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Old 12-08-2004, 08:00 PM   #26
Bill Danosky
 
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Re: Aikido Buddhists?

It's interesting, attempting to define a "religion". Buddhism is the one that answers the most questions for me, but it's highly conceptual compared to the other ones- With no God to be worshipped, I think many of it's concepts are not easily grasped by non-meditators.

I'm wondering how modern science explains some of the spooky concepts of physics and philosophy our fore fathers (okay, I'm talking about mainly O-Sensei here) believed in? Many of the sciences seem on the virge of proving "something" is at work.

Deepak Chopra, MD is described as being "Ayurvedic" in his beliefs, which is in India, kinda like Shinto is in Japan. An ancient religion, grasping the same concepts. But without the scientific terms to define them, resorting to creating icons, like the-spirit-of-this-and-that.

Anyway, He claims outright that since Quantum physicists now believe that subatomic particles are merely waves of information and energy, we could find out someday soon that all matter is non-material. Maybe all that's left after that would define religion.

Whatever we find out, someday (in this life or after) the truth really is, it'll probably seem most familiar to the people who meditate.
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Old 02-28-2005, 09:45 AM   #27
Justin Gaar
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Ki Symbol Re: Aikido Buddhists?

I follow the tibetan buddhism. Aikido for me is an extention of what i practice in buddhism. What i find interesting in aikido, is the aspect of using ki in practice. Albeit some styles don't center on Ki as much as others, but ki is always in use in some way or another.
Sincerely,
Justin Gaar
Quote:
= the life within all living beings
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Old 02-28-2005, 10:46 AM   #28
malsmith
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Re: Aikido Buddhists?

im reading a book right now, the quantum and the lotus, (im not buddhist, or any other religion) but its about buddhism and quatum physics and its really really interesting... a lot that they say about buddhism does remind me of things i learn through aikido

i also dont really think of buddhism as a religion.... i think its just a practice or lifestyle.
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Old 03-08-2005, 03:53 PM   #29
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Aikido Buddhists?

Quantum and the Lotus is an excellent book. I read it several years ago highly recommend it.
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Old 03-27-2005, 04:24 PM   #30
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Re: Aikido Buddhists?

Hi Im new to these forums so dont know if im just pointing out the obvious or if this will be of some help. I noticed the thread on buddhism and the bit about physics and decided I would have to become a member so I could contribute a bit as trying to link physics to religion is what Im studying.

The links between physics and eastern philosophy are quite astonishing, quantum mechanics has predicted the existence of a "sea of energy" or sea of light which is undetectable but exists everywhere and connects everything and everyone together. This is known as the electro-magnetic zero-pont field. Recent studies into the zero-point field have shown that matter is not solid, at its most fundamental level it is of the same substance as the zero-point field, concentrated energy. I only came across this through researching on the internet for a uni assignment, the zero-point field was discovered in the 50's but its only in the last ten years that its implications have been realised so it's not yet a widely studied theory, if anyone's interested there's a great article at

http://www.science-spirit.org/articl...article_id=126

The Field by Lynne McTaggart is a great introduction to connective physics
also the book The Tao of Physics by Fritjof Capra is quite good but a bit heavy on the physics if you haven't studied physics before!!

basically physics is now discovering what buddhism and taoism have been saying for over 2000 years. I think it also connects to panentheistic christianity, but thats just a personal opnion.

carolyn
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Old 03-27-2005, 06:45 PM   #31
kironin
 
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Re: Aikido Buddhists?

Quote:
Carolyn Scott wrote:
The Field by Lynne McTaggart is a great introduction to connective physics
also the book The Tao of Physics by Fritjof Capra is quite good but a bit heavy on the physics if you haven't studied physics before!!

basically physics is now discovering what buddhism and taoism have been saying for over 2000 years. I think it also connects to panentheistic christianity, but thats just a personal opnion.
carolyn

The links between physics and eastern philosophy are quite superficial. The Tao of Physics was torched by physicists a long time ago for making connections that just simply don't exist between the standard theory of physics and a particular religious philosophy. Unfortunately, The Field is just even more of the same nonsense. If you want to believe that, I am sure she will be happy to make some money off you teaching you all things paranormal in her intensives.

And yes, I have played with the equations. Sometimes we scientists are our own worst enemies in choosing cute or catchy names for things that need very careful definitions.

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Old 03-27-2005, 09:23 PM   #32
Charles Hill
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Re: Aikido Buddhists?

Hi Carolyn,

Welcome to the forum. Don`t mind Craig, he`s a bit grumpy sometimes. What is panetheistic Christianity? I have never heard of it. I think that you would really like Wendy Palmer`s book, "The Intuitive Body." It is not at all scientific (a plus in my eyes) but deals a lot with "the field," especially in terms of Aikido and Buddhism.

Charles
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Old 03-28-2005, 10:59 AM   #33
kironin
 
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Re: Aikido Buddhists?

it's only the crackpots that are out there hawking their latest greatest "scientific" basis for their religion and selling books that propagate nonsense memes, that make me grumpy.

