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Old 07-20-2004, 05:01 AM   #1
kocakb
Dojo: Burhan Felek Sport Center-Istanbul
Location: Istanbul
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 110
Turkey
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atemi

Hi all;
atemi is said to be very important for our techniques; to break the balance. I realised that, while we are training, for example in yokomen uchi shiho nage, we just softly touch the ukes face and continue the technique.
what I want to ask, in a real application, is there a specific point to do atemi in aikido; like striking the nose, eyes, chin etc ? or just hit anywhere and continue ?
I applied once to 2-3 classes of boxing. They were punching in the mid of the face; breaks the nose of the opponent. Personaly I think this is more than breaking the balance , just be curious about your opinion...
have a nice and sunny day
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Old 07-20-2004, 06:06 AM   #2
AriesS
Dojo: Traditional Aikido Philippines
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Re: atemi

It is normally used to DISTRACT and/or UNBALANCE your opponent.
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Old 07-20-2004, 06:27 AM   #3
Ian Williams
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Re: atemi

when transiting from the inside to the outside in Jujitsu.. (sorry, I don't know the japanese or aikido equivs but imagine blocking a a left overhead attack in a left foot stance..) we do a striking unbalance to the face with an open hand, not a punch, in order to turn the whole head away from you. This acheives both the distraction to transit to the outside, and also puts space between you and the persons right arm....

So the idea is not always to strike to damage...


which reminds me, a documentary on bruce lee is about to start!.. must scoot.

Last edited by Ian Williams : 07-20-2004 at 06:30 AM.

Tsutsumi Ryu Jujitsu
Adelaide, South Australia

Te audire no possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure
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Old 07-20-2004, 08:11 AM   #4
Nick P.
 
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Dojo: Sukagawa Aikido Club of Montreal
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Re: atemi

On the other hand (pardon the pun)....

http://www.aikidofaq.com/video/chiba_wakeup.mov


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Old 07-20-2004, 10:18 AM   #5
Lyle Laizure
 
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Re: atemi

Atemi should flow with the technique you are performing so as not to stop your momentum. How hard you choose to strike is a decision you have to make for the given situation you are engaged. You don't want to use excessive force but at the same time you have to be sure that the atemi is effective.

Generally speaking I use an open handed strike but there are times close handed (fist) strikes are more appropriate and more effective.

Lyle Laizure
www.hinodedojo.com
Deru kugi wa uta reru
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Old 07-20-2004, 10:45 AM   #6
jxa127
Dojo: Itten Dojo -- Mechanicsburg, PA
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Re: atemi

You're right, it can be more than just breaking balance. Atemi can be devestatingly effective, and I don't think that that is necessarily counter to aikido principles.

See the links at the bottom of this page for some good discussions on the topic.

Regards,

-Drew

----
-Drew Ames
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Old 07-20-2004, 09:56 PM   #7
xuzen
 
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Re: atemi

Dear fellow aikidoka,

This atemi subject is too delicious to ignore. I know that it has been discussed many times... Argggh, I can't resist, my fingers are making me type this...

Trying to apply aikido technique thinking atemi is the Key Success Factor: Wrong

Using atemi as an adjuct to disharmonize the uke while applying a technique. Correct.

To more novice practitioner, I hope you all understand atemi is not merely punching the face, nose etc to cause pain. Take hiji ate for example, it has an atemi built into it, i.e. the hitting of the elbow. Sokumen iriminage, it is an atemi to the chest with your elbow. Irimi Kokyu nage, an atemi to the shoulder joint. They are built in the technique to smooth out the techniques' execution.

Once upon a time, I was roughing it out with a fellow pratcitioner. He got me on the floor and trying to pin him was difficult, because he was moving around like an eel. So I managed to locate the shoulder joint and screw my knuckle into the joint. He was almost in tears. I hope I never get the same treatment, I think that must have been an unpleasant sensation.

Just something on the side (pls take it with humour)... if atemi can be anything used to distract the uke, then maybe some very unconventional techniques like, biting, spitting into the eyes, ramming your forehead against the nose are fairgame too?


Boon

SHOMEN-ATE (TM), the solution to 90% of aikido and life's problems.
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Old 07-20-2004, 10:04 PM   #8
Ian Williams
Location: Adelaide, Australia
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Re: atemi

Quote:
Just something on the side (pls take it with humour)... if atemi can be anything used to distract the uke, then maybe some very unconventional techniques like, biting, spitting into the eyes, ramming your forehead against the nose are fairgame too?
correct.. I was discussing "biting unbalances" with my sensei last week when discussing how to escape rear headlocks by very very strong opponents.. I'm less than satisfied the standard JJ technique being taught to us would work in real life.

Tsutsumi Ryu Jujitsu
Adelaide, South Australia

Te audire no possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure
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Old 07-20-2004, 10:58 PM   #9
Charles Hill
Dojo: Numazu Aikikai/Aikikai Honbu Dojo
Location: Three Lakes WI/ Mishima Japan
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Re: atemi

Just an opinion, but I think that many differences of opinion about atemi are actually due to different definitions of the term. In Japanese, to a regular person, the word "atemi" has a very general connotation. I think that many Japanese teachers have strong opinions about how to use strikes with techniques, and this opinion becomes the definition for non Japanese speaking students.

Charles Hill
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Old 07-21-2004, 12:03 AM   #10
Kyri Honigh
Dojo: Aikido Curacao
Location: Curacao
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Re: atemi

Well I think you can hit to destract and to damage. If you hit to damage or daze your opponent, I'd recommend hitting the temples, gouging the eyes, hitting the nose, upperlip and throat. Mid section: solar plexus, spleen, or any area of the lower belly (muscles are usually underdeveloped and therefore weak). Legs, knees, shins and ankles. Arms : elbow, shoulder joint. I don't know much about actually applying atemi outside of the dojo, but to me it would be a good thing to read about the weak points of the human body. Krav Maga is great at attacking the weak spots of the human body, but their methods are very brutal.
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Old 07-21-2004, 09:42 AM   #11
Lyle Laizure
 
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Re: atemi

Quote:
Just something on the side (pls take it with humour)... if atemi can be anything used to distract the uke, then maybe some very unconventional techniques like, biting, spitting into the eyes, ramming your forehead against the nose are fairgame too?
My interpretation of atemi is anything that will off balance your attacker. From what you mentioned in the quote to a big fat kiss. It works.

Lyle Laizure
www.hinodedojo.com
Deru kugi wa uta reru
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Old 07-21-2004, 12:43 PM   #12
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
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Re: atemi

David Valadez has an excellent post on aikidojournal.com that discusses the idea of atemi leading into grappling...while I don't necessarily agree with all of his points, its pretty well thought out, and gives some practical exercises to try. Its probably worth searching for.

Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 07-21-2004, 03:40 PM   #13
Paula Lydon
Dojo: Aikido Shugenkai
Location: Colorado
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Re: atemi

~~In the style of jujitsu I'd studied, we always struck for varying degrees of damage, my teacher explaining: "This has a higher chance rating of disbalancing someone than simple trying to disbalance them. At least you'll usually get something more often than not to work with."~~

~~Paula~~
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