missed the rum with El Frente Cubatero this afternoon.

Rock
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Old 12-15-2004, 04:44 PM   #23
kironin
 
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Re: In other's opinion....

how about Kendo just hurts.

unless you are an 8th dan.

I prefer iaido.

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Old 12-15-2004, 05:23 PM   #24
Keith_k
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Re: In other's opinion....

IMHO
I would say a good ground fighting art (Judo, BJJ, or even wrestling) would be the best compliment to aikido because it covers that area that aikido is lacking in.
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Old 12-15-2004, 07:10 PM   #25
Chris Raywood
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Re: In other's opinion....

Chris,

You may want to take a look at what O'Sensei was working on during the 1930's and 40's known as Aiki Budo. I have not done any study whatsoever, and therefore not an authority. However, there may be some variations to your current study that are worth looking into.

Good Luck!

Chris

PS Definitely agree with Mark Balogh on Daito Ryu. Absolutely devastating!
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