Given how many gullible people love to believe this nonsense and buy the books full of it, my attachment leads to much suffering

otherwise, a little meditation and I am a happy compassionate kind of guy.

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Old 03-28-2005, 07:46 PM   #34
carolyn
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Re: Aikido Buddhists?

Isn't it true though that you can not disprove the existence of the zeropoint field? And quantum mechanics does suggest that we are all connected and that matter is non material.

I am aware that the tao of physics has been regarded as junk by most physicists but it has a place in my heart as it was my introduction to buddhism. Even if what its saying isnt completely correct reading it made me realise that there is still a lot to be discovered in physics and quantum mechanics is a one step closer towards destroying the centuries old view that physics completely contradicts religion. It certainly helped me see things from a different perspective and a knowledge of quantum mechanics has helped me understand eastern philosophy.

It appears to me that in our society today (in Scotland anyway) more and more people are completely non religous and think that spirituality is a fairy tale, mainly because empirical knowledge is regarded as the ultimate knowledge and science can 'apparently' answer all our "big questions". Now physics is reaching a stage where religion could exist in its model of reality and to me this is an exciting prospect.

I'm only just learning about all of this and dont yet know enough about it all but all id say is that the field was very enjoyable to read. Even if it is fantasy the work done by haisch and ruedo seems to be pretty exciting. I'll let u know when i finish my degree in physics :-)

carolyn
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Old 03-29-2005, 01:29 PM   #35
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Aikido Buddhists?

Not sure if physics can ever explain religion. Your post equates religion and spirituality as synonmous. I don't think they necessarily are. Certainly there is a link. Many people fulfill there spirituality needs through religion, but I feel that there are many other ways as well to be spiritual yet not religious. (a-religous).

One thing I have found about physics is that quantum physics has seemed to confirm that there are many things that we do not yet know about. Not sure if physics will ultimately answer all questions about exsistence or origin of life, but it certainly leaves room for thought and possibility.

For me, and many others, what is most spiritual is discovering and playing with the idea and concept that all things are interconnected in life through a common thread or energy. Trying to tap into this wave and achieve an understanding of it or at least a glimpse of it is what is most important and is what represents a spritiual quest. Maybe if we can understand and embrace this we have a hope for harmony and peace.

While physics may not ultimately prove or define the origin of the universe, it certainly has the same goal in many respects of many who are seeking to understand the way the world works-scientifically or spiritually.

Hope this makes sense.
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Old 04-23-2005, 12:13 PM   #36
Krista DeCoste
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Re: Aikido Buddhists?

Hi. I'm also fascinated with the connection between physics/cosmology and spirit however my scientific background is confined to one interdisciplinary class on Science and Christianity and a few National Geographic articles. It's good to hear of others exploring this connection.

On the point of Buddhism, I've been drawn to it for a while and since I started Aikido the pull is stronger. I also practice shamanic journeying and find this pursuit of self awareness and healing in connection to the universe has led me to Aikido.

I have one question. Can anyone help me understand the difference between Tibetan Buddhism and Zen? I
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Old 04-23-2005, 07:53 PM   #37
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Re: Aikido Buddhists?

Quote:
Krista DeCoste wrote:
Can anyone help me understand the difference between Tibetan Buddhism and Zen? I
Beside Tibetan Buddhism being from Tibet with a strong tradition of literature and study and Zen being from Japan and often focuses almost entirely on the experiential?

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 04-24-2005, 04:26 PM   #38
Jake Karlins
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Re: Aikido Buddhists?

I think it's probably impossible to cover differences between the different kinds of Tibetan Buddhism(4 main schools, I think, Nyingma, Gelug, Kagyu, one other), and the different kinds of Zen buddhism (Rinzai, Soto, others too?). For Tibetan buddhism, I think "The Tibetan Book of Living And Dying" is good, by Sogyal Rinpoche. The Dalai Lama has written numerous books, so has Pema Chodron. Both are Buddhists from Tibetan lineages. As far as Zen, I've heard Zen Mind Beginner's Mind, by Suzuki is good, but I haven't read it. And, f course, if you can get to a good library, I'm sure there are books that cover history and culture of Tibetan and Zen buddhism in a more organized (dry) fashion.
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Old 04-24-2005, 05:16 PM   #39
Krista DeCoste
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Re: Aikido Buddhists?

Thanks for the basic distinctions.I knew they wouldn't be simple to explain but the experiential vs. study and literature is a start. I guess I'll have to do some serious reading. Thanks for the suggestions on readings. I have read a book on meditation by Sogyal Rinpoche and a few articles by Pema Chodron but nothing on Zen. I'll be visiting the library soon.
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Old 04-25-2005, 12:26 AM   #40
Nathan Gusdorf
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Re: Aikido Buddhists?

