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Old 04-13-2004, 12:12 PM   #51
George S. Ledyard
 
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Use of Force

Quote:
Aleksey Sundeyev (shihonage) wrote:
Grab him by his sleeve and by his shirt, pull him toward you and then release the arm that is now under his chin, into an uppercut.

Yay.
Aleksey,

Whereas this is most assuredly effective, you could well find yourself with legal problems. In a situation like this it is not advisable to be the one that witnesses see as throwing the first blow. It is also advisable to stay clear of eyes and throat when the threat level is still low like this. (Factors justifying an elevated response would be any verbal indicators that the fellow wishes to REALLY hurt you, several friends also moving in on you etc.)

There are a number of techniques which can and do work in these situations. Trapping the pushing hand on your chest and executing a nikkyo is high on the list. Despite your protestations kotegaeshi is a good one here, also intercepting the hand and snagging the fingers for a finger lock is also excellent but these do require practice but no more so than any other technique.

Anyway, I would attempt to stick to control techniques as an initial response. Then, if the subject beats that attempt, he is likely to escalate the threat in a way that is obvious to everyone present and you can nuke him without seeming to be doing the escalating yourself.

George S. Ledyard
Aikido Eastside
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Old 04-16-2004, 12:44 AM   #52
Largo
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I have a purely theoretical question. Assuming its a big double-armed shove, do any of you think it would be possible to do an ura-juji nage? (Yes, I am aware that for safety reasons it's not a good idea, but I was just curious)
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Old 04-16-2004, 10:08 AM   #53
mantis
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Anything is possible, but is it probable.

Like most people here say, keep it simple. to get juji-nage, your attacker has to do certain things to make your success rate higher.

If he does, well then cool, if he doesn't and you still try to do the technique, it will fail.

But i think it's possible to do this technique just not that probable.

From a big double-armed shove, you can throw the attacker even with your hands behind your back. It's success rate would be very high, since you are eliminating variables like your hands/arms etc.
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Old 05-04-2004, 11:22 PM   #54
Sonnyboy
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Re: Best technique to use against someone shoving you?

if he pushes u, make a side step then grab his wrist, pull him, slam his cute face to the wall .. u dnt need to make it fancy . always the simple technique is the best way....

if you look at the naked unsheathed blade then that blade will kill you.
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Old 05-05-2004, 08:03 AM   #55
Nick Simpson
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Re: Best technique to use against someone shoving you?

Theres a very effective self defence technique to use against someone shoving you or getting in too close to your personal space, as they approach you push one of their shoulders back and slightly pull the other shoulder, if done correctly it spins them round so you can restrain/choke them. Its the kind of thing you can only do on someone once, when they dont expect it.
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Old 05-06-2004, 04:58 PM   #56
Tharis
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Talking Re: Best technique to use against someone shoving you?

Quote:
Josh Bisker wrote:
My sensei gets up and walks up to him with a big smile on his face. He intercepts the guy before he's gotten over to us and says, "hey man, how's it going? i'm jim, you want a beer?"
Talk about an irimi...wow. Powerful stuff. Shame I wasn't there to see it

--Tom
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Old 05-06-2004, 07:00 PM   #57
stuartjvnorton
 
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Re: Best technique to use against someone shoving you?

Quote:
MaryKaye wrote:
If you have lots of space and a surface you like, an interesting response to being shoved would be to do a full backwards roll and walk away. It looks impressive enough that the opponent might think twice, and yet it's not aggressive.

No good in a crowded place, though, and watch out for broken glass.

Mary Kaye

Don't know how quickly I'd advocate going down at all unless there's a really good reason.
A backwards roll will just give the other guy a chance to kick you in the head or back or wherever while you're in the middle of the roll & you can't defend at all from there.

I'd either leans towards the hiji-shime, or attack the elbow with a cut down hiji-ate kokyu nage.
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Old 05-06-2004, 08:38 PM   #58
shadow
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Re: Best technique to use against someone shoving you?

kick em in the nuts.

happiness. harmony. compassion.
--damien--
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Old 05-06-2004, 11:53 PM   #59
ryujin
 
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Re: Best technique to use against someone shoving you?

Grab the arms, put a foot in their gut and fall over backwards hurling them far up over you head just like Cpt. Kirk would do in the old Star Trek series.

Its even more effective with his fight scene theme music playing in your head.

Da da da, dada da, dada da.

Carl Bilodeau
Jiyūshin-ryū AikiBudō
Renshinkan

"Yield to temptation — it may not pass your way again." - Robert Heinlein
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Old 05-07-2004, 12:51 AM   #60
Chris Birke
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Re: Best technique to use against someone shoving you?

I'd reccommend little besides not falling down. A push isn't really an attack.
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Old 05-07-2004, 01:00 AM   #61
ryujin
 
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Re: Best technique to use against someone shoving you?

Quote:
MaryKaye wrote:
If you have lots of space and a surface you like, an interesting response to being shoved would be to do a full backwards roll and walk away. It looks impressive enough that the opponent might think twice, and yet it's not aggressive.

No good in a crowded place, though, and watch out for broken glass.

Mary Kaye
It only looks pretty until the attacker follows the shove with a kick to your exposed kidneys or spine when your rolling over backwards.


Carl Bilodeau
Jiyūshin-ryū AikiBudō
Renshinkan

"Yield to temptation — it may not pass your way again." - Robert Heinlein
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Old 05-10-2004, 03:04 AM   #62
Orihime
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Re: Best technique to use against someone shoving you?

Once you've moved out from the attck, there's a lot that can be done, I guess.
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Old 05-10-2004, 09:43 AM   #63
PaulieWalnuts
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Re: Best technique to use against someone shoving you?

or a sacrifice tech. just before they close make contact enter staight throw and kokyo to chin, nose. with a feeling of ken awaze. that should knock em out for a while
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Old 05-20-2004, 12:29 AM   #64
Ian Williams
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Re: Best technique to use against someone shoving you?

Quote:
Aleksey S. wrote:
Peter, I looked up waki gatame and it looks like something I usually shift to when I feel my "ikkyo ura" is about to fail, on my real life ... acquaintances.

I just thought it was called hiji-kime. The differences are blurry to me at this point... I use armpit to control the arm...

This is exactly the same as the standing restraint "Arm Break" we use in Jujitsu... very effective.
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Old 05-20-2004, 06:35 AM   #65
Duval Culpepper
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Re: Best technique to use against someone shoving you?

So how's that technique above work? Grab on top of the wrist, tenkan, and turn the arm over and bring it into your chest?
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Old 05-20-2004, 09:27 AM   #66
GLWeeks
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Re: Best technique to use against someone shoving you?

Quote:
Larry Camejo wrote:
Grab the forearem, turn away, drop your upper arm over his elbow and sink your weight to the floor (called Hiji Osae or something like that - aka basic arm bar).
Took the words right outta my mouth.... We went over this exact technique from tsuki attack in our last class....
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Old 05-21-2004, 06:26 AM   #67
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Re: Best technique to use against someone shoving you?

I've used tenkan into kote gaesh..
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Old 05-21-2004, 07:29 AM   #68
ian
 
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Re: Best technique to use against someone shoving you?

I think it is important not to formalise the link between an 'attack type' and the response. It bypasses the major part of a real confrontation. For example, if someone is really overtly agressive you should not let them get close enough to push you with any power - as they get too close you must be proactive. Alternatively if it is your little brother pushing you, you can just move or turn out of the way. The techniques are superfluous to i. judgement of the situation ii. distance iii. timing, iv. blending.

P.S. pushing is often used by people in security to initiate a fight or flight response. i.e. you push someone away very hard - if they run, that is fine, if they come back, you know there will be a fight.

P.P.S. we call the above technique rockyo (technique no. 6), although we tend to keep our own head and spine straight!

P.P.P.S Somene tried to 'barge' in to me with their body once and I moved out of the way at the last moment and they fell over. If someone knows you do aikido they are looking for grabs - punch or kick them instead!

Last edited by ian : 05-21-2004 at 07:33 AM.
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Old 05-21-2004, 09:54 AM   #69
emptymind
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Talking Re: Best technique to use against someone shoving you?

Quote:
Damien Bohler wrote:
kick em in the nuts.
very effective technique, works all the time!
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Old 05-21-2004, 11:38 AM   #70
vanstretch
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Re: Best technique to use against someone shoving you?

Hi , Who has seen "Path beyond Thought"? Take Sensei sure used alot of finger waza on his ukes, that blended into sankyo, etc. I was told that the AI charachter in AIKIDO (first of 3, or the one on top), displays what appears to be the roof of a house, but is in fact, the blending of incomming energy. Is this too far fetched a thing to ponder ?
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Old 05-26-2004, 06:48 AM   #71
Pauly
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Re: Best technique to use against someone shoving you?

I would say do nothing!

The reason I say this is that several years ago after a traffic accident wherein I tapped a guys bumper at a stop light (totally my fault). I got out to profusely apologize to the guy driving, who upon seeing the lack of damage to his car went apeshit and began screaming and behaving badly. I maintained my apologetic attitude and eventually the guy closed a distance of about six feet and shoved me, both hands to my chest. I took a step back with his shove, never raising my hands above my waist.

The next thing I hear is "STOP!" as two police officers who watched the traffic incident occur and were on their way over to offer assitance witnessed the assault and battery and intervened. The cops cuffed and put down on the dirty street the offensive guy and his friend who was just watching and grinning. To make an already long story short, I didn't press charges and they apologized and that was the end of it.

So, In my experience, the best defense against a shove is to do nothing. He he!
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Old 05-26-2004, 08:41 AM   #72
paw
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Re: Best technique to use against someone shoving you?

Quote:
Chris Birke wrote:
A push isn't really an attack.
It is if you are standing on the edge of a roof. It which case it is not only an attack, but a lethal attack.

Circumstances dictate the tactics

Regards,

Paul.
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Old 05-26-2004, 10:20 AM   #73
L. Camejo
 
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Re: Best technique to use against someone shoving you?

Quote:
paul watt wrote:
Circumstances dictate the tactics
Now that makes sense.

In some countries we are not so lucky to have cops on every corner - in fact, they tend to make sure to arrive AFTER things have already happened. This happened to me - got attacked by 8 guys (started with a shove) and the cops were only one block away and of no assistance at all.

Like Paul said...

LC

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
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Old 05-27-2004, 05:59 PM   #74
Aiki U-Dansha
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Re: Best technique to use against someone shoving you?

Hi. My Sensei always taught me that if someone pulls you, you make an irimi...if someone pushes you, make a tenkan e let him pass through (using any type of kokyu nage). In any case sometime not answering is the best way.....
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Old 09-11-2004, 08:14 PM   #75
Aikidoiain
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Thumbs down Re: Best technique to use against someone shoving you?

I don't know the technical name for this, but I often use a finger lock then bend his arm behind him while using my other hand to lock his head away from you. It's very painful and effective (for him!).

Other than that a nikkyo or kotegaeshi while applying your two thumbs to the pressure points on the back of his hand. Even a simple ikkyo would do.

Or, you could push back, forcing him to push even harder - then when you "feel" he's really putting his back into it, just move to the outside and throw him in the direction he was pushing! Simple.

Incidentally, in this country, if someone you don't know lays a hand (or finger) on you, that's assault in the eyes of the law.

Best wishes,
Iain.

Last edited by Aikidoiain : 09-11-2004 at 08:19 PM.
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