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Old 01-17-2004, 09:24 PM   #1
Paula Lydon
Dojo: Aikido Shugenkai
Location: Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2002
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Grr! All out

~~Do you ever have those times during training when you feel so full of an agitated sort of energy that you've got this persistant urge to go all out, knowing full well that you or your partner (probably both) will likely sustain an injury but you don't really care at that moment? I feel this from time to time, this hell bent intensity, and it's all I can do to not indulge it, sometimes just leaving to dojo or not even going to class if I feel it ahead of time.
~~However this makes me sound I'm just being honest and was wondering if others struggle with a semilar feeling at times and what steps they take with it. Thanks

~~Paula~~
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Old 01-17-2004, 10:32 PM   #2
Lan Powers
Dojo: Aikido of Midland, Midland TX
Location: Midland Tx
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Not in the context you have described. I often wish to "open up" as concerning speed and controlled force. You are speaking of no controls, aren't you?

As a beginner, I know I can't take too much "steam" on the throws. I love throwing the sempais who have told me to let it all out on the technique. As we have gone on, one of the most gratifying things to me, has been the progression from "easy now, he's just starting" to going for it!

The times you describe Paula,I just go to S.C.A. fighter practice and hit people with sticks.......great fun and stress relief you would NOT believe.

Lan

Play nice, practice hard, but remember, this is a MARTIAL art!
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Old 01-18-2004, 12:28 AM   #3
MaryKaye
Dojo: Seattle Ki Society
Location: Seattle
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I've had that experience just once, and found it deeply disconcerting.

I was training, at a seminar, with a dan rank who'd been sensei for several classes I'd attended. She'd just got done insisting to someone else that in *this* context she was a student, not sensei. I picked up the pace of the attacks, the physical level of aggression--her style is already a lot more physically aggressive than the one I usually train in--and said "If you're just a student I can get fresh with you, right?" And then I realized uneasily that I was actually trying to provoke her, that some warped part of me wanted a fight and was willing to accept getting pounded into the ground (which is of course what would have happened, given the enormous skill difference).

She just grinned and said, "You're a woman, you can get away with this--if you were a guy you'd be in for it." And took the faster attacks without escalating her responses beyond my level.

I don't know why this happened. We had some friction going but I don't normally think of myself as someone who responds to personality friction with physical aggression! And picking a fight with a dan rank, good gods, I'm usually smarter than that. (Though it's safer than trying the same stunt with a brown belt, come to think of it.)

Something to keep an eye out for in the future.

Mary Kaye
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Old 01-18-2004, 09:27 AM   #4
L. Camejo
 
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Dojo: Ontario Martial Arts
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Re: All out

Quote:
Paula Lydon wrote:
~~Do you ever have those times during training when you feel so full of an agitated sort of energy that you've got this persistant urge to go all out, knowing full well that you or your partner (probably both) will likely sustain an injury but you don't really care at that moment?
Have had this feeling off and on, usually during times of emotional distress. Most times though I don't let it follow me into the dojo.

If it does however, I tend not to let go as Tori (cuz I tend not to forgive myself if the other person gets hurt), but as Uke, by attacking my sensei at full force and speed, hoping to be launched into orbit and land in such a way that things begin to make sense again, causing the feeling to go a few seconds after the impact.

I often work on perfecting my ukemi to get my mind back on track if this ever happens. If this does not work, and you need to let go as Tori, I say do some full/medium resistance randori - either you will be frustrated to the point of pulling your hair out, or return to humbleness and allow your mind to release from focussing on yourself and focus on your technique instead.

Just my 2 cents.

L.C.

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
http://www.tntaikido.org
http://www.mushinkan.ca
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Old 01-18-2004, 09:43 AM   #5
indomaresa
Dojo: Aiki Kenkyukai
Location: Indonesia
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hmm.. only recently

but that's because my sensei is currently teaching ki aikido in advanced classes. The training is very mental and frustrating.

Going all out in spontaneous randori is not a bad thing every once in a while, it'll keep your aikido 'martial' and gives you something to think about while your injury heals.


The road is long...
The path is steep...
So hire a guide to show you the shortcuts
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Old 01-18-2004, 12:53 PM   #6
SeiserL
 
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Dojo: Roswell Budokan, Kyushinkan Dojo, Aikido World Alliance
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Yep, gotta watch that "agitated energy" on the mat. IMHO, sometimes its more about me and what is happening out side the dojo that has gotten my energy up. I tend to try to leave my life and my ego at the door.

Coming from the streets and a bashing background, I often want to take my training to the next level. I have had a few people who want to join me and we have had great workouts.

"All out" is never the point, because IMHO "all out" doesn't mean I might hurt somebody, it means I will. Some measure of restraint is important in training.

If I feel I can't control it, been a few times, I bow out, go home, and hit the heavy bag until I can't lift the arms. Been known to sit down and have a good cry afterwards. Then I have to see what it was that I have not been dealing with in life.

What are you learning about yourself when you feel a need for "all out"?

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 01-18-2004, 01:55 PM   #7
Jeanne Shepard
 
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Ah, now in my case, I tend to not go "all out" but hold back. Probably out of fear of what WILL come out. Maybe I need to punch a bag and cry too.

Jeanne
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Old 01-18-2004, 03:41 PM   #8
ChristianBoddum
 
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Hi !

I'm not sure of the meaning of :

"Give no reign to the spiritual horse"

(O'sensei).

But it seems accidents always occur when

getting too agitated even if only a little,

I've taken the liberty to see it as letting

"the spiritual horse" loose.

Holding back is my weak point,but it seems

Aikido must be learned in a calm and controlled way,and so it takes time to build correct habits.

You need only to look to your senseis,to realise how to train to become a real Aikidoka.

P.S. and don't listen to Twisted sister to much !!

yours - Chr.B.
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Old 01-18-2004, 08:16 PM   #9
Jeanne Shepard
 
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When I was riding horses, I used to get run away with more often then i got thrown.

Getting run away with is scary and fun at the same time...

Jeanne
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Old 01-18-2004, 10:59 PM   #10
Paula Lydon
Dojo: Aikido Shugenkai
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~~Horses are born to run. Is a permanently stabled horse a horse any longer? When I was younger, I'd run until I literally dropped and felt purged. Like misogi, but before I knew that word or idea. I don't think it's an energy that should be stuffed; just trying to understand and channel it in a positive way. We all talk about ki not being good or bad, so this is just another manifestation isn't it? Like when you're really mellow, or having a brain-dead day.

~~I have left the dojo, hit the bag, had a good cry, got introspective and taken ukemi until I couldn't breath; good ideas all. What I do like about this energy, though, is that it leaves me with little or no tolerence for BS, mine or anyone's (granted in my opinion only). Just looking for constructive ways to use those blunt, in-your-face urges towards fearless (stupid?) confrontation.

~~A wild horse is a danger to all, but that same energy, understood and properly utilized, is something not to be denied or ignored I think, lest we lose something in our spirit. Just rambling out loud again...

~~Paula~~
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Old 01-19-2004, 01:22 PM   #11
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
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I have a couple of training partners I trust that I can go pretty hard with, and they with me. I miss it if we don't get to train for too long (like lately). But I also know that at 42, I can't take as many hard falls myself, either.

I did do something rather strange for me at a seminar this weekend though. I was called up for ukemi by one of the instructors, and put more resistance into my ukemi (nikajo/nikyo was the technique) than I usually do. Now, some instructors would get ticked off in that situation, and I could lose a wrist doing that. Fortunately, the instructor simply modified his variation accordingly, and got a good strong 'tap out' for his efforts

I'm sure there was something a little perverse going on with me to do that...but I haven't quite figured it out yet. Maybe a little of testing myself, and a little of testing the instructor I guess. I'm sure glad he took it all in stride...

Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 01-27-2004, 04:05 AM   #12
drDalek
 
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I love those times, there is nothing as pleasant as the sensation of all of that intensity coursing through you and being able to indulge it.

The few times it has happened to me my partner responded quite positively and upped his pace to match mine as well. Ofcourse, you must never allow yourself to become a bully. A request to go a bit slower should always be honored and it helps if you know/have worked with/trust your training partner to not go overboard on pins or rough sloppy throws.

The few time it happened to my training partner I gladly took it as putting things into a more realistic, more serious light.

When you manage to throw an Uke who is attacking like that or take Ukemi for a Nage who is throwing like that it validates your training and instills confidence.

Trying to aggravate someone is brilliant practice for them. You can realy filter the wheat from the chaff as far as self-control, sense of humor and skill goes and the person being aggravated can practice trying to center themselves in a more emotionally charged and altogether more realistic context.

If anything I wish more classes are like this.
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Old 03-11-2004, 11:13 PM   #13
Largo
Dojo: Aikikai Dobunkan/ Icho Ryu Aikijujutsu
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yup. that kind of feeling is what drew me to martial arts in the first place
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