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Old 04-01-2001, 01:50 PM   #1
jfearon
Dojo: Richmond Dojo
Location: Richmond, North Yorkshire, England
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 10
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Cool

Just a quick question Does everybody have a YONKYO point. In the Dojo I train at, one of the students does not seem to have a Yonkyo point, our Sensei can not even find it. Also why is Yonkyo so painful. Is there any other pressure points that are so painfull.

Jamie Fearon
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Old 04-01-2001, 04:19 PM   #2
joan
Dojo: Michigan Technological University
Location: Houghton MI
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 27
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Are you talking about the radial nerve? Everyone has one, but some are much more accessible than others--due to musculature, fat distribution, and physiological variations. In our dojo we aim to achieve uke's center, and getting the nerve in addition is gravy. You can control uke with the pin without getting that particular point, tho it is fun to watch people wince.
Joan
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Old 04-01-2001, 04:24 PM   #3
guest1234
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 915
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yonkyo is painful because pressure is applied to a nerve overlying a bone in the forearm. there are lots of pressure points in the body, but in my beginner's opinion, they all are 'a little something extra' and should not be a focus point of your technique---based instead on the MD behind my name and the fact that i'm one of those folks instructors come to with an evil grin when my nage complains i lack the pressure point. Not everyone's body has read the textbooks, i tell my patients. Those who don't feel the pain that i see in the faces of my colleagues may have the nerve buried, or in a deeper place, or even an entirely new location, or they may have a high pain threshold (their body for a variety of reasons doesn't recognize pain in general as most do), or be on drugs, or last, and most dangerous, may be willing to suck up a lot of pain to accomplish their goal.
in th opinion of someone who can stand there literally for minutes with my hand poised to punch a nage intent on inflicting pain, go for the balance instead.

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Old 04-02-2001, 10:42 AM   #4
jimbaker
Dojo: Aikido of Norfolk/ Aikido Society of Memphis
Location: Norfolk, VA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 150
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The pain of yonkyo is usually caused by the compression of periostium, the nerve-rich membrane surrounding the bones. Yonkyo twists the two arm (or leg) bones until their periostia are compressed together causing major ouchness.

There are people who, for whatever reason, don't respond to this kind of pain, which is why you line up yonkyo in such a way as to be able to move their skeletal system.

It is not a pressure point. The pain shows up wherever the periostia (not sure of the latin plural here) hit each other, which is slightly different in each person, according to their bone length and muscle size.

Greg Owens (sp?) did a series of articles on the physiological basis of Ikkyo through Yonkyo.

Jim Baker

Quote:
ca wrote:
yonkyo is painful because pressure is applied to a nerve overlying a bone in the forearm. there are lots of pressure points in the body, but in my beginner's opinion, they all are 'a little something extra' and should not be a focus point of your technique---based instead on the MD behind my name and the fact that i'm one of those folks instructors come to with an evil grin when my nage complains i lack the pressure point. Not everyone's body has read the textbooks, i tell my patients. Those who don't feel the pain that i see in the faces of my colleagues may have the nerve buried, or in a deeper place, or even an entirely new location, or they may have a high pain threshold (their body for a variety of reasons doesn't recognize pain in general as most do), or be on drugs, or last, and most dangerous, may be willing to suck up a lot of pain to accomplish their goal.
in th opinion of someone who can stand there literally for minutes with my hand poised to punch a nage intent on inflicting pain, go for the balance instead.

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Old 04-02-2001, 01:32 PM   #5
CraigJamieson
Dojo: Ki Federation of GB
Location: East Kilbride, Scotland
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 10
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hey all!
In my style-ki aikido- we dont practice yonkyo with the pressure point, just with the down and out motion.Its just a physical thing that on some people(like me haha!)the radial nerve isnt as accessible.
Happy yonkyos to all
Craig,scotland
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Old 04-02-2001, 03:41 PM   #6
guest1234
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 915
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i'd be interested in knowing where the studies of yonkyo as periosteal pain can be found...if that were the case, then pressure anywhere on bones of sensitive individuals would cause the same pain, and i'm told the feelings are distinctly different...and since one most often pointed to area of pain is where, as others have said, the radial nerve usually passes, i'd like to see what those articles have to say.
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Old 04-02-2001, 05:26 PM   #7
mj
Location: livingston, scotland
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 715
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When I read the thread on the homepage... 'Does everyone have a YONKYO p....

...I thought it was p... problem
)Spot the beginner!)

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Old 04-02-2001, 10:18 PM   #8
jimbaker
Dojo: Aikido of Norfolk/ Aikido Society of Memphis
Location: Norfolk, VA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 150
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Quote:
ca wrote:
i'd be interested in knowing where the studies of yonkyo as periosteal pain can be found...if that were the case, then pressure anywhere on bones of sensitive individuals would cause the same pain, and i'm told the feelings are distinctly different...and since one most often pointed to area of pain is where, as others have said, the radial nerve usually passes, i'd like to see what those articles have to say.
Dr. Greg Olson did the series in "Perceptual & Motor Skills" (71(3 Pt 2):1059-66, 1990 Dec. for the yonkyo)

Eckert and Lee did a follow-up on nikyo, where they discuss the periosteal pain. (same journal, Dec 1993.

My wife's the Doc, anatomy professor, and Medical Examiner; she tends towards the periostial pain side of the argument.

Jim Baker
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