Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-05-2004, 10:56 AM   #51
PeaceHeather
Dojo: hopefully Purdue Aikido Club
Location: Indiana
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 158
United_States
Offline
Re: Emotions on the mat

Positive things...

I've gotten responses, plural, from not one but two people from this club. In addition to the "cool, come on over" kind of response, I asked about questions and so on, and received this:

Quote:
You'll get tired of us. We are all undisciplined blabbermouths here.
Thankfully we have Wendy Whited Sensei to relegate the difficult
questions to and she never leaves anyone out in the cold, even the most
stupid of us have a proof of that . So, you are covered, I hope.
So there we are.

Wendy is a 6th-dan from Illinois, who accepts the Purdue club when they do road trips up to her dojo, conducts the testing for the dojo, and so forth.

Heather
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2004, 11:20 AM   #52
MaryKaye
Dojo: Seattle Ki Society
Location: Seattle
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 522
Offline
Re: Emotions on the mat

I would think that the #1 prerequisite for a teaching style that involves pushing people into things they fear is a very carefully honed knowledge of the student's actual capabilities, so that you push them to do things they *can* do and build their confidence. If the teacher pushes the student to do things they can't do and they get hurt it's completely counterproductive.

My sensei called me up Monday night and said, "Let's try something new. Ushiro dori at speed, please." I was apprehensive, because I'd never tried taking a completely unknown throw at speed before; but he was right, I could. Afterwards he said that he'd been watching my ukemi carefully and knew that I was up for it. It was a great experience, very exhilirating.

For me personally, if I don't feel the kind of trust that let me make that attack even though I was scared of what might happen, I can't really commit to practice and might as well not bother.

Mary Kaye
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2004, 11:35 AM   #53
PeaceHeather
Dojo: hopefully Purdue Aikido Club
Location: Indiana
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 158
United_States
Offline
Re: Emotions on the mat

Quote:
MaryKaye wrote:
For me personally, if I don't feel the kind of trust that let me make that attack even though I was scared of what might happen, I can't really commit to practice and might as well not bother.
I agree with your statement -- and that's exactly why I'm questioning myself.

I *do* have trust issues. It takes courage for me to come onto the mat. Something like what happened, however minor (in the sense that I'm a little stiff but not broken or anything), really throws me off-balance mentally and emotionally.

If you were a sensei, and had a student who was struggling with stuff like this, how would you push them in this area? How would you test them? Is this just a test gone wrong?

Heather
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2004, 07:09 PM   #54
PeaceHeather
Dojo: hopefully Purdue Aikido Club
Location: Indiana
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 158
United_States
Offline
Re: Emotions on the mat

Well, just got back from observing the aikido club... and I was able to ask lots of questions and get answers that satisfied me for the most part.

So, probably this Monday, or else Mon. the 17th I'll start -- they're located in the campus sports center, and there's a membership fee there that is broken down by semester. No sense paying $40 for spring semester, when it ends in two weeks.

In short, they're willing to go as slow as I need, and their lead student expressed an interest in doing more with ki exercises over the summer, too.

This could be good.
Heather, hopeful
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2004, 11:45 PM   #55
Largo
Dojo: Aikikai Dobunkan/ Icho Ryu Aikijujutsu
Location: Indiana
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 247
United_States
Offline
Re: Emotions on the mat

I'm glad you're out of there. It is one thing to test someone's reaction to surprise, but they should at least have the tools and the possiblity of handling the test. It doesn't take much skill to do something to someone who isn't experienced.

p.s.It's usually a good idea to stay away from people who call themselves 'soke'. (check out koryu or furyu.com if you want some backround on the term)
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2004, 08:56 AM   #56
PeaceHeather
Dojo: hopefully Purdue Aikido Club
Location: Indiana
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 158
United_States
Offline
Re: Emotions on the mat

I've gotten emails and privte messages about that, and I agree. It's a shame, because I think he actually does know pretty good aikido. All of his students are good people. Honestly, annoying as the whole "10th dan/soke" thing is, I could care less about that; it's his personality specifically that believes that his behavior was not only acceptable, but not open to question.

Heather
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2004, 10:05 AM   #57
Peter Goldsbury
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Peter Goldsbury's Avatar
Dojo: Hiroshima Kokusai Dojo
Location: Hiroshima, Japan
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,997
Japan
Offline
Re: Emotions on the mat

Quote:
PeaceHeather wrote:
Hi all,

I'm not sure whether to put this in the Training thread, the Spirituality Thread, or what, so I'm putting it here.

I can't believe how worked up I am getting over attending my next aikido lesson. I am really scared! Last week was frightening, but I managed, although I was nauseous from the rolls (yes, sensei DID let me stop whenever I needed to), in tears at one point for no definite reason, and so on.

Tonight, my lesson will be with Soke instead of the student Senseis who teach on Wednesdays, and I am so intimidated by that thought that I can hardly think straight.

Does anyone else ever encounter this? Er, I should rephrase - I'm sure I'm not the only one who goes through this, but I need some reassurance now. What emotions come up on the mat for you, personally; how do you deal with them?

It's hard to remember "compassion" and "serenity" when you're stuck in "OH MY GOD I"M GONNA DIE".

Help.
Heather
Hello Heather,

I have a very basic question. Why are you doing aikido? Is it for self-defence, or to make yourself stronger?

I was once a beginner like you are, and I often wondered whether I would get through the next lesson. My initial classes were just like learning to ride a motorbike: sheer panic. But you get through the initial lessons. You survive, and feel good and take the next lesson and the next etc.

Looking at yourr subsequent posts, I think you have no grounds whatever for questioning the way your teacher did the techniques when you were uke. If clothes-lining irimi nage is the rule in your dojo, then you take ukemi fron clothes-lining irimi-nage, or find another dojo.

In my own dojo there is a lady who has been training regularly for the last two years. She is about 50, is divorced, and has an autistic son, whom she brings to the dojo. He sits and watches his mother training. As the chief instructor I regularly ask her to take ukemi, when I instruct in our basic classes. But I also have an eye to her training and occasionally deliberately do techniques for which she has never learned ukemi. She does the ukemi very well, but I can see that she wonders quite how she managed.

I have never clothes-lined this student from irimi-nage, but if I did, as her teacher I think she could take the ukemi: it is my call. But I am her teacher and I am deliberately trying to take her to a level beyond which she thinks she is capable of. Often she fails, but occasionally she achieves it—and then there is a joy that keeps her coming back for more.

At the beginner level in aikido, you have to persuade your body to accept the mat and your partners: it is that simple. If you do not, you cannot progress.

Best regards, and feel free to PM me if you think it appropriate,

P A Goldsbury
_______________________
Hiroshima, Japan
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2004, 11:22 AM   #58
Sue Trinidad
Dojo: Island Aikido
Location: Bainbridge Island, WA
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 41
United_States
Offline
Re: Emotions on the mat

Quote:
Peter Goldsbury wrote:

I have never clothes-lined this student from irimi-nage, but if I did, as her teacher I think she could take the ukemi: it is my call. But I am her teacher and I am deliberately trying to take her to a level beyond which she thinks she is capable of. Often she fails, but occasionally she achieves it—and then there is a joy that keeps her coming back for more.

At the beginner level in aikido, you have to persuade your body to accept the mat and your partners: it is that simple. If you do not, you cannot progress.
So--a question from another newbie (hi, Heather!!): what is the new student's responsibility for self-protection?

I have been a rowing coach for a long time. I have also done a fair amount of rock-climbing. (In climbing there is a saying that if you're not falling, you're not trying.) So I understand that it's the teacher's/coach's responsibility to guide the learning process, which may sometimes involve pushing the student beyond what she thinks she can do. (And of course the student should inform the teacher if s/he has injuries, and the teacher should have some idea of the student's capabilities, etc. etc.)

All that said. . . if, as a newbie, you really believe that you will injure yourself if you do what sensei or sempai are asking you to do, then what?

I realize there may not be a black-and-white answer to this, and it hasn't come up for me (in any of the whopping 3 classes I've been to, lol). . . but now I am wondering. Experienced people, any thoughts?

Thanks.

Sue
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2004, 11:38 AM   #59
giriasis
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Florida
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 819
United_States
Offline
Re: Emotions on the mat

Heather, this is what I was afraid would happen when I made my initial post on this thread. I'm so glad you are out of there. I have had a similar experience in a 10th dan/soke type school. There was no concept in the protection of its beginners. I was thrown into breakfalls in my second class which caused a major mental block for me and it has taken me a long time to get over that. You should not have been treated that way and you should not be expected to surrender what you feel is right or to surrender your inituition or common sense in order to practice a martial art. Aikido IS right for you, not just this instructor.

Anne Marie Giri
Women in Aikido: a place where us gals can come together and chat about aikido.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2004, 11:56 AM   #60
GaiaM
Dojo: Bend Aiki Martial Arts
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 92
United_States
Offline
Re: Emotions on the mat

Sue,
If you really think you are going to be hurt by ANYTHING that goes on in the dojo you should stop doing it! In my opinion, staying safe should be the first priority of everyone, especially your sensei. Our sensei always reminds us that we should always speak up if anyone is going to get hurt. That said, hopefully you trust your sensei to make some decisions for you about what you are ready to do. When I get called up for ukemi I never know how Sensei is going to throw me. I trust him enough to know that he won't choose a technique I am not ready for. However, I might take an awkward fall or not respond the way he would like me to. These are valuable learning experiences that can only happen if I trust and give as much as I can to following his technique. So... don't let yourself get hurt, but try to have enough trust to let your sensei and your fellow students push you to your limit.
Good luck!
Gaia

___________
Gaia Marrs
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2004, 11:59 AM   #61
Jeanne Shepard
 
Jeanne Shepard's Avatar
Dojo: Puget Sound Aikikai
Location: Seattle
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 351
Offline
Re: Emotions on the mat

Back when I was learning to ride horses, it seemed that the prevailing teaching philosophy was "whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger." As a result, I jumped alot of fences that I wasn't ready for, and my body learned to react in fear. (I knew people who resorted to abusing substances to deal with the fear, especially during competitions.)It's taken me years to start getting that out of me, in every new activity I do, including Aikido.
Its a shame, there are much better ways to learn.

Jeanne
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2004, 12:13 PM   #62
PeaceHeather
Dojo: hopefully Purdue Aikido Club
Location: Indiana
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 158
United_States
Offline
Re: Emotions on the mat

Quote:
Looking at yourr subsequent posts, I think you have no grounds whatever for questioning the way your teacher did the techniques when you were uke.
Well, let's see.

I am recovering from a back/hip injury. He knew this.

I have not been taught *any* ukemi. I have begun to forward roll, and could probably still count the total number of rolls I've done on one hand; but I have zero experience with breakfalls of any type. He knew this also.

This sensei did not explain the technique he was about to perform, and I had no warning it was coming. Up to this point, our entire class had been devoted to static, slow-motion, ki exercises. I landed hard, shocked, and frightened.

I agree, if this were the standard form of performing irimi nage in this class, then it would make perfect sense for me to accept that technique, perform it, and take uke for it. However, he was demonstrating a "street attack". Which is to say, I did not begin an attack, to which he responded with a nage and I took ukemi. I was walking back and forth across the mat while he talked to the class, and then he clotheslined me.

You know how, in class, sensei demonstrates a technique and then the rest of the class practices it? The rest of the class did not practice this. I'm still not completely sure why he did it, since afterward we all went right back to static, slow-motion, ki exercises.

The next day I called him to ask about this, and in between being called "young lady" and "hon", which I find patronizing considering I haven't been called those things since I was ten, he insisted that aikido (not his dojo or his instruction, *aikido*)was not the art for me and that he wasn't going to train me if I were going to keep calling "all the time". For the record, I've phoned him three times; the first two were to set up a time to visit the dojo for the first time, and this was the third.

Finally, in the time I have been observing lessons, working up the nerve to get on the mat, I have never once seen him use a white-belt as his uke when demonstrating a technique. This was the last of my preliminary free "try it and see" lessons, so technically I'm not even a white-belt yet. There was no reason for me to suspect that he would do this to me.

I ask questions in order to learn, and in order to protect my safety. As a student I have a right and a responsibility to ask questions whenever I'm unsure of something. I also have a right to expect an honest answer -- not to be interrupted before I can finish my question, not to be cut off any time I try to offer an explanation, not to be belittled, and not to be hung up on after being treated in that way.

Even assuming that I didn't have the "grounds" to question this incident, I still have every right to be treated with respect by my instructor. If there is no respect, then there is no trust, and if there is no trust, there is no point in practicing with that instructor.

Yes, as an instructor, you want to push your students to grow -- but don't you also work very hard to know their abilities, and to push them only in ways that you are certain they can accommodate?

This guy didn't.
Heather

Last edited by PeaceHeather : 05-06-2004 at 12:26 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2004, 12:21 PM   #63
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
Offline
Re: Emotions on the mat

Having had the opportunity to be on the mat in one of Peter's classes, I think I can safely say that there is a world of difference between Peter and this other 'gentleman'.

Frankly, I would trust Peter with my life, and that's after taking ukemi from him only 2 or three times 2 years ago.

I wouldn't even step on the mat with this other 'gentleman'.

Ron (once trust is broken...its awfully hard to recover...maybe impossible)

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2004, 12:22 PM   #64
PeaceHeather
Dojo: hopefully Purdue Aikido Club
Location: Indiana
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 158
United_States
Offline
Re: Emotions on the mat

Quote:
GaiaTS wrote:
When I get called up for ukemi I never know how Sensei is going to throw me. I trust him enough to know that he won't choose a technique I am not ready for.
And has your instructor worked to build that trust?

There are people posting here who have described needing to work through several lessons, with many many partners, in order to have the courage to be touched, not just to take ukemi when their partner performs nage. Their partners and their senseis were willing to work with them to build that trust.

Heather
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2004, 12:24 PM   #65
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
Offline
Re: Emotions on the mat

I don't like tyrants and fakes, and that ain't what it takes to love me...ummmm hmmmm.....

RT

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2004, 01:43 PM   #66
Nick Simpson
Dojo: White Rose Aikido - Durham University
Location: Gateshead
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 916
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Emotions on the mat

That should be on a t-shirt Ron
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2004, 02:32 PM   #67
drDalek
 
drDalek's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 155
Offline
Re: Emotions on the mat

Quote:
PeaceHeather wrote:
Well, let's see.

<stuff about abusive teacher>

This guy didn't.
Heather
Someone who calls himself a "soke" of something is 110% of the time BAD NEWS. Go around to SEVERAL different Aikido places, look for the one where the instructor both looks the most relaxed and the students look the most "worn out but happy". Train there until you have a couple of gradings under your belt, then go back and squeegee Soke Clothesline's mat with his face.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2004, 05:42 PM   #68
Peter Goldsbury
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Peter Goldsbury's Avatar
Dojo: Hiroshima Kokusai Dojo
Location: Hiroshima, Japan
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,997
Japan
Offline
Re: Emotions on the mat

Quote:
PeaceHeather wrote:
Well, let's see.

I am recovering from a back/hip injury. He knew this.

I have not been taught *any* ukemi. I have begun to forward roll, and could probably still count the total number of rolls I've done on one hand; but I have zero experience with breakfalls of any type. He knew this also.

This sensei did not explain the technique he was about to perform, and I had no warning it was coming. Up to this point, our entire class had been devoted to static, slow-motion, ki exercises. I landed hard, shocked, and frightened.

I agree, if this were the standard form of performing irimi nage in this class, then it would make perfect sense for me to accept that technique, perform it, and take uke for it. However, he was demonstrating a "street attack". Which is to say, I did not begin an attack, to which he responded with a nage and I took ukemi. I was walking back and forth across the mat while he talked to the class, and then he clotheslined me.

You know how, in class, sensei demonstrates a technique and then the rest of the class practices it? The rest of the class did not practice this. I'm still not completely sure why he did it, since afterward we all went right back to static, slow-motion, ki exercises.

The next day I called him to ask about this, and in between being called "young lady" and "hon", which I find patronizing considering I haven't been called those things since I was ten, he insisted that aikido (not his dojo or his instruction, *aikido*)was not the art for me and that he wasn't going to train me if I were going to keep calling "all the time". For the record, I've phoned him three times; the first two were to set up a time to visit the dojo for the first time, and this was the third.

Finally, in the time I have been observing lessons, working up the nerve to get on the mat, I have never once seen him use a white-belt as his uke when demonstrating a technique. This was the last of my preliminary free "try it and see" lessons, so technically I'm not even a white-belt yet. There was no reason for me to suspect that he would do this to me.

I ask questions in order to learn, and in order to protect my safety. As a student I have a right and a responsibility to ask questions whenever I'm unsure of something. I also have a right to expect an honest answer -- not to be interrupted before I can finish my question, not to be cut off any time I try to offer an explanation, not to be belittled, and not to be hung up on after being treated in that way.

Even assuming that I didn't have the "grounds" to question this incident, I still have every right to be treated with respect by my instructor. If there is no respect, then there is no trust, and if there is no trust, there is no point in practicing with that instructor.

Yes, as an instructor, you want to push your students to grow -- but don't you also work very hard to know their abilities, and to push them only in ways that you are certain they can accommodate?

This guy didn't.
Heather
Hello Heather,

My apologies.

I was assuming that your instructor was simply tough; your last post (quoted above) makes your situation somewhat clearer—and if I were you, I would find another dojo.

In my own dojo we spend about 20-30 minutes each class on ukemi (rolls, not breakfalls) before doing techniques and the entire class does this, even the dan holders. The student I mentioned earlier has just passed her 3rd kyu test, but still does not do breakfalls. She will learn breakfalls later on, along with koshi-nage. In addition, any student, white belt or black belt, can be called upon to be uke.

I have been living in Japan for the last 20 years or so and I do not know whether this is normal in the US. The last time I practised in the US was in 2002 at the Aiki Expo. I taught some techniques requiring breakfalls on that occasion, but I was a visiting instructor and made a judgment based on a variety of factors, but partly on watching other classes. However, one participant e-mailed me afterwards asking how to practise such ukemi: he had never learned to do it in his own dojo.

I think correct ukemi is crucial in aikido and there are some very good videos available. Those by Bruce Bookman and Donovan Waite come to mind, but I think these should be used to supplement regular ukemi training in one's own dojo—they should not be a substitute for this.

There are several important factors in training. Aikido is an encounter between two or more people and all should emerge from the encounter enriched as a result. I think it is the instructor's duty to give students a vision beyond what they feel capable of—and help them to achieve it. Of course, there is also a major duty of care, which the students have also.

Best regards,

P A Goldsbury
_______________________
Hiroshima, Japan
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2004, 06:20 PM   #69
PeaceHeather
Dojo: hopefully Purdue Aikido Club
Location: Indiana
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 158
United_States
Offline
Re: Emotions on the mat

Quote:
drDalek wrote:
Someone who calls himself a "soke" of something is 110% of the time BAD NEWS. Go around to SEVERAL different Aikido places, look for the one where the instructor both looks the most relaxed and the students look the most "worn out but happy". Train there until you have a couple of gradings under your belt, then go back and squeegee Soke Clothesline's mat with his face.
Well, squeegee-nage is one approach...

I'm about to say something that may get me a ton of flack from all of you who have offered me such support. I had to do it, though.

I went back to the dojo tonight to talk to the teacher. I apologized and offered to pay the dues to officially join the dojo.

Now, before you all go "What?!?! let me explain. ("No, no, is too much. Let me sum up.")

Peter's post got me thinking, and shook me out of the place from which I had been thinking, reacting, and approaching this entire situation. The whole point was that he did something, probably inappropriate, and that I reacted with fear. But then I questioned him, less out of self-respect and a desire to learn than from fear -- and then he definitely responded to me inappropriately.

I realized that I was giving him too much power in this situation, and that rather than trying to blend, I was trying to oppose, overcome, run away, prove myself right and him wrong, and so on and so on. I'm not saying that any of those reactions or desires was wrong, necessarily, but when I let myself become quiet and examine the way I was going about them, I saw that things didn't feel quite right. None of the possible approaches felt right to me inside, because none of the consequences looked like they would really lead to growth for either him or me.

Once I understood that, I understood that I couldn't just leave things as they were. I wouldn't be able to go to another dojo without having the ghost of this one following me in some way.

I kept sitting there feeling like I had something to prove to him, and it occurred to me that maybe I needed to prove something to myself as well.

Could it be possible that I had, in fear, jumped to a wrong conclusion about the original event itself? Could it be that I was falling into an old pattern from my days as "verbal abuse uke"? Could it be that I could go onto the mat, knowing the fear was there and face it honestly? Could I bring myself to trust this person again, if only long enough to grant him a second chance? At the very least, could I let go of the negative and allow myself to see anything positive in this person, in this situation, and respond to that instead of the negative? Could I do all those things without relinquishing my sense of self-respect and personal power?

Sitting quietly, searching deeply, I realized the answer to all these questions was yes.

The thing that hurt most about the phone call I made to question his motives was that he responded as if he believed I was somehow weak -- or at least, that's how it felt to me; I kept wanting to prove him wrong. After looking at all the possible options, I discovered that only one would really conclusively do that -- and it would also help prove to myself as well that I wasn't weak.

For me, facing fear is one of the things that aikido is about, and by offering him a second chance from the right place, I could not only face that fear -- being vulnerable on purpose is scary! -- I could better handle any of his possible reactions. After all, no matter what he said, I could take comfort in the knowledge that I had the high ground and was the bigger person.

For those of you fearing for my personal safety, I'll say that he still said no. He's not going to take me back as a student. But I think he sees me now in a completely different light -- my approach made all the difference in the word to his response. Best of all, the ghost of this experience will no longer be able to follow me on my path to the next dojo.

I still think he's wrong about a few things (that I can't do aikido because of my back problems, mainly), but I no longer feel that I have anything to prove to him; I know the truth for myself, and that is enough.

I have to leave for dinner, so I'll end this post here without adding more detail. Suffice to say I've made peace with the incident tonight, and grown in a way that fits with my understanding of aikido, and that feels right to me on all levels.

Peace!
Heather
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2004, 09:30 PM   #70
Largo
Dojo: Aikikai Dobunkan/ Icho Ryu Aikijujutsu
Location: Indiana
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 247
United_States
Offline
Re: Emotions on the mat

Facing your fears is fine, and it is something that all martial arts are about. However, I have to disagree with your teacher's style. I have never been suddenly `clotheslined` by my sensei, and I am a shodan. He has pushed me, but in every situation there has been a possiblity of success (i.e. taking the ukemi, etc safely). I cannot imagine taking a begninner and using them as a demonstration of an irimi-nage. If you read reports on deaths due to training, they mainly stem from imrimi-nage and shihonage. They are dangerous techniques if the proper ukemi isn't taken.

As far as the soke bit goes, it's pretty much a sign that he is a fraud. A soke is an inheretor/ owner of a style or way of doing things. It's similar to owning a patent. If he is truely the soke of aikido, then he could rightfully charge anyone who uses a nikyo or who teaches it a royalty fee, or force them to stop teaching. (this is more applicable to a soke of a sake brewing style, where recipies and such are more trademarkable, but the level of authority still applies).
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2004, 11:24 PM   #71
Jeanne Shepard
 
Jeanne Shepard's Avatar
Dojo: Puget Sound Aikikai
Location: Seattle
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 351
Offline
Re: Emotions on the mat

I give you credit for facing your fears, but I agree, he has some deficits as a teacher, and its at least a 50-50 proposition.

Jeanne
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2004, 03:08 AM   #72
Nick Simpson
Dojo: White Rose Aikido - Durham University
Location: Gateshead
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 916
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Emotions on the mat

Yep, credit due for facing your fears Heather, but it still doesnt solve the problem that the guy is definately a knob jockey and very possibly a fraud. His aikido might be good but he isnt a legitimate tenth dan/soke, if he was his aikido would be on a par with Shioda sensei, Tohei sensei or at least any of the merely 7th dan Shihan...
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2004, 05:02 AM   #73
angel_joanna20
Dojo: Częstochowa Aikikai
Location: Częstochowa
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3
Poland
Offline
Re: Emotions on the mat

hi !
Well, I just started to train aikido.My first lesson was incredible for me.I was very nervous,I didn't understand many things.After a few lessons i started to understand some things.I hope that one day aikido will help me find my own path.
Regard Joanna
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2004, 06:29 AM   #74
GaiaM
Dojo: Bend Aiki Martial Arts
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 92
United_States
Offline
Re: Emotions on the mat

Heather,
I'm glad you feel good about confronting your fears but mostly I'm just glad that you're out of that dojo. Regardless of title/fraud, etc... no teacher should be treating a student that way.
To answer your question (would someone please explain to me how to quote previous messages???):
Yes. My sensei has absolutely earned the trust I give him. I think I trust him more than just about anyone. He is incredibly perceptive and knows his students well. If your teacher doesn't deserved your trust, by all means don't give it to them. But find another place to train...
Best!
Gaia

___________
Gaia Marrs
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2004, 06:51 AM   #75
Robert Jackson
Dojo: seishinkan
Location: Texas City.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 133
Offline
Re: Emotions on the mat

Quote:
(would someone please explain to me how to quote previous messages???):
It could be rather simple... highlight what you want to quote and copy it (ctrl-C or right click copy) and in your message either click the icon that look like a talk bubble or type {QUOTE] expect both brackets need to be square then past (CTRL-V or rick click paste) hit the icon thingy again or type {/QUOTE] again both brackets need be square...
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Aikido DVDs and Video Downloads - by George Ledyard Sensei & other great teachers from AikidoDVDS.Com



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Falling in love with Sensei Janet5 Anonymous 143 05-08-2013 07:15 PM
Article: AikiSolutions: Blending with Negative Emotions and Thoughts by Lynn Seiser AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 0 07-20-2006 03:32 PM
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Env sushil_yadav Open Discussions 4 09-06-2005 03:23 PM
Role of emotions PhilJ General 19 07-15-2003 11:10 AM
Poll: Is feeling fear in your everyday aikido class a good way to grow? AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 21 04-16-2003 09:04 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:02 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate