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Old 09-13-2004, 09:25 AM   #26
ruthmc
Dojo: Wokingham Aikido
Location: Reading, UK
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Re: Uncomfortable

Quote:
So I finally told my sensei about what was going on. He had a meeting with the other blackbelts and dicussed this issue. After sensei confronted the guy he of course he denied it. But my sensei knew better and the guy decided to quit. Thanx everybody for the advice and the support
That's fantastic news - very well done!

I'm very happy that it's all worked out for the best

Keep enjoying your training

Ruth
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Old 09-15-2004, 08:17 PM   #27
"anunymis"
IP Hash: 365cdf28
Anonymous User
Re: Uncomfortable

A few people have asked me if there's a chance this guy might bother me outside of class Now I'm kind of paranoid. I know I should be alert but now the slightest noise scares me. I'll hopefully get over it though. Before I scare myself to death.
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Old 09-15-2004, 08:23 PM   #28
Greg Jennings
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Re: Uncomfortable

Anonymous:

Did you think my reference to pepper spray was in the context of aikido class?

Be alert...and keep the pepper spray handy.

Best regards,

Greg Jennings
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Old 09-15-2004, 09:51 PM   #29
suren
Dojo: Aikido of Silicon Valley
Location: Fremont, CA
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Re: Uncomfortable

Quote:
A few people have asked me if there's a chance this guy might bother me outside of class Now I'm kind of paranoid. I know I should be alert but now the slightest noise scares me. I'll hopefully get over it though. Before I scare myself to death.
Dear Anonymous,

Try not to be paranoid about this, just for some time keep being alert, try not to be alone when you come and leave the dojo.

From his reaction I think he is pretty scared about the situation himself and want to run out of it.
Besides, if you think about it - your sensei knows who he is (name, address) and he also knows you had problem with that guy. He knows if something happens to you - he will be the first suspect. He knows you are not afraid of him because you confronted him and won the battle and you will do the same thing next time if he tries again. If he has even a little brains he will keep out.

I'm sorry for talking about that threat outside of dojo and scaring you, but I still think that was a good advice.

Hope you will forget that jerk soon and the best thing that can help with this - just enjoy your training. It's a lot of fun
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Old 09-15-2004, 10:27 PM   #30
"Anonymous User"
IP Hash: 365cdf28
Anonymous User
Re: Uncomfortable

Great advice everybody. But I'm still paranoid. I can't help it. And I would probably accidently spray myself with the pepper spray Training does keep my mind off this jerk for a little while
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Old 09-15-2004, 11:35 PM   #31
Larry John
Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia
Location: Arlington VA
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Re: Uncomfortable

Old military trick.

Go buy yourself a whistle--preferably a really loud one like those used by referees at basketball or volleyball matches (a Fox 40 is a good example).

Put the whistle on a soft lanyard that you wear all the time (except while on the mat).

If anyone gives you reason to feel afraid, blow that whistle for all you're worth and run toward the nearest group of people.

The loud noise should freeze him for a second--may even make him go down and should attract lots of attention from bystanders. And, you can blow it as much as you need to without getting a sore throat or losing your voice.

Think of it as a form of kiai that you're using to get kuzushi so you can apply technique (run like hell) to escape.

Be Safe.

Larry
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Old 09-16-2004, 04:47 AM   #32
Hanna B
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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Re: Uncomfortable

Quote:
A few people have asked me if there's a chance this guy might bother me outside of class Now I'm kind of paranoid.
Hey, don't be. This is the downside of bringing these things to light, although I think it is often necessary to do so: once people start talking, it all tends to get so excaggerated. The situation you described previously is not at all incommon, and from what you have told I do not see any reason to believe that the man is dangerous.

