Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-18-2004, 11:03 AM   #26
Paul Melsness
Dojo: Ottawa Aikikai
Location: Ottawa
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 13
Canada
Offline
Re: Concrete Ukemi

I just read this thread yesterday afternoon and was run off the road by a car while cycling home from work later that day. Fortunately, my mind was clear as I was thrown over my handlebars after braking hard. The first thing that came to my mind was "I recognize this feeling!" and was instinctively able to do a forward roll out of it (I agree Ian, instinct is an important part of surviving a fall). Apart from a rather nasty bump on my forearm just below the elbow (and a couple of scrapes) I came out of that situation in pretty good shape. Looking back on the roll now, I think I probably could have absorbed more of the initial landing with my hands (since they were gloved) and perhaps rolled with a judo style roll (rolling onto my feet) rather than ending the roll in a kind of barrel roll (skinned my knee a little). Just goes to show that having the presence of mind (or no-mind) to feel what your body is doing and being able to respond is vital in cases like this. I think once I entered the roll, I sort of stopped listening to my body and assumed I was OK (I was more concerned with the bike that was now bearing down on me).

BTW. The guy in the car was fined $110 for failing to remain at the scene (thank goodness for witnesses).

Peace,

Paul
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2004, 11:11 AM   #27
PeaceHeather
Dojo: hopefully Purdue Aikido Club
Location: Indiana
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 158
United_States
Offline
Re: Concrete Ukemi

Husband went flying over the shoulder of a horse that decided bucking him would be a fun idea. He remembers seeing the ground coming up at him and thinking something like "uh-oh", then his next memory is of standing and looking at the horse, who was looking back at him in shock! His body had that tingle along all the right spots you'd expect for a forward roll, and his only injury was a bruise on one hip where a rock dug into him -- but it happened so fast that he doesn't actually remember the roll.

So yeah, those of you saying that your ukemi needs to be instinctive... I'm convinced that "instinctive" saved my husband from at LEAST a broken arm, if not a broken neck.

Heather
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2004, 11:16 AM   #28
zachbiesanz
Dojo: New York Aikikai; Byakkokan Dojo (Toyama Ryu Battodo)
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 71
United_States
Offline
Re: Concrete Ukemi

I've taken a couple diggers off my skateboard that were less severe than they would have been sans aikido training. One time I hit a rock and took a nice forward roll across the gravelly sidewalk (which should have been a clue not to skate there). Another time the board just went sailing out from under me, and I took a nice back breakfall on the pavement. Don't get me wrong: it still hurt and I continued to lie there for a little while, but I was pleased to notice that I kept my chin tucked in and thusly didn't hit my head.

Aikido is the art of hitting an assailant with the planet.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2004, 07:11 PM   #29
Ian Williams
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 136
Offline
Re: Concrete Ukemi

Quote:
Mary Kuhner wrote:
I trippped on concrete a couple of months back and did a face-plant. While picking gravel out of my hands I thought, first, "Why didn't I try a forward roll?" and second, "If I'd have done a forward roll while wearing that large, bulky backpack I'd have killed myself."
Mary Kaye
A forward break fall would have been much more useful than a roll, especially if have little forward momentum..

In JJ, we practice this by forming a "V" with our hands, with the fingers outwards in front of our face, and we kick our legs out backwards and to the side so we're falling as near as straight as possible..The impact is taken by our hands and forearms.. No need to roll.

(no need to eat gravel either)
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2004, 10:57 PM   #30
Largo
Dojo: Aikikai Dobunkan/ Icho Ryu Aikijujutsu
Location: Indiana
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 247
United_States
Offline
Re: Concrete Ukemi

I don't know if this should be here or not, but I only have one hard surface ukemi/ instinctive ukemi story. My apartment is Japanese style (tatami mats) and is rather cluttered. Anyways, I tripped and was about to go face first into the floor when I instinctively took an ukemi, and ended up slamming my back into the wall. I was unhurt, but there is a pretty large hole in my wall (and I'm moving in about 2 months).

maybe instinctive ukemi ain't all that great. (more likely I just need to clean my place a bit more)
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2004, 11:12 PM   #31
Ian Williams
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 136
Offline
Re: Concrete Ukemi

Paul, walls can be replaced, backs can't
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2004, 03:38 AM   #32
Bronson
 
Bronson's Avatar
Dojo: Seiwa Dojo and Southside Dojo
Location: Battle Creek & Kalamazoo, MI
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,677
Offline
Re: Concrete Ukemi

Quote:
Bronson Diffin wrote:
...some of the other students have related stories of slips and falls we've taken in the "world" and our normal, matted, rolling/falling practice served us just fine.
Just found out tonight that one of my students fell off the back of a camel while in Egypt a couple of weeks ago. She landed in a back breakfall position...unhurt. She landed in sand which I'm sure softened the landing but she was also falling from a height more than double what she's ever done before.

Lucky for her we practiced falling off camels before she left or she never would have been able to do it

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2004, 10:07 PM   #33
Pete Redshaw
Location: Saitama
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1
Japan
Offline
Re: Concrete Ukemi

I used to get so frustrated at how much mat work I had to do, but fortunately no amount of complaining made any difference and my instructor showed nothing but patience, which as a result saved me serious injury on at least two occasions, not to mention making my subsequently frequent trips to the mat much more bearable.

When I was in the 8th grade I developed a silly stunt of flipping over the railing of a steel stairwell, as if I had unexpectedly backed into it and just fallen over, miraculously catching the railing with my hands. What started out as something requiring lots of concious planning became reflex, and I got so good at it that I made the ultimate sin of deciding it was impossible for me to blow it.
One of the last times I did it, I hit the railing sooner than expected and, thanks to my carefully developed reflexes, just went over, and without the benefit of proper alignment, only one hand caught the railing, which just simply wasn't enough, considering the circular forces involved.
After taking a bounce off the steel stairway, I ended up at the bottom of the landing and realized I was in a proper sidefall position, which saved my head from hitting and allowed me to take up the force of the fall over the whole length of my body. Had a hard time limping out of there, but to take a circular fall over the railing in a steel stairwell and not suffer any more than some bruises (both ego and flesh) has made me offer many thanks to the patience of Mr. Yonago.

Several years later I hit a perfect backfall off a warehouse roof (where I'd climbed up to watch a Bruce Lee movie showing at the drive-inn theater on my way home!) when the rafter that I thought I was going to use to swing myself lower to the ground before making the 15 foot jump turned out to be held in place by one nail on each end. I don't remember falling, but I do remember looking up, and once again realizing my head was tucked in, and both my arms were out in slap position - one on the sidewalk, the other over into the gravel driveway. It was a painfully long walk home, but again, thanks to ukemi, I was able to go home! (I hope I didn't cause too much trouble to whoever had to go nail that 2x4 back up )

I have over the years done lots of rolling falls on many different surfaces and have never developed the perfect circle necessary for not feeling any pain, but my brother used to enjoy showing his jumping falls on hardwood and concrete, and he told me much the same that has already been said by others here: You train on a surface that won't hurt you, but develop the ability to fall anywhere fate may take you, which means learning what it takes to fall on gravel, concrete or whatever. Personally my favorite is on a lawn, but to each his own.

One final point about a previous post mentioning rocks and glass etc... Yes, there's a real world out there, but training is not an infallible insurance policy that says you'll never suffer hurt from here on, it simply gives you a better chance to avoid some of lifes pitfalls, and when you can't, to survive them better!
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2004, 03:41 AM   #34
Abasan
Dojo: Aiki Shoshinkan, Aiki Kenkyukai
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 813
Malaysia
Offline
Re: Concrete Ukemi

Mmm... just a quick note:
I think its great we can train to the level where ukemi on hard surfaces are no problem. I still think that we should limit it though... pls read the soft breakfall thread to see an instance where a yudansha had great soft ukemi but in the long run actually injured his shoulder.

I believe we are training aikido as a path in our life time, not just for the few short years of our adulthood. So, we might as well take good care of our body. Constant unnecessary ukemi on hardsurfaces will hurt later...if not now.

Draw strength from stillness. Learn to act without acting. And never underestimate a samurai cat.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2004, 11:33 AM   #35
Lyle Laizure
 
Lyle Laizure's Avatar
Dojo: Hinode Dojo LLC
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 560
United_States
Offline
Re: Concrete Ukemi

Well Bronson I wouldn't call it smart-assiness just being an ass.

Lyle Laizure
www.hinodedojo.com
Deru kugi wa uta reru
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2004, 01:09 AM   #36
Bronson
 
Bronson's Avatar
Dojo: Seiwa Dojo and Southside Dojo
Location: Battle Creek & Kalamazoo, MI
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,677
Offline
Re: Concrete Ukemi

Quote:
Lyle Laizure wrote:
Well Bronson I wouldn't call it smart-assiness just being an ass.
I wish there was a smiley for that

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2005, 02:52 AM   #37
batemanb
 
batemanb's Avatar
Dojo: Seibukan Aikido UK
Location: body in UK, heart still in Japan
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,029
Offline
Re: Concrete Ukemi

I caught a program on TV last night called Jump Britain. It follows a group of guys practicing Parkour, these guys do some very impressive ukemi on concrete. It is a very impressive art, fluidity of movement with minimal effort, looks like something we try to achieve in Aikido albeit in a different paradigm .

If anyone wants to see some interesting videos demonstrating this stuff you can here

www.parkour.com

and here

www.le-parkour.com

I'm in agreement with the other "old boys" here, I've done it to try it, survived it but don't feel the need to do it unless I have to .


