Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-30-2005, 10:06 PM   #1
antdigoh
Location: Phils.
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 15
Offline
A Word of Concern to all Aikidoka...

Deaths of some great sense-is have somewhat alarmed me, noticed that most of them died of fatal diseases, if not cancer, massive heart attacks and other terminal illnesses. These consequences have worried me a bit, so I did my own research and analysis silently with regards to practicing aikido.

Mine is just of word of advise and should served as brotherly concern if not some sort of warning. It's up to you guys I just wanted to share my views and conclusions...

Please refrain from focusing on one point, especially to those practicing ki development, or to the higher ranking Aikidoka. There's so much to understand about ki, it's principles and practices. My esoteric inclinations has drawn me to this sports that I have come to love.

I do practice hatha, arhatic and raja yoga, I'm on my higher stage of meditations, so I needed a higher degree of physical exercises/activities. And I chose Aikido for it is somewhat congruent to my spiritual principles. It is a must before and after meditation that we do some simple stretching or rigid exercise to facilitate the flows of energy that has down-poured upon us during a meditation. Since we consider aikido as a meditation in motion, during that moment we are only concern on focusing on one point or the center. Thus we are on a meditative trance in keeping one point. In yoga one point corresponds to the sex chakra or the sex energy center. There are seven major chakras or energy centers, these energy centers controls our vital organs. When we keep one point, we activate that energy center only (which controls our reproductive organs), we tend to forget the other six energy centers. These energy centers should be aligned or incoherence in motions, for the energy passes through these centers(chakra). If we activate only one chakra and the others not, there's a great danger of damaging the internal organ/s being controlled by those certain energy centers.

These what might have happened to those great sensei who have passed away, because for me theirs is not just an ordinary deaths...

anton
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2005, 10:19 PM   #2
bkedelen
 
bkedelen's Avatar
Dojo: Boulder Aikikai
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 446
United_States
Offline
Re: A Word of Concern to all Aikidoka...

This forum gets harder for me to read every day.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2005, 10:33 PM   #3
Mashu
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 106
Offline
Re: A Word of Concern to all Aikidoka...

Thanks for the heads up there Antonino.

  Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2005, 10:42 PM   #4
PeterR
 
PeterR's Avatar
Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,059
Japan
Offline
Re: A Word of Concern to all Aikidoka...

Of course the one point is very Toheiesque. Not something that can easily be attributed to all Aikidoka - no matter how they died.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2005, 10:54 PM   #5
Lan Powers
Dojo: Aikido of Midland, Midland TX
Location: Midland Tx
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 659
Offline
Re: A Word of Concern to all Aikidoka...

Of course, being of a generation that is commonly in the "later" part of the average lifespan of the public at large could be a big part of that.

But it would be interesting to know if the Deshi's have a longer lifespan than others of their age from less active, athletic lifestyles. (I suspect that is the case, but may be just wishing it to be so)
Lan

Play nice, practice hard, but remember, this is a MARTIAL art!
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2005, 11:11 PM   #6
PeterR
 
PeterR's Avatar
Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,059
Japan
Offline
Re: A Word of Concern to all Aikidoka...

Good point.

Shioda G., Ueshiba M., and Tomiki K. lived to a ripe old age. Shioda G. lived a pretty unhealthy life - I bet it was the cigarettes that killed him not the "one point".

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2005, 12:48 AM   #7
Rupert Atkinson
 
Rupert Atkinson's Avatar
Dojo: Wherever I am.
Location: South Korea, Yongin
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 801
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: A Word of Concern to all Aikidoka...

Interesting that they died of fatal diseases.

I think that once people have reached the six score plus ten, they should forget about stats. I mean, we all die, and we have to die of something. As we live longer and longer it obviously means we are doing better but at the end of the day, we have to die of something. Maybe it is good to die suddenly of a massive heart attack when you're old rather than wait for death to slowly creep up while incapacitating you for years.

Anyway, the original poster cited six other important points - so, what are they? Where are they? Anyone interested in the so called 'one-point' should surely be interested if there are another six.

  Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2005, 01:16 AM   #8
Janet Rosen
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Janet Rosen's Avatar
Location: Left Coast
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 3,951
Offline
Re: A Word of Concern to all Aikidoka...

Um, they died of fatal diseases? Anything that kills you is a fatal disease.
Outside of war zones or underdeveloped countries that have infectious disease problems, cancer and heart disease are the major killers of most people.
I'm sorry, as a public health nurse, I have to bluntly say that this is just silly.

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2005, 01:31 AM   #9
Rupert Atkinson
 
Rupert Atkinson's Avatar
Dojo: Wherever I am.
Location: South Korea, Yongin
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 801
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: A Word of Concern to all Aikidoka...

[quote=Janet Rosen]
... cancer and heart disease are the major killers of most people.
QUOTE]
That's just what I mean - there's nothing else to kill us! And if we get rid of these two, what will we die of?

  Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2005, 01:34 AM   #10
Infamousapa
Dojo: Aikido Institute of America
Location: HEAVENS
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 49
United_States
Offline
Re: A Word of Concern to all Aikidoka...

A word of concern to all that practice meditation and take it to an all out extreme.Do not dwell on KI as the essence of life and death..Practice the martial art and follow principles...But when one gets too into the mistic inner energy..You might think you have entered a path of spiritual enlightment that makes you see things in the true...Jesus is the only way,the truth and the life..Emptying yourself thru meditation makes you vulnerable to evil spirits..I dont mean to get religous on you all but threads like these just make me want to quit practicing Aikido at times..But then again I just focus and go to class as a hobby and train hard and put all that bothers aside..Many of these meditation practices teach to renew the spirit thru inner energy and chi<>ki>.I mean i know Aikido is a art that emphasizes KI..Just leave it at that..
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2005, 01:39 AM   #11
antdigoh
Location: Phils.
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 15
Offline
Re: A Word of Concern to all Aikidoka...

1) The crown chakra at the top of the head - controls the brain
2) Ajna chakra (browse) - controls the pituitary gland
3) Throat chakra - thyroid gland
4) Heart chakra - the heart
5) Solar Plexus chakra - this affect diapragm area / the stomach / the intestines / the liver and the panceas...
6) Sex chakra - the reproductive organs (the so called one point)
7) Root chakra - at the end of the spine (the "sleeping serpent of fire" lies)

anton
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2005, 02:51 AM   #12
stuartjvnorton
 
stuartjvnorton's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Shudokan
Location: Melbourne
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 225
Offline
Re: A Word of Concern to all Aikidoka...

Mmm, I like Yogo.
Chocolate is my favourite.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2005, 03:40 AM   #13
Alex Megann
Dojo: Southampton Aikikai
Location: Southampton
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 349
England
Offline
Re: A Word of Concern to all Aikidoka...

Mention of Tohei Sensei makes me think, too. Isn't he eighty-five now?

Focusing on One Point intensively during (from what I hear) a life lived to the full in many ways hasn't finished him off yet...

Alex
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2005, 03:46 AM   #14
Chuck.Gordon
Location: Frederick, MD
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 509
United_States
Offline
Re: A Word of Concern to all Aikidoka...

Um. Sure ....

Right.

Ahem.


Chuck

  Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2005, 03:54 AM   #15
Alex Megann
Dojo: Southampton Aikikai
Location: Southampton
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 349
England
Offline
Re: A Word of Concern to all Aikidoka...

Quote:
Tony Sapa wrote:
..Emptying yourself thru meditation makes you vulnerable to evil spirits..I dont mean to get religous on you all but threads like these just make me want to quit practicing Aikido at times..
I keep coming across this idea that meditation is about emptying the mind. This seems to be a preconception held by people who have not practised meditation with a proper teacher. I suspect it is also an inaccurate polemic spread by those within parts of the evangelical Christian movement, intended to sow distrust. To me this seems to come from the same place of fear and distrust as something I was told personally recently: that yoga is "introducing Hinduism through the back door".

Meditation, as I understand it, both in the yogic and Christian traditions, is a very personal practice of letting go of the debris of everyday living, and learning to see more clearly the true essence of things. This is nothing like emptiness.

Alex
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2005, 05:35 AM   #16
Michael Holm
Dojo: Toitsu - Ki & Aikido Dojo,Glx.
Location: Copenhagen, Gladsaxe
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 26
Denmark
Offline
Re: A Word of Concern to all Aikidoka...

Quote:
Antonino Digohermano wrote:
6) Sex chakra - the reproductive organs (the so called one point)
Which ki aikido dojo practice that "one point" is the same as the "sex chakra" ??

We don't
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2005, 05:40 AM   #17
happysod
Dojo: Kiburn, London, UK
Location: London
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 899
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: A Word of Concern to all Aikidoka...

So if I read this correctly, aikido is the art of practicing dim mak on yourself?

Quote:
Which ki aikido dojo practice that "one point" is the same as the "sex chakra" ??
I've now got some very strange images burned into my retina, thanks (must go get my chakras realigned)
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2005, 05:43 AM   #18
Stefan Stenudd
 
Stefan Stenudd's Avatar
Dojo: Enighet Malmo Sweden
Location: Malmo
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 530
Sweden
Offline
Emptiness and chakra

Quote:
Alex Megann wrote:
Meditation, as I understand it, both in the yogic and Christian traditions, is a very personal practice of letting go of the debris of everyday living, and learning to see more clearly the true essence of things. This is nothing like emptiness.
Alex, that's neatly put. I agree. It's about relating to everything, not making it nothing.

About chakra, I would say that the second one is far from only related to sexuality, in the very complex Indian tradition. And if it were, I would not mind a bit

Personally, I would rather link the root chakra, if any particular one of them, to sexuality. That's where the genitals are, and isn't the coiled up serpent, rising by stimulation, an obvious metaphore of at least male sexuality?

Sex might not prolong your personal life, but it definitely prolongs life as such

Stefan Stenudd
My aikido website: http://www.stenudd.com/aikido/
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2005, 06:45 AM   #19
Fred26
Dojo: Budo Kai, Ki-Aikido
Location: Ístersund
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 61
Sweden
Offline
Re: A Word of Concern to all Aikidoka...

Quote:
Alex Megann wrote:
Mention of Tohei Sensei makes me think, too. Isn't he eighty-five now?

Focusing on One Point intensively during (from what I hear) a life lived to the full in many ways hasn't finished him off yet...

Alex
I believe he is. And f I remember correctly, Tohei hasn't exactly been a health-freak either.

But I guess thats the way life is. Some have healthy life-styles but die young anyways, while other people who keeps abusing their bodies in one way or another lives to a very ripe old age.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2005, 07:48 AM   #20
Matt Molloy
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 134
Scotland
Offline
Re: A Word of Concern to all Aikidoka...

Quote:
Antonino Digohermano wrote:
Deaths of some great sense-is have somewhat alarmed me, noticed that most of them died of fatal diseases, if not cancer, massive heart attacks and other terminal illnesses. These consequences have worried me a bit, so I did my own research and analysis silently with regards to practicing aikido.
You did your research and analysis silently eh? Pity you couldn't keep quiet.

Quote:
Antonino Digohermano wrote:
Mine is just of word of advise and should served as brotherly concern if not some sort of warning. It's up to you guys I just wanted to share my views and conclusions...
And satisfy your own ego.

Quote:
Antonino Digohermano wrote:
Please refrain from focusing on one point, especially to those practicing ki development, or to the higher ranking Aikidoka. There's so much to understand about ki, it's principles and practices. My esoteric inclinations has drawn me to this sports that I have come to love.

I do practice hatha, arhatic and raja yoga, I'm on my higher stage of meditations,
"Higher"......Hmmm. You could be said to be high certainly.

Quote:
Antonino Digohermano wrote:
so I needed a higher degree of physical exercises/activities. And I chose Aikido for it is somewhat congruent yada...Yadda....half baked spiritual rubbish...these energy centers controls our vital organs. When we keeblah....blah....yet more semi-concious ramblings.....possibly should read a medical text or two before posting..... These energy centers should be aligned or incoherence in motions, for the energy passes through these centers(chakryadda...yadda...still going and going...won't shut up.....determined to show himself up....hose certain energy centers.

These what might have happened to those great sensei who have passed away, because for me theirs is not just an ordinary deaths...
Somebody call the men in white coats. We've got a live one here!

People live. People die. All the semi literate pseudo scientific psychobabble in the world won't change that.

One point?

Why not go and do some serious training?

Second thoughts...Just go.

Cheers,

Matt.

Last edited by Matt Molloy : 05-31-2005 at 07:55 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2005, 08:35 AM   #21
Mashu
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 106
Offline
Re: A Word of Concern to all Aikidoka...

Quote:
A word of concern to all that practice meditation and take it to an all out extreme.Do not dwell on KI as the essence of life and death..Practice the martial art and follow principles...But when one gets too into the mistic inner energy..You might think you have entered a path of spiritual enlightment that makes you see things in the true...Jesus is the only way,the truth and the life..Emptying yourself thru meditation makes you vulnerable to evil spirits.
Quote:
I keep coming across this idea that meditation is about emptying the mind. This seems to be a preconception held by people who have not practised meditation with a proper teacher. I suspect it is also an inaccurate polemic spread by those within parts of the evangelical Christian movement, intended to sow distrust.
Jesus and evil spirits aside, I think the advice in the first quote is fairly sound as certain meditative practice can leave the practitioner very open to another's control and conditioning or to some sorts of delusions.
Quote:
To me this seems to come from the same place of fear and distrust as something I was told personally recently: that yoga is "introducing Hinduism through the back door".
That's just wrong.