I never heard of the strategy of carrying a whistle before, but it sounds like a very good one! I used to have one by the phone, to use when I occasionally got dirty phone talks. It felt a lot better after I had blown some noice straight into the guy's right ear.
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Old 09-16-2004, 05:41 AM   #33
paw
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Re: Uncomfortable

Quote:
Great advice everybody. But I'm still paranoid. I can't help it. And I would probably accidently spray myself with the pepper spray
You might consider reading "The Gift of Fear" by Galvin De Becker.

Regards,

Paul
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Old 09-16-2004, 07:04 AM   #34
Aikidoiain
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Re: Uncomfortable

Down him with your forefinger. Here's how - you know that hollow just above your ribcage at the bottom of the throat, that's called the "sternal notch".

Push your finger into his sternal notch and press down as hard as you can (cut your nails first!). Midway down you'll find a bone - hook your finger under that and then pull up.

Trust me, this will floor anyone instantly. You'll leave him on the floor gagging and gasping for breath.

It's a legitimate Hapkido technique by the way.

Last edited by Aikidoiain : 09-16-2004 at 07:11 AM.
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Old 09-16-2004, 01:24 PM   #35
deepsoup
Dojo: Sheffield Shodokan Dojo
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Re: Uncomfortable

What extraordinarily irresponsible advice.
When you're "teaching" self defence, are you in the habit of showing this technique to 15 year old girls and leading them to believe that it'll allow them to:
Quote:
floor anyone instantly [and] leave him on the floor gagging and gasping for breath.
Fortunately, the original poster in this thread seems like a very smart, sensible young woman, and is undoubtedly smart enough to take your advice with a large pinch of salt.

Now I'm not in the habit of attacking people. If I were and I chose a victim who, believing your advice, thought themselves able to "floor me instantly", they'd be in for a pretty horrible surprise.

Sean
x

Last edited by deepsoup : 09-16-2004 at 01:27 PM.
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Old 09-16-2004, 01:37 PM   #36
Aikidoiain
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Re: Uncomfortable

So I take it "kicking him in the balls" as suggested by Greg Jennings is okay then?

Or, perhaps you're not familiar with the technique I suggested?!

My Hapkido instructor seemed to think it works - obviously he is wrong.


Thank you very much indeed oh great Master.

Iain.
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Old 09-16-2004, 01:47 PM   #37
Aikidoiain
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Re: Uncomfortable

I'm glad you got it sorted without the rather irresponsible violence that was suggested - good for you!

That was very brave and mature of you. It's always best to be open about your problems with a responsible person you trust.

Iain.
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Old 09-16-2004, 02:05 PM   #38
suren
Dojo: Aikido of Silicon Valley
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Re: Uncomfortable

Iain, do not be so inflammable. I know you have hard time but...
I can understand your passion in this case, but consider again what Sean said.
He does not say that technique does not work, he just said he does not like the idea of giving such an advice to 15 years teenager. That's his point of view which seems reasonable in the case we do not face a life threat.
Anyway, I don't think this guy is dangerous. If he were really some sort of maniac, he would not play so openly. As I understand he is 20 or close years old and I don't think this case would make him sacrifice his free life and go to jail.
And to Anonimous - I'm sure this encounter means much more to you than to him. Why should he want a revenge? What did he lose? Face? He never had one! Pride? He never had one! Ego? Yes, but the way he quit made him feel more comfortable (I denied everything. This girl just lying!) He retreated. And I do not see much reasons for him to risk going to a jail.
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Old 09-16-2004, 02:08 PM   #39
suren
Dojo: Aikido of Silicon Valley
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Re: Uncomfortable

Sorry, my post seems to have a mistake... He did not lose his Ego too... Unfortunately
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Old 09-16-2004, 02:24 PM   #40
deepsoup
Dojo: Sheffield Shodokan Dojo
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Re: Uncomfortable

Quote:
Iain Smith wrote:
So I take it "kicking him in the balls" as suggested by Greg Jennings is okay then?
Greg's post was an amusing haiku, a witty and poetic jest. (Ok, so maybe I'm being a bit charitable about the quality of Greg's poetry here.)
It wasn't meant to be taken entirely seriously, I suspect. If it were, then his advice would've been as stupid as yours.
Quote:
My Hapkido instructor seemed to think it works - obviously he is wrong.
If he thinks it'll work reliably for a 15 year old girl, faced with an adult male assailant, then yes he is indeed wrong.
Furthermore, if he (or you) were to teach such a technique to a 15 year old girl, and lead them to believe they can use it as you suggest, he'd not only be wrong, he'd also be criminally irresponsible.

