Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-29-2004, 02:21 PM   #1
Anat Amitay
Dojo: Nes- Ziona, "the red house"
Location: Israel
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 137
Israel
Offline
Blind Aikidoka

I was wondering,
Has anyone ever trained with a blind aikidoka? Does anyone know of a blind person training in Aikido?
I know of a blind boy training in Judo (well, now he's probably a highschool student), but I was wondering about Aikido.
Thanks for any information,
Anat
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2004, 03:03 PM   #2
Janet Rosen
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Janet Rosen's Avatar
Location: Left Coast
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 3,927
Offline
Re: Blind Aikidoka

Not long term, but I've trained at seminars or while visiting places w/ 2 different folks who are blind. both very enjoyable experiences.
Main thing with each of them was that I had to be very clear, in either role nage or uke, about staying "sticky" in physical contact or my partner would have to come "looking for me" which meant some potentially nasty atemi! and it is incumbent on the sighted partner to ensure clear paths for the blind partner esp for ukemi.
Don't know if it is coincidental but both ended up training longer term not in aikido but in aiki-jitsu of one or another form, where there is more pinning and control, less throwing into space.

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2004, 06:12 PM   #3
Jeanne Shepard
 
Jeanne Shepard's Avatar
Dojo: Puget Sound Aikikai
Location: Seattle
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 351
Offline
Re: Blind Aikidoka

I trained, ocasionally, with a woman who was blind, and thought she was quite good. She earned her shodan, but unfortunately passed away recently from cancer.

Jeanne
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2004, 09:33 PM   #4
Michael Young
 
Michael Young's Avatar
Dojo: Alamo City Aikido
Location: San Antonio, TX
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 133
Offline
Re: Blind Aikidoka

Here is something I posted in another thread about looking in your opponent's eyes or not here:http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showth...4505#post74505

I'll just copy and paste it:

Quote:
While visiting Hikitsuchi Sensei's dojo in Shingu, Japan in 1998, I had the opportunity to train with a blind Aikido practioner. I think his rank was 3rd or 4th dan. During one class, the attack shown was tsuki (punch to the midsection), and I was partnered with the blind gentleman. At first I was timid about attacking him at the normal speed, but he communicated to me (mostly through gestures, he spoke no English and my Japanese was pretty bad) that he wanted me to attack full speed. I figured "O.K. you asked for it" and went ahead and punched at the normal pace, and immediately found myself flat on the mat as usual . It was a completely amazing experience. This guy could sense my timing, spacing, and intent without being able to see. He obviously doesn't have to worry about where to place his vision...of course, the rest of us are handicapped with the problem though .
Quote:
Another interesting story involving the same person... He was a masseuse by profession. During class one of my fellow American friends, who was also practicing, hurt his toe by catching it in between the tatami mats. After class was over, the blind masseuse came over to my friend and pointed down towards his foot. No one had told him that my friend had hurt himself, and they were not practicing together at the time the injury occured. The masseuse, of course, went right to the toe that was hurt without being told which one...he did his massage thing...and my friend stated that his toe felt much better after. FWIW cool story, maybe with a lesson or two about preconceptions and how we limit ourselves to just the visible world.
-Mike
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2004, 10:40 PM   #5
Atomicpenguin
Location: Tempe, Arizona
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 37
Offline
Re: Blind Aikidoka

I have. What do you want to know?
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2004, 01:44 AM   #6
batemanb
 
batemanb's Avatar
Dojo: Seibukan Aikido UK
Location: body in UK, heart still in Japan
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,029
Offline
Re: Blind Aikidoka

Used to have a blind chap in our dojo years ago. The club split some time ago and I haven't seen him since I went off to Japan a few years back, I don't know if he still practices. It was great training with him, I think he got up to about 4th kyu before I went. Hi Derek (if your reading), what became of Doug?


rgds

A difficult problem is easily solved by asking yourself the question, "Just how would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2004, 03:47 AM   #7
markwalsh
Dojo: Airenjuku Brighton
Location: On the road - UK
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 515
United Nations
Offline
Re: Blind Aikidoka

There is at least one blind dan grade in the UK whobI trained with once. There is also a blind Judo society.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2004, 02:44 PM   #8
senseimike
 
senseimike's Avatar
Dojo: Rising Star Aikido
Location: South Bend, Nebraska
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 81
United_States
Offline
Re: Blind Aikidoka

I used to have a student that was blind. He was an excelent martial artist and held black belts in 2 other arts(a grappling art that was affiliated with Gene LaBelle, and a form of wing chung). He lost his sight at around age 28 and started training after that. It was a pleasure to have him in class, learned a lot from him.

Mike Taylor
Godan
Chief Instructor, Rising Star Aikido
South Bend, Nebraska, USA
www.risingstaraikido.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2004, 06:56 PM   #9
Lyle Laizure
 
Lyle Laizure's Avatar
Dojo: Hinode Dojo LLC
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 560
United_States
Offline
Re: Blind Aikidoka

I am familiar with the fella that Mike is talking about. Definately a fun time.

Lyle Laizure
www.hinodedojo.com
Deru kugi wa uta reru
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2004, 12:00 PM   #10
Gareth Hinds
Dojo: Shobu Aikido of Boston
Location: Watertown, MA
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 28
Offline
Re: Blind Aikidoka

I met one at a seminar recently. She was still a beginner, and I didn't get to work with her, but later she asked me about visiting Shobu, and it was an interesting experience giving her directions. Makes you really think about what kind of non-visual cues you can use to navigate.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2004, 01:08 PM   #11
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
Offline
Re: Blind Aikidoka

Quote:
Michael Young wrote:
Here is something I posted in another thread about looking in your opponent's eyes or not here:http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showth...4505#post74505

I'll just copy and paste it:




-Mike
Was his name zatoichi? If so, watch out for his cane...

RT

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2004, 01:15 AM   #12
hopparn
Dojo: YMCA-YWCA Uppsala Aikido
Location: Uppsala
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 9
Sweden
Offline
Re: Blind Aikidoka

We have a blind aikidoka in our dojo, he has just reached 3:th kyu and he is very interesting to practice with
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2004, 03:29 AM   #13
Derek Webb
Dojo: MK Keihatsu & Phoenix Coventry
Location: Milton Keynes
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 17
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Blind Aikidoka

We used to have a guy who got to 4th kyu. Absolutely amazing. How he coped with ukemi I'll never fully understand. Trying them with my eyes closed lead to a few bad landings. His techniques from grabs was outstanding. From strikes we devised a way of letting him know where the strike would hit and the majority of times he coped admirally. On courses and at gradings most at first could not believe he was blind. Uking for him could get interesting when he used atemis. Sharpened up your reflexes!
Hi Bryan he moved to Wales about a year ago. Last I heard from him he was looking! to train with Gwyn Jones
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2014, 07:45 PM   #14
Sojourner
Location: Adelaide
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 80
Australia
Offline
Re: Blind Aikidoka

I have been pondering this question for a while, it does occur to me that Aikido could well be one of the most suitable martial arts for a blind person to use for self defense purposes. Sadly it is the elderly and people with obvious disabilities that are the most likely to be attacked by cowards in our society. Its also worth noting that the loss of one sense can increase your capacity in other senses.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2014, 12:44 PM   #15
Millsy
Dojo: AikiCenter(Aus)/SOMD Aikido(US)
Location: Maryland
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 91
United_States
Online
Re: Blind Aikidoka

My sensei, did some work with the guide dogs association teaching self defense to the blind. Here is a short article on it: http://geelong.starcommunity.com.au/...fence-skill-2/
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2014, 01:00 PM   #16
PeterR
 
PeterR's Avatar
Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,030
Japan
Offline
Re: Blind Aikidoka

Quote:
Ben White wrote: View Post
I have been pondering this question for a while, it does occur to me that Aikido could well be one of the most suitable martial arts for a blind person to use for self defense purposes. Sadly it is the elderly and people with obvious disabilities that are the most likely to be attacked by cowards in our society. Its also worth noting that the loss of one sense can increase your capacity in other senses.
I would disagree completely here seeing a huge difference between practicing (possible blind) and "most suitable for self defence". I may sound like a broken record (ie. the kid's thread) but I would go for Judo here too. Aikido needs incredible hand eye coordination whereas judo basically requires getting a good grip.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2014, 01:48 PM   #17
Millsy
Dojo: AikiCenter(Aus)/SOMD Aikido(US)
Location: Maryland
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 91
United_States
Online
Re: Blind Aikidoka

Quote:
Peter Rehse wrote: View Post
Aikido needs incredible hand eye coordination whereas judo basically requires getting a good grip.
Never thought of aikido needing incredible eye hand coordination. I can see where defence against strikes need timing to enter, but if somebody is grabbed I would think its by feel from then. Do you think you could apply nikyo with your eyes closed from katatedori?

Ever trained blind folded to grabs? It's an interesting exercise. Basically unless you're up against a five armed 3 headed beast from alpha centauri, its pretty much the same once your grabbed: the head is at the other end of the arm, the hips are below that and the feet below that again. Follow the arm up and you have got everything to play with.

But the question of what is "best for self defence" is a bigger one than can you do the art. I need to ponder that one more.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2014, 02:47 PM   #18
Sojourner
Location: Adelaide
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 80
Australia
Offline
Re: Blind Aikidoka

Quote:
Peter Rehse wrote: View Post
I would disagree completely here seeing a huge difference between practicing (possible blind) and "most suitable for self defence". I may sound like a broken record (ie. the kid's thread) but I would go for Judo here too. Aikido needs incredible hand eye coordination whereas judo basically requires getting a good grip.
Not sure I agree with you there, once an attacker has grabbed you, Aikido should give you the capacity to defend yourself accordingly. You may well give them more injuries because you cannot identify what is in your local surroundings and your attacker could be impaled on a fence post or similar as a result.

The other question that I would raise is would it be appropriate to expect that an Aikidoka could execute their techniques with the same capacity with a blindfold as opposed to to relying on sight in the dojo?
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2014, 03:22 PM   #19
PeterR
 
PeterR's Avatar
Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,030
Japan
Offline
Re: Blind Aikidoka

Well once an attacker has gotten hold of you - you are in judo's domain. Aikido is what you do while closing the distance - judo is what you do when you get there.

Good luck performing a kotegeishi or kotemawashi on an attacker who has got hold of you - both work best before a firm grip is established.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2014, 03:22 PM   #20
kivawolfspeaker
Dojo: Aikido of Madison
Location: Madison, Wiscosin
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 12
United_States
Offline
Re: Blind Aikidoka

A blind person's other senses will be heightened because they can not see. They might be keen to the "swish" a strike makes through the air as it comes towards them and use that to base their entry on.

"Die biting the throat." #12 of The Gnoll Credo
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2014, 03:33 PM   #21
PeterR
 
PeterR's Avatar
Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,030
Japan
Offline
Re: Blind Aikidoka

Quote:
Jen Wilcher wrote: View Post
A blind person's other senses will be heightened because they can not see. They might be keen to the "swish" a strike makes through the air as it comes towards them and use that to base their entry on.
You are joking right?

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2014, 03:43 PM   #22
ze'ev erlich
 
ze'ev erlich's Avatar
Dojo: Masatake Dojo (Israeli Aikido Organization)
Location: Rehovot - Israel
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 158
Israel
Offline
Re: Blind Aikidoka

Hello Anat,

I have experienced training and teaching blind people. My best friend in Japan is my dojo friend and he is blind. He holds now 2nd Dan in Aikido (Aikikai).

If you need help with many methods for training and any advice, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Ze'ev from Masatake Dojo Rehovot
www.aikikai.org.il
Israeli Aikido Organiziation (Aikikai)

  Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2014, 03:47 PM   #23
kivawolfspeaker
Dojo: Aikido of Madison
Location: Madison, Wiscosin
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 12
United_States
Offline
Re: Blind Aikidoka

No, actually I'm not and I've been around enough blind people defending themselves against nature that way (a tree branch falling). Yes, coordination of senses and body movement is required, but that doesn't mean it has to be sight. You have other senses, why not coordinate them?

"Die biting the throat." #12 of The Gnoll Credo
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2014, 11:31 PM   #24
ChrisHein
 
ChrisHein's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Fresno
Location: Fresno , CA
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,628
United_States
Offline
Re: Blind Aikidoka

I trained Daito Ryu with a blind fellow. He was awesomely powerful.

  Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2014, 11:24 AM   #25
jonreading
 
jonreading's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido South (formerly Emory Aikikai)
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 864
United_States
Offline
Re: Blind Aikidoka

I think there are several arts that accommodate training without one or more senses. I think aikido can accommodate training without vision and the methodology of instruction is flexible for unique teaching challenges.

I think the practicality of fighting without an ability or sense is suspect. Because of our teaching paradigm in aikido, we sometimes forget that initiating an attack is often an advantage. We also sometimes forget that we create deliberate contact with our partners so we can aikido each other. I think it is intimidating to imagine a self-defense situation with my full skills outside of the aikido paradigm.

I remember a study that found elderly were more at-risk to sustain a serious injury from falling than robbery. Elderly taking aikido and learning how to fall may be far more practical than using their aikido in an assault situation. Similarly, I think keeping focus on practical applications of aikido for the vision impaired is a better perspective... One of my old students who was legally blind had difficulty with depth perception. Just learning balanced walking in case he missed a step or caught his foot on a crack was a huge benefit to his daily life.

  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Teaching The Blind aikidodragon Teaching 7 12-23-2005 08:04 PM
Blind and doing Aikido. Yann Golanski General 12 04-27-2004 02:47 AM
Training a Blind Aikidoka? jducusin Training 10 03-18-2003 03:01 PM
blind aikidoka IrimiTom Training 9 08-20-2002 03:48 PM
Blind doing aikido Aikilove General 7 02-12-2001 06:40 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:51 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate