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Old 03-30-2004, 09:22 PM   #26
L. Camejo
L. Camejo's Avatar
Dojo: Ontario Martial Arts
Location: Mississauga, Ontario
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,423
Speaking of sutemi, I went to a Judo workshop recently (given by Steven Jimmerfield) and learnt a nasty one from tenkai kotehineri. He's even applying tegatana from a from a floor grappling position to escape kesa gatame. Which again brings the point that to be on the floor does not mean that one has lost balance.

Just something I remembered.


--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
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Old 03-31-2004, 12:17 AM   #27
batemanb's Avatar
Dojo: Seibukan Aikido UK
Location: body in UK, heart still in Japan
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,031
Larry Camejo (L. Camejo) wrote:
Hence my initial point that without first maintaining one's own balance, there can be no disruption of the other's balance and effective application of technique.
I agree with this totally, tori must be balanced in order to maintain uke's balance and lead him into kuzushi before applying technique.

If you do this well, then you should be able to make uke totally reliable upon you to keep themselves from falling. You may only have the slightest of contact, but it's enough, only when you choose to change that do they fall.
Sharon Seymour wrote:
Timing is an interesting question: What comes first, the connection or the kuzushi? My impression over the weekend was that the kuzushi needs to be part of the connection. Uke is trying to connect with nage's center and break balance, and nage has to re-direct before that connection occurs....
Interesting one this. Is it simultaneously, or does one occur before the other? I think that the connection happens first, hopefully the instant that uke attacks. Kuzushi is part of the same process but comes from the connection, I don't think you can do kuzushi without it.

I like this thread.



A difficult problem is easily solved by asking yourself the question, "Just how would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
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Old 03-31-2004, 11:30 AM   #28
Dojo: City Aikido
Location: San Francisco, CA USA
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 178
tyler crandall (crand32100) wrote:
I don't think that yin/yang is best represented by the idea of nage wanting to become uke's center. I look at it more like maybe uke is the white, nage is the black, and the line in the middle is just where people touch. When I look at it I see that one side equals the other. A=B. If one is trying to change the other, A does not equal B anymore.
How about this? Think of yin/yang symbol with dividing line going more-or-less vertical. What happens when the black side changes *self-orientation* so that the symbol as a whole is now turned with respect to gravity. Now let go. What happens to the white side when that dividing line parts? Does the white side fall or does the black?

Just thinking out loud here....

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Old 04-01-2004, 11:29 PM   #29
Location: Australia
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 641
Another point of view -

You could say there's no balance to break because there is *no* balance to begin with.

Eg: If you lean on me and I move out of the way, did I break your balance, or did I simply remove a false base of support?

Take a look at a human being. The only time we're balanced is when we lay flat on the floor. Otherwise, we're in the process of trying to maintain a constant fall without hitting the ground, kinda of like a satellite in orbit.

"Walking is a series of catastrophes, narrowly avoided."

Aikido = slight of body.Thus, moving in ways that naturally cause you to mis-step.

You can of course *force* the other person to fall via joint manipulation, pain etc. That works for sure.

But you can also cause him to react in such a manner that he falls in trying to right himself. Taint easy, but I've seen it done
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Old 04-02-2004, 07:11 AM   #30
Mel Barker
Dojo: University of Louisville Aikido Club
Location: Louisville, KY
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 123
Bob Strahinjevich (bob_stra) wrote:
But you can also cause him to react in such a manner that he falls in trying to right himself. Taint easy, but I've seen it done

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