Sean
x
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Old 09-16-2004, 02:59 PM   #41
Aikidoiain
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Re: Uncomfortable

That's funny Sean, because while I was training in Hapkido, there was indeed a girl about 14 or 15 who joined around about the same time as myself. We both graded together, and she had to demonstrate the "forefinger to sternal notch" technique on the instructor - and guess what?....he dropped to the floor just like I said. He wasn't faking it. This young girl floored an adult Hapkido instructor using this very technique.

Incidentally, if you look for a book by Hapkido Master, Fred Adams, called, "HANDS OFF! - Self-Defense for Women", you'll see just how perfectly capable women/girls are at dealing with attacks from men. In fact, some of the techniques are actually painful to look at! So, I suggest you take this issue up with the author ( who incidentally taught my instructor).

The main issue here is that the anon person got the situation resolved.....remember?

Footnote: Yet again my comments attract criticism.

Iain.
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Old 09-16-2004, 03:39 PM   #42
thomas_dixon
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Re: Uncomfortable

I'm glad everything worked out in the end ^_^
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Old 09-16-2004, 04:40 PM   #43
deepsoup
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Re: Uncomfortable

Quote:
Iain Smith wrote:
That's funny Sean, because while I was training in Hapkido, there was indeed a girl about 14 or 15 who joined around about the same time as myself. We both graded together, and she had to demonstrate the "forefinger to sternal notch" technique on the instructor - and guess what?....he dropped to the floor just like I said. He wasn't faking it. This young girl floored an adult Hapkido instructor using this very technique.
A person who can't tell the difference between a girl demonstrating a technique in a dojo with a willing uke, and a girl applying a technique successfully in the Real World [TM] has no business calling himself a "self defence instructor". "False sense of security" instructor might be more apt.

There are plenty of examples to be found in this very forum of how 'pain' controls do not work against very many assailants. Still less against assailants who may be much larger, stronger, more focussed and aggressive than their probably terrified victim. The attacker in this scenario is in a state of mind that quite possibly lends him an unbelievably high pain threshold, and you're asking the victim to remain withing 'grappling distance' while she tries to immobilise him with one finger!

Lets be charitable and say he allows her to prod away at his sternum for half a second. It might take him longer than that to notice if she broke his leg, and as soon as he moves her hand away (or interrupts her attack with an atemi of his own), whatever pain she may have managed to inflict has gone.

We all live in cloud cuckoo land to some extent. I'm certainly guilty of harbouring some silly martial arts fantasies myself. Its ok, really, as long as you keep it in your own head.
But to teach someone that such a technique will reliably offer them protection is to peddle a fantasy that could get them killed, and for what? A chance for the 'instructor' to indulge some egotistical macho fantasy of his own? Its unforgiveable.

There are many books on self defence which are also peddling a self defence fantasy. I haven't seen the book you mention, but from the cheesy title I suspect it may be just such a book. I certainly will have a leaf through it if I see a copy (unlikely, Amazon don't seem to stock it, is it out of print?) You may be right, I probably would find it painful to look at, but not necessarily for the reasons you think.

Meanwhile, why don't you have a look at http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/.
Quote:
Footnote: Yet again my comments attract criticism.
Indeed. This is a forum for public discussion, to post your comments here is to invite criticism. Acknowledge the truth and be free.

Sean
x
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Old 09-16-2004, 06:05 PM   #44
Don_Modesto
Dojo: Messores Sensei (Largo, Fl.)
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Re: Uncomfortable

Quote:
paul watt wrote:
You might consider reading "The Gift of Fear" by Galvin De Becker.
I second this.

The book is a contemporary classic.

It gives sound advice for dealing with unwanted attention.

It teaches you techniques for delving into your intuition--that feeling of unease that you can't quite put your finger on--and making it explicit.

It has lots of case histories and examples of how this is done.

All around excellent. Get it from your local library.

Congratulations again.

GANBATTE!
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Old 09-16-2004, 10:00 PM   #45
Aikidoiain
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Re: Uncomfortable

Like I said Sean, you should take this issue up with Fred Adams. I didn't invent the technique. He had 16 black belts covering many styles when his book was issued, and taught the SAS. But I guess you know better.

And don't be so cheeky and quick to judge either. I've used the technique in fights and it works as a strike too, so there! Don't question my credentials again!

Go away....
Iain.
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Old 09-16-2004, 10:26 PM   #46
Aikidoiain
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Re: Uncomfortable

Just kidding......you can come back now Sean. I'm sorry for being me.

Don't listen to a word I say. I don't know what I'm talking about.


Iain. -
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Old 09-17-2004, 04:10 AM   #47
Aikidoiain
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Re: Uncomfortable

To Sean,


Finally, just to let you know, that I only teach Self-Defense to my friends, most of whom are over 35. Secondly, I would never dream of teaching anyone who -

1. I didn't know. and....

2. Was under this age.

And also just for the record - I also teach friends who already do other Martial Arts, yet still regard my teaching as valid.

I still think you have a bone to pick with Hapkido Master, Fred Adams, about his teaching methods. I'm sure someone on this site must have heard of him. He's well respected in the MA community - but like I said, if you know better, perhaps you should advise him. I would watch though - I've heard he is not a man who takes kindly to criticism.

Take care,
Iain.
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Old 09-17-2004, 05:23 AM   #48
PeterR
 
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Re: Uncomfortable

Sean wont say this but I will.

I met Sean while he was training in Japan and have seen him do full resistance randori the Tomiki way (you know those tapes you watched) with some of the worlds best. He's tough, dynamic and still level headed enough to understand what he does and doesn't know, what he can and can not do.

His comments are spot on.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 09-17-2004, 06:08 AM   #49
Aikidoiain
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Re: Uncomfortable

I have no formal qualifications in Aikido.

The only person I don't respect in this forum is myself. I meant no offense to Sean. I still think he should check out Fred Adams though.

I am at the lowest rung of the ladder, as you know, so just ignore my comments in future.

Thanks,
Iain. -
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Old 09-17-2004, 09:07 AM   #50
Greg Jennings
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Re: Uncomfortable

Quote:
Sean Orchard wrote:
Greg's post was an amusing haiku, a witty and poetic jest. (Ok, so maybe I'm being a bit charitable about the quality of Greg's poetry here.)
Three things:

1. My original comment was when the issue was was inappropriate and unwelcome conversation on the mat. Maybe I'm a barbarian, (I'm also the father of a gorgeous 9 year old daughter), but kicking a 20-something year old knowingly hitting on a 15 year old in the 'nads in the dojo with people around would make me happy as a way of calling attention to the issue.

The issue is now a concern for stalking outside the dojo. It is a very different situation.

2. The point of the first poem was to "Tell Sensei Everything". She did and the immediate issue at that time was resolved.

3. The second part of the second poem warned Anonymous that the jerk might persist. I mentioned pepper spray not as a first-line response, but to have as a last-ditch "ace in the hole". When my daughter starts going places with friends rather than Dad, I'll make sure that she is equipped in just that way.

The whistle idea sounds good as a first response. I do think it needs something to back it up.

Best,

Greg Jennings
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