Matter is basically highly highly compressed energy. This is how anti-matter is created in particle accelerators. an individual particle is accelerated to near the speed of light and is crashed into a stationary block of matter. There is so much energy from this collison that a particle and an anti-particle are made. To me this does not prove anythign. Rather, it proves what we cannot prove. It proves to me that we cannot dismiss the idea of ki as simple mysticism and that many things are possible. I am simply saying it opens the door to a realm of possibilty, it does not prove that I can learn how to levitate my dog.

And I think spirituality and religion are very different. Spirituality is whatever brings you to a higher place, so to speak. religion can be a means to achieve spirituality or it can be a means to manipulate people. I go to a Jewish camp over the summer and even though what we do is not as religiously observant as say Orthodox Judaism, i find it very spiritual. I think meditation and Aikido can be very spiritual. I think that a lot of western religions lose a lot of spirituality and become institutions designed to control people and often start wars.
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Old 04-25-2005, 02:23 AM   #41
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Re: Aikido Buddhists?

Quote:
Nathan Gusdorf wrote:
Matter is basically highly highly compressed energy. This is how anti-matter is created in particle accelerators. an individual particle is accelerated to near the speed of light and is crashed into a stationary block of matter. There is so much energy from this collison that a particle and an anti-particle are made. To me this does not prove anythign. Rather, it proves what we cannot prove. It proves to me that we cannot dismiss the idea of ki as simple mysticism and that many things are possible. I am simply saying it opens the door to a realm of possibilty, it does not prove that I can learn how to levitate my dog.
.
not only can you not levitate your dog, but this proves you don't understand what you are talking about.

oops, being grumpy again.

when you define what you mean by the "idea of ki", then it might be possible to comment on whether what you are thinking about is mysticism or not.

If String theory ever does become the succesful theory that unifies everything, the large scale of gravity and the small scale of the Electroweak and Strong forces, it's unlikely that anything like the concept of Ki will be needed to flesh out that final equation.

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Old 04-25-2005, 03:00 AM   #42
Joe Bowen
 
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Re: Aikido Buddhists?

Quote:
Lynn Seiser wrote:
Beside Tibetan Buddhism being from Tibet with a strong tradition of literature and study and Zen being from Japan and often focuses almost entirely on the experiential?
To be fair, Lynn, this is a gross oversimplification. All schools of Buddhism incorporate rigorous physical meditative (experiential) practice. True, Tibetan Buddhism proves a more dogmatic orientation and relies on heavily on the literature and ritual set down over the centuries, but practically speaking Zen does this as well. Otherwise, why would Zen folks recite (chant) the Heart Sutra, or "meditate" on Koans etc, etc. And, truth be told Zen Buddhism doesn't come solely from Japan. Zen Buddhism started as Chan Buddhism in China, spread to Sen (sp?) Buddhism in Korea and made its way to Japan where it was pronounced Zen. The Japanese Zen Buddhism is the more well-known version, as it was most likely the Japanese that introduced westerners to the Religion. However, bear in mind that most of the Zen Masters that people quote (like Dogen) are in fact Chinese Monks (not that this is really that important).
I would also disagree with the statement that someone made very early on in this thread that Buddhism has no inherent ethical standard of conduct. If you look at the 4 Noble Truths and the Eight-fold path you will find an inherent ethical standard, particularly when you are talking about the Right-practice and Right-mindedness.
Zen Buddhists don't ignore these either. The practice of Zen is solidly laid on the foundations of the 4 Noble Truths....
A good reference for those that are interested is "The Compass of Zen", which is a compilation of lectures and writings from a Korean Zen Master, Seoung Sa Sunim. It is edited by one of his American Students, Hwa-Gak Sunim. The first portion is pretty interesting as it explains Seoung Sa Sunim's interpretation of the evolutions of the different schools of Buddhism. Really good stuff.
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Old 04-25-2005, 05:04 PM   #43
Nathan Gusdorf
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Re: Aikido Buddhists?

Craig-

You're right- I don't know what I am talking about, however I have looked into the issue beyond reading Angels & Demons by Dan Brown. By Ki I simply mean the idea of being able to affect energy in a less direct way than actually moving something with your hands for example. I do not have an extensive knowledge of everything people believe about in eastern religions, however I understand ki to be a kind of energy that we can focus. I would be glad if you woudl tell me where I was incorrect on the physics part. Especially the anti-matter part because I thought that was right. I don't know enough about eastern religions or quantum physics to really be able to do a deep analysis of the two. I do however think that there is some common ground. For example, (Don't jump on me if I make a mistake here) physics does not only deal with matter but also with energy. If something does not have mass and its moving energy then to me the idea does not seem too far fetched that we can somehow affect this energy.

I am very much a science person and I'm not a big fan of many religions. One of the reasons I like eastern religions is that they seem more spiritual than our western ones and involved things other than simple prayer. Meditation is very beneficial for example.

I am not someone whos out to distort physics to promote a personal agenda. I have my own concept of what ki really is and if I am misinterpreting a physics concept then please correct me. I understand your frustration at having people misinterpret or abuse science for personal gain or to justify an unjustifiable belief, however I am not one of these people. I would be interested to hear your point of view on the topic beyond your criticisms of other people's theories.
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