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Old 01-20-2005, 09:44 PM   #51
AikiRooster
 
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Thumbs up Re: Aikido vs. druggies and drunks

Mike:

Thank you. I understand completely with you disagreeing with the things I'm saying. I disagree with them too. However, in the system I am in, the put the responsibilty on my shoulders as an Instructor and they will not back me if I teach something other then what they autrhorized me to teach in DT certification. Yes, I have Dan rank, more then one even, but the Fed's are very anal about policy, and the FLETC policy is absolutely no choke holds at all being taught to the officers. No, I don't agree with that. The personal policy I've adopted is for my friends, when I trust them I might teach them things that are more similar to what we might call chokes. I don't teach it to the officer's because I am strictly forbidden to. However, I don't like that terminnology because they also like to say how a cop can only use that in the Federal system if he was in a fight for his life scenario. Well, I always then ask, how is that officer suppose to fight for his life if I am not allowed to teach him how in the first place? Maybe you can get away with teaching it easier then me, but for me, if I were caught teaching any of the cops that I have been warned that my Instructor status would imeediately cease.
City, County and State cops have it a little easier getting away with it then we Feds do I guess. Hope you understand better now. Don't hate the messenger. Just sharing with you Mike.
Any comments/suggestions?

Some folks are truly alive only because it's against the law to kill them. . .
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Old 01-20-2005, 09:56 PM   #52
Michael Hackett
Dojo: Kenshinkan Dojo (Aikido of North County) Vista, CA
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Re: Aikido vs. druggies and drunks

Dear Tim:

First of all, please don't mistake my disagreement for dislike. Your agency has set a policy and you have to obey it and even support it. I've been in that position too. If they tell you not to teach something, you have little choice, but to obey, quit your job, or convince them they are wrong. I respect your position and I would respect any of those three choices. I would be flamed if you went off and taught something proscribed anyway - in fact you'd probably be looking for a new home.

What galls me in our business is the attitude that we as administrators should treat our officers as if they were children. I've seen it a few times too many over the years and it has always offended me from a leadership perspective. Our employees are not children; they are responsible adult men and women and should be treated as such. Set rules, but set them rationally. Train people on the rules. Inspect their performance to the rules. Enforce the rules when necessary.

Rant over. I'll get off my soapbox now.

Michael
"Leave the gun. Bring the cannoli."
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Old 01-20-2005, 10:18 PM   #53
AikiRooster
 
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Re: Aikido vs. druggies and drunks

Mike:


10-4, Thanks again.

Yes, the Fed policy sucks bananas. The problem is not so much convincing the command of the need, most of them if not all of them agree with me. The problem is getting things chnaged in the Fed's almost takes an act of congress and not many are willing make noise that high for something that might seem trivial to them, especially since most of them sit in a warm, cozy office most of the days. Plus, money, manpower, liability all of that crap is incredibly screwed up in the Fed system.

That's what I meant what I was saying seeing my friends in a combat type of situation and seeing they don't freak, panic whatever, then I might teach them some other techniques in private just in case they find themselves in those oh s--t situations. I think all cops should be taught the choking techniques as well as wake up the badguy techniques, first aid and a couple of other things. Speaking of first aid, I think all cops should be certified EMT's as well since we seem to be first responders, literally. Often times we are there way before paramedics show up. Not to mention the fact that if our partner or another brother in blue gets severely damaged, I wonna be able to ease some of the pain before the medics finally get there.

Some folks are truly alive only because it's against the law to kill them. . .
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Old 01-21-2005, 06:39 AM   #54
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Wink Re: Aikido vs. druggies and drunks

Quote:
Timothy Nelson wrote:
Mike:


10-4, Thanks again.

Yes, the Fed policy sucks bananas. The problem is not so much convincing the command of the need, most of them if not all of them agree with me. The problem is getting things chnaged in the Fed's almost takes an act of congress and not many are willing make noise that high for something that might seem trivial to them, especially since most of them sit in a warm, cozy office most of the days. Plus, money, manpower, liability all of that crap is incredibly screwed up in the Fed system.

That's what I meant what I was saying seeing my friends in a combat type of situation and seeing they don't freak, panic whatever, then I might teach them some other techniques in private just in case they find themselves in those oh s--t situations. I think all cops should be taught the choking techniques as well as wake up the bad guy techniques, first aid and a couple of other things. Speaking of first aid, I think all cops should be certified EMT's as well since we seem to be first responders, literally. Often times we are there way before paramedics show up. Not to mention the fact that if our partner or another brother in blue gets severely damaged, I wonna be able to ease some of the pain before the medics finally get there.
Tim,
Good points. I am a DT instructor in MA. We also are not allowed to teach choking techniques. When my Sensei trains my SWAT team, he teaches us how to "ESCAPE" from the choke.
But to train this, he first shows the cop playing the the bad guy roll how to properly choke some one. Then we all practice how to escape from chokes.....Get what I'm saying?
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Old 01-21-2005, 09:56 PM   #55
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Re: Aikido vs. druggies and drunks

Eric:


We too practice the chokes and the reviving techniques for helping those choked out. In the dojo of course we do that. For the life of me I cannot figure out why cops are not to be taught that. With what both of us said here, I am sure we can find alot of Master's/Sensei's that teach what we're discussing. Unfortunately, the Master's/Sensei's don't have the ability nor often times even the know how to background checks on the people they are teaching. So, with the strong possibility that a bad person is learning this stuff, that alone ought to be enough justification for cops learning chokes both offensively/defensively as well as the first aid afterwards, like reviving techniques, etc. Nothing should be off limits to a cops arsenol to protect himself or another in danger. Instead, it ought o be taught in law class that it should only be used as a last resort, for example, an officer is in a grappling situation witha suspect and cannot utilize nothing else becuase he/she cannot get to those tools or the opportunity is not present, to me that would be justification right there for an officer to utilize choking techniques, especially if the cop does not get the upper hand quick, others will be in danger. I think the law does more to protect the criminals then the cops or the victims. Often times, it seems in this society [Unites States], the cop is better off being a statistic rather then saving his or anyone else's life. Very frustrating!
Thanks for your reply Eric and God Bless. Stay safe.

Some folks are truly alive only because it's against the law to kill them. . .
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Old 01-23-2005, 06:12 PM   #56
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Re: Aikido vs. druggies and drunks

Quote:
Timothy Nelson wrote:
Eric:


We too practice the chokes and the reviving techniques for helping those choked out. In the dojo of course we do that. For the life of me I cannot figure out why cops are not to be taught that. With what both of us said here, I am sure we can find alot of Master's/Sensei's that teach what we're discussing. Unfortunately, the Master's/Sensei's don't have the ability nor often times even the know how to background checks on the people they are teaching. So, with the strong possibility that a bad person is learning this stuff, that alone ought to be enough justification for cops learning chokes both offensively/defensively as well as the first aid afterwards, like reviving techniques, etc. Nothing should be off limits to a cops arsenol to protect himself or another in danger. Instead, it ought o be taught in law class that it should only be used as a last resort, for example, an officer is in a grappling situation witha suspect and cannot utilize nothing else becuase he/she cannot get to those tools or the opportunity is not present, to me that would be justification right there for an officer to utilize choking techniques, especially if the cop does not get the upper hand quick, others will be in danger. I think the law does more to protect the criminals then the cops or the victims. Often times, it seems in this society [Unites States], the cop is better off being a statistic rather then saving his or anyone else's life. Very frustrating!
Thanks for your reply Eric and God Bless. Stay safe.
it may be hard for me not knowing first hand the legality for when to use it ,but if you can have a rule about the use of lethal force with a gun you should have a rule for a choke. if properly executed a choke need not render the person completely unconscious to be effective and in some cases it would be justifialble to put them out .but training in it should be seriously scrutinized and certified .treat it as a gun .what the expert could do the beginner could mess up .but to penalize an officer for using it justifiably so is not right.jmo
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Old 02-08-2005, 10:10 PM   #57
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Re: Aikido vs. druggies and drunks

Quote:
Christian Boddum wrote:
Hi !

For every one beer you drink you loose a belt -

after 3 beers youŽd better not get in trouble .

just my thoughts -

yours - Chr.B.

Hmmm I now have a new goal...

I'll work my whole life and get to jyudan for the sole purpose of being able to chug 12 beers and still be able to pull off some decent throws. My new philosophy is that the next step after aikido is alkido.

-Drew
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