Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Weapons

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-12-2004, 05:55 PM   #1
NH
Location: England
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7
United Kingdom
Offline
Did Ono-ha Itto Ryu influence Aikido sword?

Hi,

I was curious whether it has been ascertained exactly which schools of Kenjutsu influenced Morihei Ueshiba's Aikido sword techniques. I have heard he may have trained with some well-known schools in his earlier days, but this may just be rumours.

Is Ono-ha Itto Ryu known/believed to have influenced Aikido sword techniques?

Regards,

Nick Hallale
England

Last edited by NH : 08-12-2004 at 06:08 PM. Reason: change title
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2004, 06:13 PM   #2
NH
Location: England
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Origin of sword work in Aikido

Just to clarify the reason for the question: I am aware of the links between Daito Ryu and Ono-ha Itto Ryu and was wondering if any of that carried through to Aikido.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2004, 06:36 PM   #3
kironin
 
kironin's Avatar
Dojo: Houston Ki Aikido
Location: Houston,TX
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,033
United_States
Offline
Re: Origin of sword work in Aikido

yes.


  Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2004, 12:45 AM   #4
Lyle Laizure
 
Lyle Laizure's Avatar
Dojo: Hinode Dojo LLC
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 560
United_States
Offline
Re: Origin of sword work in Aikido

I believe he studied Yagu shinkage ryu as well as others.

Lyle Laizure
www.hinodedojo.com
Deru kugi wa uta reru
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2004, 03:47 AM   #5
kironin
 
kironin's Avatar
Dojo: Houston Ki Aikido
Location: Houston,TX
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,033
United_States
Offline
Re: Origin of sword work in Aikido

Actually, the taigi 29 in Ki Society formulated by Koichi Tohei Sensei is kumi-tachi supposedly comes from Yagu shinkage ryu tradition. At least that's according to what a 9th dan told me who should know. It's not supposed to be demonstrated to the public by anyone lower than of Godan rank. It's fun though.

what little Ona-ha Itto Ryu Kenjutsu I have done was fun

if coming from these traditions, various Aiki-ken have mutated from these forms quite a bit.

  Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2004, 08:43 AM   #6
L. Camejo
 
L. Camejo's Avatar
Dojo: Ontario Martial Arts
Location: Mississauga, Ontario
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,423
Canada
Offline
Re: Origin of sword work in Aikido

This is an interesting question, since I recently got a sort of mini-revelation when training under a Japanese 8th Dan who visited. He took apart our sword work and showed me how to do the basic bokken movements from the perspective of Ono Ha Itto Ryu. He was saying that the grip and striking techniques many of us use in Aiki-ken would not make sense if being viewed from the perspective of someone who knew how to use a sword and were really attacking, as it left too many openings for the Aikidoka to get off relatively easy technique. This, he said, may be good for Aikido practice, but not so good if we want to understand the basics of handling a sword.

Being one who emphasises effective technique, he showed us how to grip the bokken and execute the basic cuts Ono Ha Itto Ryu style and then show how the Aikido techniques should be applied (though modified very slightly to deal with the new grip and focus of the strikes) against this more effective, kenjutsu attack, instead of the attacks we normally use that make it easy to do Aikido technique against bokken.

I felt like a beginner at weapons work all over again, when I compare what we used to practice against what he had shown us, so I can now understand Craig's concept of mutation in what we often pass for good sword work in Aikido.

This of course has sprung a desire in me to learn Ono Ha Itto Ryu to get better insight into these principles and how they relate to Aikido. Of course, this ryu is also what S. Takeda studied and is also taught by one of the branches of Daito Ryu alongside the empty handed techniques if I'm not mistaken.

Gambatte.
LC

Last edited by L. Camejo : 08-13-2004 at 08:46 AM.

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
http://www.tntaikido.org
http://www.mushinkan.ca
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2004, 02:05 PM   #7
Charles Hill
Dojo: Numazu Aikikai/Aikikai Honbu Dojo
Location: Three Lakes WI/ Mishima Japan
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 837
Offline
Re: Origin of sword work in Aikido

I have a short video of Kunii Sensei of the Kashima Shinryu and was struck by how similar he and Morihei Ueshiba moved with the sword. Kisshomaru Ueshiba studied the ryu and apparently showed his father what he had learned. Perhaps this was an influence as well.

Charles Hill
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2004, 04:51 PM   #8
Chris Li
 
Chris Li's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,085
United_States
Offline
Re: Origin of sword work in Aikido

Quote:
Charles Hill wrote:
I have a short video of Kunii Sensei of the Kashima Shinryu and was struck by how similar he and Morihei Ueshiba moved with the sword. Kisshomaru Ueshiba studied the ryu and apparently showed his father what he had learned. Perhaps this was an influence as well.

Charles Hill
I'll note here that Kashima Shin Ryu and Kashima Shinto Ryu are two different schools. Kisshomaru trained with instructors from Kashima Shinto Ryu, and much of Morihei's swordwork from Iwama after the war resembles Kashima Shinto Ryu (although he never trained directly, he only observed classes).

Kashima Shin Ryu has links to Aikido through Seigo Yamaguchi, whose swordwork was influenced by the school, and through Minoru Inaba, who teaches a limited portion of the curriculum along with Aikido. There are no (to my knowledge) direct links to Morihei Ueshiba's swordwork.

Best,

Chris

  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Aikido does not work at all in a fight. joeysola General 1930 07-09-2012 03:51 AM
Steven Seagal Interview ad_adrian General 45 01-15-2010 04:34 PM
Women and Everybody Else in Aikido George S. Ledyard Teaching 113 03-16-2008 08:27 PM
Will Aikido really work? chrisward Techniques 141 02-07-2006 04:45 PM
Aikido works. Your aikido doesn't work. Erik General 38 02-27-2005 09:39 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:35 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate