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Old 07-14-2004, 08:34 AM   #1
BBozkurt
Join Date: Feb 2002
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Tegatana and Bokuto

By treating your body as a weapon and especially your hand as a tip of a sword, most of the techniques in aikido are finished by cutting the opponent. Like you cannot bend yer sword you should not bend your arm...by using this analogy...most of the techniques can be understood easily...but some techniques are really hard to comprehend in this way...such as,kotegaeshi..or some kokyunages...

do you think that every technique can be explained by treating your arm(tegatana) as a sword(bokuto)?

Bozkurt
nikkyu aikikai
Turkiye
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Old 07-14-2004, 09:19 AM   #2
Fred Little
Dojo: NJIT Budokai
Location: State Line NJ/NY
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Re: Tegatana and Bokuto

Quote:
Baris Bozkurt wrote:

do you think that every technique can be explained by treating your arm(tegatana) as a sword(bokuto)?

Bozkurt
nikkyu aikikai
Turkiye
Most? Yes. Every? No.

Some projection techniques, particularly some kokyunage, seem to be more clearly related to the kind of thrust that would be used with a staff or bayonet.

Although I'm not suggesting a line of derivation, some more elaborate techniques which use the possibilities of movement in the shoulder, elbow, or wrist might be more analogous to the use of a two or three section staff.

Best regards,

Fred Little
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Old 07-14-2004, 02:04 PM   #3
Paul Sanderson-Cimino
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Re: Tegatana and Bokuto

I think it's pretty clearly just a metaphor. Certainly similar movements are used, but an empty-hand shomenuchi is an empty-hand shomenuchi, it is not a sword cut. With respect to kotegaeshi, the 'cutting down to center' seems sword-like - tight grip, arcing outwards and forwards, stopping at center point, whole body movement. But I think differences at the technical level are to be expected.
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Old 07-14-2004, 10:28 PM   #4
NagaBaba
 
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Re: Tegatana and Bokuto

Quote:
Baris Bozkurt wrote:

do you think that every technique can be explained by treating your arm(tegatana) as a sword(bokuto)?

Bozkurt
nikkyu aikikai
Turkiye
Not on beginners level. Only some of very high ranking ppl can do that.
For the rest of us, mortals, we must go throug very severe training in order to understand relations between position of ams in every technique and position arms when doing sword work.
In fact we must start with large circles, and step by step make them smaller and smaller. all this in accordance with whole body movement, particularly hips. There are also very small movements of forearms that tends to disappear, these movements are rotations of forearms and joints(wrists and elbows)....too difficult to explain in words.

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
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Old 07-19-2004, 12:22 AM   #5
Lyle Laizure
 
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Re: Tegatana and Bokuto

I think the answer will become clear if you have an opportunity to study swordsmanship basics.

Lyle Laizure
www.hinodedojo.com
Deru kugi wa uta reru
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Old 07-23-2004, 07:02 PM   #6
David Ringle
Dojo: Aikido of Sacramento
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Re: Tegatana and Bokuto

Thinking about sword work, particularly cutting strokes, has been very useful for many Aikido movements. I think you will miss the subtle figure eight wrist work that is unique to Aikido if you only focus on sword cutting. An example would be tenchi nage, where the sword stroke movement of the arms is preceded briefly by kokyu dosa like hand work that sucks uke in and allows his center to pop up when the sword movement is applied.

I have to thank you for the great topic. I've been thinking a lot about the sword movement in Aikido lately. Taking a more serious look at weapons work has really improved my Aikido.
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Old 07-28-2004, 11:08 PM   #7
xuzen
 
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Re: Tegatana and Bokuto

Quote:
David Ringle wrote:
Thinking about sword work, particularly cutting strokes, has been very useful for many Aikido movements. I think you will miss the subtle figure eight wrist work that is unique to Aikido if you only focus on sword cutting. I've been thinking a lot about the sword movement in Aikido lately. Taking a more serious look at weapons work has really improved my Aikido.
Yup, David,

You are right. As a MA derived from armed combat, Aikido does have a lot of similarity to kenjutsu movement. In fact, a lot of Aikido idiosicracies and percularity may be explained and make more sense when we start to see how a swordsperson utilizes his weapon.


Boon.

SHOMEN-ATE (TM), the solution to 90% of aikido and life's problems.
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Old 07-29-2004, 05:16 AM   #8
markwalsh
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Re: Tegatana and Bokuto

Out of interest, does anyone know of a senior instructor who doesn't use sword analogies, or says Aikido is not like sword work?

Mark
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