Be mindful!
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2005, 08:54 AM   #22
Patrick Allen
Dojo: Louisville Aikikai
Location: Louisville, Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 3
United_States
Offline
Re: A Word of Concern to all Aikidoka...

The bottom line is that life is a terminal condition
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2005, 08:58 AM   #23
Anat Amitay
Dojo: Nes- Ziona, "the red house"
Location: Israel
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 137
Israel
Offline
Re: A Word of Concern to all Aikidoka...

Rupert A. wrote: That's just what I mean - there's nothing else to kill us! And if we get rid of these two, what will we die of?
hmmm.... old age?
As for the rest of the thread- not all senseis go on "spiritual paths" and not all believe in them (so Tony S., don't quit Aikido, you might just lose a great MA! )
people die because they die- how many in your dojo practice 2-4 times a week, but after class go to the local pub and drink 4 half liters of beer (just does wonders to your liver... ). How many smoke? (and if it's just cigarretes it's "good")
It's known that some old senseis used to indulge in wonderful competitions like who can drink the most sea water and so... I can't say any of these activities are healthy.
People don't neccesarily lead a healthy life just because they do Aikido, and so they might die at an early age or not.
It also depends on the genetics we get and the surroundings we live in (air pollution, correct diet and so).
As for the chakra's- some believe in them, others don't. I'm not saying either, I never got to actually be explained enough to "take sides".
Each person should live as they see fit, and that's fine. If they die at an early or old age, some would say "only he above knows that".
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2005, 09:02 AM   #24
p00kiethebear
 
p00kiethebear's Avatar
Dojo: Tonbo Dojo
Location: Bainbridge Island WA
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 374
United_States
Offline
Re: A Word of Concern to all Aikidoka...

I didn't think keeping your one point was supposed to prevent disease and make you live forever = / (but then again i've heard of "taoist immortal breathing exercises")

Aikidoka die of disease just like every other human on the planet. Nothing different about it.

"Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity"
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2005, 09:06 AM   #25
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
Offline
Re: A Word of Concern to all Aikidoka...

Quote:
Alex Megann wrote:
Meditation, as I understand it, both in the yogic and Christian traditions, is a very personal practice of letting go of the debris of everyday living, and learning to see more clearly the true essence of things. This is nothing like emptiness.
Hmmmm.....Yogic and "Ki" practices of meditation all are ultimately aimed at taking the "essence" of life, bringing it up the spine, and "awakening" the higher conscience. The "emptying the mind", etc., is part of the process of approaching those controls. The metaphors of "heaven" and "earth" also play into this belief system (analogy within analogy), BTW.

The "reproductive chakra" has its analogue in the "lower dantien" (not the middle dantien that Tohei is talking about focusing on) and there is the same idea of mind, essence, spine (through the "Gate of Life", etc.) that there is in yogic tradition. Take a look at some of O-Sensei's doka and writings ... I think there's more than a comment or two, if you look for them, in "The Essence of Aikido" the mentions these relationships, even though they're cloaked in Japanese terminology, etc. They still derive from the Chinese ideas, which in turn derived from the ancient Indian ideas.

In other words, it's not "spiritual" in the seraphic western sense to do this type of meditation.... there is a common mix-up of the "purifying and sanctifying yourself" idea in western thought with the "get in touch with your inner body control mechanisms" of the eastern approach to meditation. They're not the same thing.

Again, I think the theoretical part of these things is interesting, but it has to be understood that the seemingly esoteric ideas of "meditation", "dantien" (or "chakras"), "ki", and so on, are all rooted in tangible phenomena and observations from the physical world. And the old saying of "if you know it, you can do it; if you can't do it, you don't know it" holds true. And even if you know it and can do it, you're not necessarily assured of a long life. Introduce me to one Taoist Immortal.

MIke
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Aikido of Northern VA Seminars - Doran-sensei in Northern Virginia, March 2015



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Am I a "bad" Aikidoka? cbrf4zr2 General 73 05-24-2010 11:24 PM
Article: A Re-transliteration of Osensei's "Kannagara no Jutsu" by "The Grindstone" AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 57 01-28-2007 01:12 PM
Martial artist / Aikidoka Ghost Fox General 35 08-02-2006 11:42 PM
aggresive and arrogant aikidoka aiki-G Anonymous 55 11-19-2005 08:52 AM
How are aikidoka different? opherdonchin Spiritual 30 08-08-2003 08:14 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:29 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate