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Old 09-05-2004, 12:30 AM   #1
AikiWeb System
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Poll: How important is knowing step-by-step kihonwaza (basic techniques) for beginning aikido students?

AikiWeb Poll for the week of September 5, 2004:

How important is knowing step-by-step kihonwaza (basic techniques) for beginning aikido students?
  • I don't do aikido
  • Critically important
  • Very important
  • Somewhat important
  • Not very important
  • Not at all important
Here are the current results.
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Old 09-05-2004, 10:59 AM   #2
SeiserL
 
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Dojo: Roswell Budokan, Kyushinkan Dojo, Aikido World Alliance
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Re: Poll: How important is knowing step-by-step kihonwaza (basic techniques) for beginning aikido students?

IMHO, critically important at all stages. There really is now advanced stages, just refining and polishing the basics.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 09-05-2004, 10:58 PM   #3
Joezer M.
 
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Re: Poll: How important is knowing step-by-step kihonwaza (basic techniques) for beginning aikido students?

I noticed that there are several votes for "Not very important" and "Not at all important". Just curious, but why would anyone feel that kihon-waza is unimportant?

Regards,
Joezer

I AM in shape... Round is a shape...
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Old 09-06-2004, 02:15 AM   #4
Marc Kupper
Dojo: Aikido of Diablo Valley / ASU
Location: Walnut Creek, California
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Re: Poll: How important is knowing step-by-step kihonwaza (basic techniques) for beginning aikido students?

Quote:
Joezer Mandagi wrote:
I noticed that there are several votes for "Not very important" and "Not at all important". Just curious, but why would anyone feel that kihon-waza is unimportant?
I'm stumped a bit on the poll question and could see "Not at all important" as a valid answer. The poll question "How important is knowing step-by-step kihonwaza (basic techniques) for beginning aikido students?" assumes agreement on the definition/meaning of things like "knowing," "step-by-step," "kihonwaza," "beginning aikido students," etc.

For example, in my dojo we emphasize kihonwaza but don't seem to approach it in a "step-by-step" fashion. Like a young person learning to walk we first do technique using essentially large motor skills and over time (with much practice) we employ finer motor skills (think big, move small). The more I learn about kihonwaza the more I find out how much I don't know and so perhaps I've yet to learn (or unlearn) that there is a step-by-step to it.

What exactly is a "beginning aikido student?" A shodan?
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Old 09-06-2004, 05:57 PM   #5
aikidoc
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Re: Poll: How important is knowing step-by-step kihonwaza (basic techniques) for beginning aikido students?

Critically important. It serves as the foundation for all other techniques.
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Old 09-06-2004, 09:08 PM   #6
Don_Modesto
Dojo: Messores Sensei (Largo, Fl.)
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Re: Poll: How important is knowing step-by-step kihonwaza (basic techniques) for beginning aikido students?

Quote:
AikiWeb System wrote:
AikiWeb Poll for the week of September 5, 2004:

How important is knowing step-by-step kihonwaza (basic techniques) for beginning aikido students?
  • I don't do aikido
  • Critically important
  • Very important
  • Somewhat important
  • Not very important
  • Not at all important
Here are the current results.
"Step by step"--I think Iwama.

The question hits a nerve with me. I teach step by step and it fits my theory of learning. However, one of the finest teachers I've ever met, Saotome Mitsugi, doesn't do what I'd call step by step teaching. Yet his students are excellent--John Messores, Patti Saotome, George Ledyard, Kevin Choate, Charlie Page, Dennis Hooker, Steve McPeck...

I've just had some Iwama students transfer into my class and they're a delight to have. But at the other end of the spectrum, Saotome's students are excellent, too.

I don't know how to answer this question. Saying it's not important contradicts my own teaching, but then, so does Saotome's teaching...

Don J. Modesto
St. Petersburg, Florida
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http://www.theaikidodojo.com/
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Old 09-06-2004, 09:30 PM   #7
Nacho_mx
Dojo: Federación Mexicana de Aikido
Location: Mexico City
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Re: Poll: How important is knowing step-by-step kihonwaza (basic techniques) for beginning aikido students?

Itīs not that kihon waza is not important, itīs the "step-by-step" part that I thought itīs not at all important. Itīs better to get the new students try to practice all this techniques in one, fluid motion (with all the natural mistakes and corrections) instead of doing it like robots.
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Old 09-07-2004, 09:41 AM   #8
Nick Simpson
Dojo: White Rose Aikido - Durham University
Location: Gateshead
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Re: Poll: How important is knowing step-by-step kihonwaza (basic techniques) for beginning aikido students?

For a total begginer I think learning how to roll, be uke, dojo ettiquette and seeing and doing a wide range of techniques to get them into the swing of things is a good thing, but after a little while they will need to begin to learn the basics properly. They are the foundation of all aikido afterall. If your basics suck, then so will everything else!

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
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Old 09-07-2004, 11:08 AM   #9
Hanna B
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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Re: Poll: How important is knowing step-by-step kihonwaza (basic techniques) for beginning aikido students?

It depends on the method of teaching...
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Old 09-09-2004, 08:42 AM   #10
J.Allen
Dojo: Woodbridge Aikido Club
Location: Virginia
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Re: Poll: How important is knowing step-by-step kihonwaza (basic techniques) for beginning aikido students?

Greetings!

As a new student to Aikido, I think that it is imperative. It is the basis/basics of what we do. As a teacher of anything (Aikido, drumming, whatever) I feel if you don't give the student a solid understanding of the basics you are setting them up to fail and as the student if you don't incorporate that information and build upon it you are failing yourself. How can you expect a new student to be a good uke without teaching them the basics of giving, protecting and receiving? How can you expect a new student to be a good nage without teaching them leading, moving in a centered fashion, projecting, breathing, etc etc? I know that If I wasn't shown things in a step-by-step way from the beginning I would be a lot worse off. And based on testimonials and my own experience (to a minimal degree) time and practice will round and smooth things out...and all those steps will become one solid technique.


J
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Old 09-09-2004, 09:08 AM   #11
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
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Re: Poll: How important is knowing step-by-step kihonwaza (basic techniques) for beginning aikido students?

I like Hanna's and Don's answers...I also think it depends on the method of teaching, as well as the prefered method of learning for the student. Being in the yoshinkan, I relate to the step by step method, but I know folks who have excellent aikido who can't stand that. They want the ki-no-nagare flow thingy to happen from day one...and some of them teach that way and show excellent results. The best can handle the really strong, focused, not giving your balanced attacks too. Too many separate issues in the poll I think. Sorry Jun... Could you rephrase the poll question?

Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 09-10-2004, 08:00 PM   #12
Virgil
Dojo: Aikido Juko Dojo
Location: Albuquerque
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Re: Poll: How important is knowing step-by-step kihonwaza (basic techniques) for beginning aikido students?

I voted "somewhat important" primarily b/c in my dojo we stress movement rather than technical mastery . . . and I think that, as has been stated, every technique is really much more refined than it initially appears. I'm in the upper ques now, and am still working on techniques that were among the first ones taught. You don't "get" shiho-nage right off, so I think it's more important to get the movement than the technique per se

V.
"In a pleasant spring morning all men's sins
are forgiven"
Thoreau, Walden
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