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Old 06-06-2004, 11:01 AM   #1
Gilles D'Hoker
 
Gilles D'Hoker's Avatar
Dojo: Brugse Aikido Vereniging
Location: Brugge
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 20
Belgium
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Freaky! Differences in Europe?

Last month I visited New York and attended an Aikido class in the New York Aikikai. I noticed a few differences between the class in NYC and in Belgium, where I live. For instance;
The warm ups didn't contain breathing techniques, no rolls or any fall's, just a few stretches. The warm up lasted only a few minutes, should be longer though, or not?
And...nobody calls out the name of the techniques... The sensei showed how and we try-ed to do the same. Don't you people in America use names?
Last... For one lesson I payed 10$, here in Belgium one lesson is 0. And a year fee is 1.400$ !!!! I payed our class only 160 that's about 150$ a year! Can someone explain why the classes a that expensive or are all classes in the U.S.A. that expensive?

Thanks 4 reading.
Gilles
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Old 06-06-2004, 11:41 AM   #2
tedehara
 
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Dojo: Evanston Ki-Aikido
Location: Evanston IL
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 826
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Re: Differences?

You got off cheap. Mat fees (cost for one class) around Chicago are as high as $20 USD. Membership fees vary from school to school. On the high end, $150 will pay for your first month's training with initial fees.

Normally when a technique is demonstrated, the instructor will mention the name, however that varies from teacher to teacher.

Certainly more time should be spent on warming-up. Since most people are there just to learn technique, the focus is on that and a low priority is given to everything else. A way to overcome this is to show up early and begin to warm-up by yourself.

It is not practice that makes perfect, it is correct practice that makes perfect.
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Old 06-06-2004, 01:00 PM   #3
bcole23
Dojo: Eagle Rock Aikido, Ammon, ID
Location: Ammon, ID
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 120
United_States
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Re: Differences in Europe?

Your experience is, from my experience, definitely not the norm.

Our class warmups are 30-40 minutes. Then normally 100 rolls. Every other class we do weapons work after that. Though we don't call out the name of a technique every time we perform it, we are told which technique it is when shown to us.

Also, we don't have mat fees for visitors (college class and all) but normally it's only a buck or two at other dojos I've visited and is not mandatory. Our fees are @$25 a month.

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Old 06-06-2004, 06:16 PM   #4
Greg Jennings
Dojo: None at the moment.
Location: Springboro, OH
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,083
United_States
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Re: Differences in Europe?

Gilles...don't you think that generalizing one class at one dojo in one city (admittedly the largest) in one state to the whole big, honking USA (Belgium is smaller than 41 of our states) is a bit of a reach?

Regards,

Greg Jennings
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Old 06-06-2004, 08:49 PM   #5
Noel
Location: Rochester, NY
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 86
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Re: Differences in Europe?

Gilles-

Couple, few things. First, NY Aikikai has Yamada. Second, it's New York City, nothing is cheap. Third, if you don't know the name of the technique, why not ask your partner while practicing?

Ten bucks for a mat fee is on the low side in the northeastern US, in my experience. Aikikai dues seem higher than most other organizations here, too. $1400 is a lot, but you're in NYC with one of the original deshi running things. Out here in the sticks, you'd be looking at roughly $850 to $950 a year for a good Aikikai place. Other groups around here are less, maybe half that plus or minus. (About what you'd pay for a gym membership)

My cent-and-a-half,
-Noel
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Old 06-07-2004, 03:32 AM   #6
markwalsh
Dojo: Airenjuku Brighton
Location: On the road - UK
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 515
United Nations
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Re: Differences in Europe?

There are wide differences across Europe too, in both warm up and cost. In Britain alone I have paid between 1 (1.5E) and 10 for a class, and there is one 20 one I hear. The professional dojos tend to charge more, -which is fair enough as the teacher is trying to earn a living. There aren't very many of these in most of Europe however (e.g. 3 in Britain, 1 in Ireland). Government funding may also be an issue, I believe the dojos in France are subsidised (info please)? Is the public sector involved Belgium?

Warm ups depend on the teacher more than the country I would think.

Mark
x
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Old 06-07-2004, 06:57 AM   #7
kocakb
Dojo: Burhan Felek Sport Center-Istanbul
Location: Istanbul
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 110
Turkey
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Re: Differences in Europe?

unfortunately, I have never had a chance to join a different dojo, neither in my country nor abroad.. at my dojo in Istanbul, the warm-up lasts about 25 minutes. It includes stretching, fallings and sometimes kokyu-ho...and before we try to perform a technique, our sensei says the name of the technique. What's more, he shows us different variations of the technique. The dojo belongs to the greater municipality of Istanbul, therefore we pay 6 $ per month (train 3 times per week, 2 hours per training) ...(private dojo's costs about 100$ per month)...
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Old 06-07-2004, 07:41 AM   #8
MaryKaye
Dojo: Seattle Ki Society
Location: Seattle
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 522
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Re: Differences in Europe?

It's not US vs. Europe; the two dojo where I've trained, a couple of miles apart in Seattle, have extremely different warmup styles, teaching styles, technique names....

For the dojo I've looked at in Seattle, fees are generally monthly and run $65-$85. In my limited experience West Coast dojo have minimal or no mat fees for visitors. Maui Ki Society charged $5/week and the other places just shrugged and said "You'll only be here once? Never mind fees."

Different parts of the US might as well be different countries, though, especially in terms of what things cost. My colleagues in rural New York pay their programmers about 1/3 what I pay mine in Seattle, and have an easier time hiring than I do.

Mary Kaye
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Old 06-07-2004, 07:52 AM   #9
Greg Jennings
Dojo: None at the moment.
Location: Springboro, OH
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,083
United_States
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Re: Differences in Europe?

We have an unusual situation that allows us to charge no tuition, mat fees, etc.

Best regards,

Greg Jennings
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Old 06-07-2004, 11:19 AM   #10
markwalsh
Dojo: Airenjuku Brighton
Location: On the road - UK
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 515
United Nations
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Re: Differences in Europe?

No fees? Cool. Is the "unusual situation" that you are all in the Mafia?

Any takers on the most expensive class attended? The bidding starts at $20.
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Old 06-07-2004, 01:17 PM   #11
Greg Jennings
Dojo: None at the moment.
Location: Springboro, OH
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,083
United_States
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Re: Differences in Europe?

Mark,

The dojo was given space by my former instructor's/mentor's church. The original idea was to provide a service to the church and then to the broader community, but the church members have largely never been interested. Thus, it's been a service to the broader community.

Once in awhile the membership will want to do something that requires money. When that happens, we take up a voluntary donation. Other than that, there is no money involved.

It makes me nervous to operate with no cash flow and very little nest egg, but it's worked so far.

Regards,

Greg Jennings
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Old 11-09-2004, 03:00 PM   #12
cck
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 59
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Re: Differences in Europe?

Hi Giles -

I lived and practised in Denmark, where most sports are subsidized by government (usually Lotto or other betting funds). Welcome to the land of small government...

Camilla
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