Regards

Bryan

A difficult problem is easily solved by asking yourself the question, "Just how would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2005, 04:59 AM   #38
eyrie
 
eyrie's Avatar
Location: Summerholm, Queensland
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,126
Australia
Offline
Re: Concrete Ukemi

You'll definitely need to modify your ukemi to suit the surface. I suggest trying practising at the beach first, in the soft sand first to get a feel first then try the hard wet stuff... :-) just as good as concrete if no better IMHO.

But you might want to learn this first:
http://www.fightingarts.com/reading/article.php?id=152

We were taught something similar in the army - with full battle order I might add....

Ignatius
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2005, 05:23 AM   #39
eyrie
 
eyrie's Avatar
Location: Summerholm, Queensland
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,126
Australia
Offline
Re: Concrete Ukemi

Quote:
Bryan Bateman wrote:
I caught a program on TV last night called Jump Britain. It follows a group of guys practicing Parkour, these guys do some very impressive ukemi on concrete. It is a very impressive art, fluidity of movement with minimal effort, looks like something we try to achieve in Aikido albeit in a different paradigm .

If anyone wants to see some interesting videos demonstrating this stuff you can here

www.parkour.com

and here

www.le-parkour.com

I'm in agreement with the other "old boys" here, I've done it to try it, survived it but don't feel the need to do it unless I have to .


Regards

Bryan

Thanks for the URL! What can I say? ******* AWESOME!

Who needs the SAS when you can have urban ninjas!

Last edited by eyrie : 01-07-2005 at 05:35 AM.

Ignatius
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2005, 04:42 PM   #40
Aiki LV
Dojo: VEGAS VALLEY AIKIDO
Location: Las Vegas/Henderson
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 73
United_States
Offline
Re: Concrete Ukemi

No offense, but if you don't have to do ukemi on concrete why would you? That's the first thought that comes to my mind? It seems to me that if our Sensei's thought we were going to be rolling on concrete we would train on it instead of mats. Just an opinion
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2005, 05:16 PM   #41
spinecracker
 
spinecracker's Avatar
Location: Reno, NV
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 65
United_States
Offline
Re: Concrete Ukemi

Ok, I now have a concrete (actually tarmac) ukemi story! You may have noticed on the news that Reno and Tahoe region, NV has had some pretty bad winter storms recently. There's a layer of ice and compacted snow on the road outside my house that is 6 inches thick. I was walking out the car on Tuesday when I slipped, my left leg shooting out straight ahead. Ah Hah! Time for a graceful ushiro ukemi. Well, it would have been if my right foot didn't get caught underneath me - grrrrr! now I have a bimalleolar fracture of my ankle being held together by pins and a plate. I won't be back on the mat for at least 12 weeks. I used to practice ukemi on concrete every so often to check my technique, but I wouldn't suggest it unless you are confident that you can do it without injuring yourself - or have a paramedic standing by! (now the pain meds are kicking in, I think I'll have a nap)
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2005, 05:59 PM   #42
stuartjvnorton
 
stuartjvnorton's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Shudokan
Location: Melbourne
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 225
Offline
Re: Concrete Ukemi

lol, I only tend to do it when I'm drunk and stupider than usual.
Then I remember the next day because my hip bone is a bit sore. ;-)
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2005, 02:31 AM   #43
Bronson
 
Bronson's Avatar
Dojo: Seiwa Dojo and Southside Dojo
Location: Battle Creek & Kalamazoo, MI
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,677
Offline
Re: Concrete Ukemi

Quote:
Stuart Norton wrote:
lol, I only tend to do it when I'm drunk and stupider than usual.
WOW...that's really drunk

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2005, 02:34 AM   #44
maikerus
Dojo: Roppongi Yoshinkan Aikido / Roppongi, Tokyo, Japan
Location: Tokyo
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 571
Japan
Offline
Re: Concrete Ukemi

Quote:
Bronson Diffin wrote:
WOW...that's really drunk

Bronson
And skillful if you can do it while drunk...now I know why ukemi practice is SO important

--Michael (confesses that he has also done this...sober even...just to see if he could)

Hiriki no yosei 3 - The kihon that makes your head ache instead of your legs
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Handmade Aikido Gifts - Handmade functional ceramic art with aikido themes



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ueshiba taking Ukemi Ellis Amdur General 200 03-27-2007 04:40 PM
What is good ukemi? Jerb Training 7 01-06-2007 05:29 AM
Personal Views on Ukemi mjchip Training 15 12-21-2006 07:25 PM
"Silent" Ukemi Jerb Training 11 12-20-2005 04:37 PM
ukemi on concrete jaxonbrown Techniques 32 04-24-2002 08:55 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:47 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate