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Old 03-11-2004, 07:23 PM   #26
Erik
Location: Bay Area
Join Date: Jun 2000
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Quote:
C.E. Clark (Chuck Clark) wrote:
My usage of the terms "desensitizing and then re-sensitizing" has to do with the re-education of these "buttons" that get pushed by others or events and cause us to have a less than optimum ability to make intuitive, creative decisions based on clear information at hand.
I'd meant to ask what you meant by those terms the first time I saw them, which is probably a couple of years ago, but for whatever reason I never did. Thanks for sharing that.

Last edited by Erik : 03-11-2004 at 07:38 PM.
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Old 03-11-2004, 10:24 PM   #27
Chuck Clark
 
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Dojo: Jiyushinkan
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Quote:
Charles Hill wrote:
Mr. Clark,

You met Yukio Mishima?! What was he like?
Hi Charles,

I met him outside the weight training area. Someone had told him that I was a Marine and he seemed very interested in the fact that I had grown up doing budo and was shodan in judo, jujutsu, and Shoreikan Goju ryu karatedo. He invited me to lunch. I really didn't know who he was at that time. I was only nineteen years old and a bit dense. Later he asked me to go to a meeting of some sort and dinner a couple of days later. One of the guys I knew from the Kodokan that also trained Shotokan told me about some of his attitudes and I never went to the second dinner. He seemed very intense and eager to form connections.

I didn't really know that much about him other than he trained upstairs and was into body building. When I saw his picture in the news after his suicide I recognized him. I read a couple of his stories later on and that's the end of the story.

Chuck Clark
Jiyushinkai Aikibudo
www.jiyushinkai.org
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Old 03-12-2004, 08:01 AM   #28
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
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Quote:
...and that's the end of the story.
Maybe, but its still a pretty neat story!

RT

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 03-12-2004, 02:38 PM   #29
ikkitosennomusha
Join Date: Mar 2003
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Peter:

I was hoping not to address you publicly. What does Chuck being a gentleman have to do with anything? At least Chuck knows how to be polite and when ambiguity occurs it is best to ask and never assume. You could learn this from Chuck!

When I formulate an opinion, it is from direct experience. If you read my posts, you will find some of my direct conctacts to Japanese taught aikido and culture. Don't feel so insecure about what others might say that you have to try to fill in the lines and act like some great aikido rehtoric. I find your attitude to be less than desireable. It is lonsome propaganda to speak of what you do not know. I also find your tongue to be insubordinate and I don't want to remind you again please. If you cannot conduct your attitude in a professional manner without having to slander another, I will not reply to your posts becuase they are not worth the attention.

Brad Medling
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Old 03-12-2004, 08:07 PM   #30
Chuck Clark
 
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Mr. Medling,

I don't understand how Peter can be "insubordinate" when he is not subordinate to anyone on this list, especially you.

"Not submissive to authority" is the first definition from Merriam-Webster.

I understood Peter to be giving some (unsolicited to be sure...but free) advice from someone that lives and trains in Japan to someone that, in your unwillingness to come right out and say, "Yes, I have trained there...", or "No, I have never trained in Japan but I observed So and So Sensei and heard others say ..." The way you worded your statements you lead people to believe that you speak with authority from first hand experience of training in Japan under teachers there. We are a picky bunch with ambiguous statements by people that are not open with their history who want their statements to be taken with the weight that they imply.

I did ask about ambiguities and you answered with more of the same. Such as: "When I formulate an opinion, it is from direct experience. If you read my posts, you will find some of my direct contacts to Japanese taught aikido and culture."

And then, "I find your attitude to be less than desirable. It is lonsome propaganda to speak of what you do not know. I also find your tongue to be insubordinate and I don't want to remind you again please."

To me, this sounds as though you're lecturing a subordinate or a child. This doesn't seem appropriate to me.

If you do not see any value in this gift of my take on how you came across since you came on this discussion forum, then simply ignore it. It is not meant to be hurtful.

Chuck Clark
Jiyushinkai Aikibudo
www.jiyushinkai.org
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Old 03-12-2004, 09:16 PM   #31
ikkitosennomusha
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Hi Clark.

Well, the apperars to be a lesson from this. I do appreciate Peter's advice. However, personal attacks seem a little cocky. If I am wrong, I'll be the first to admit it. There is no ego here.

What I was paying particular attention to was how Peter would find a way to scrutinize an assertion made by be after many of my posts. Is this necessary? I don't mind at all as long as they are tasteful.

It doesn't matter a flip of beans who is where, japan or america. The concern is aikido. It has not been established who is ranked what and under whom the rank was awarded so, subordination is not a factor in the aikido world relative to us. However, as a human being, it is my friend. Some people get caught up in the glory of what little autrocious authority they have in a dojo. Aikido is ultimately about being a better person so, this is why I have not emphasized on rank, affiliations, where I have traveled, etc.

If one is being slightly vein to another, it is subordination to that person, to one's character, to aikido which the person represents, etc. It all depends on how you look at it. Perhaps I take these matters seriously. Maybe I am in a place where I have cultivated respect for others even if I disagree.

Every time I post, Peter has made is known "I live in Japan, I am a shodokan hero, I know whats best" kinda attitude. I felt it was time to address this. To be quite frank, I don't know why it is important if I trained in Japan or not. How about this, I will post a new thread just for you guys will shed some light. I don't like being public with my thoughts and sentimenst because there are obviously those who take it wrong.

Brad Medling
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Old 03-12-2004, 10:22 PM   #32
Chuck Clark
 
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Mr. Medling,

Thanks for your reply. I also read your post elsewhere on this site concerning your history. It is your choice if you choose not to share your lineage with us. If you had said that in the first place I would respect that. I will not ask any questions of you about your history in the future.

In the past, especially on the internet, I have experienced many people who are obviously very intelligent and speak with authority that has no substance other than intellectual theory who like to debate, create drama, and develop a cyber-persona that will not hold up in real life. Talk is cheap. I especially like to know who I'm talking to as I only have so many breaths left and do not want to spend them in cyber space dialogs and cerebral chat.

None of the above is directed at you since I know nothing about you. Again, thanks for making your position clear.

Chuck Clark
Jiyushinkai Aikibudo
www.jiyushinkai.org
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Old 03-12-2004, 11:48 PM   #33
ikkitosennomusha
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Quote:
C.E. Clark (Chuck Clark) wrote:
Mr. Medling,

Thanks for your reply. I also read your post elsewhere on this site concerning your history. It is your choice if you choose not to share your lineage with us. If you had said that in the first place I would respect that. I will not ask any questions of you about your history in the future.

In the past, especially on the internet, I have experienced many people who are obviously very intelligent and speak with authority that has no substance other than intellectual theory who like to debate, create drama, and develop a cyber-persona that will not hold up in real life. Talk is cheap. I especially like to know who I'm talking to as I only have so many breaths left and do not want to spend them in cyber space dialogs and cerebral chat.

None of the above is directed at you since I know nothing about you. Again, thanks for making your position clear.
Hi Mr.Clark!

I see now. Your comments are helping me to see the necessity for members becoming quasi-acquainted. I suspect that their are some who pretend to be something there are not, especially in the cyber world. So, I am changing my view thanks to your persistence!

I have found joy in discussing aikido in this community. I realize that there are people in need of direction and it is important to weed out the ones who are pretenders so in this regard, I guess you and Peter are just doing what you can to figure things out. I appologize to Peter for I did not know the circumstances of behind his interpritation of my posts. Perhaps I reacted prematurely as well.

Appologies out of the way, I am the real deal and I take offense to this sort of cyber-crud as well. Hopefully we can encourage members to be honest for honesty is where the most can be gained. It does not matter the rank or involement of a individual, if anyone has a question hopefully our experienced members as yourself and Peter can answer.

As experienced as I, I would not doubt that a begginner might offer a refreshing view on a topic. As long as I feel the advice is lagitimate, as most of us advanced people can detect, then all beginners should speak up if they have something to offer or a question needed answering.

If we promote the true spirit of "beginner's mind" then advanced students will hopefully follow and beginners will feel more comfortable acknowledging their true experience and will thus be able to better contribute to the posts.

regards,

Brad Medling
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Old 03-13-2004, 07:30 AM   #34
Charles Hill
Dojo: Numazu Aikikai/Aikikai Honbu Dojo
Location: Three Lakes WI/ Mishima Japan
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Mr. Clark,

Since you continue to keep active on this thread, I`m going to take advantage of your kindness with more questions.

In your article, you write that traditionally, instructors would not accept students without "nyunanshin." Since that is difficult in these times, do you think that it is possible for an instructor to bring "nyunanshin" out of a student? If yes, how can that be done?

Also, in terms of desensitizing and sensitizing a student as well as providing a "dilemma rich environment," how active are you as a teacher in creating such development?

Sincerely,

Charles Hill
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Old 03-13-2004, 08:13 AM   #35
Chuck Clark
 
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Charles,

The quality of kokoro known as nyunanshin or sometimes also junanshin meaning "a flexible spirit" is exhibited by some people that apply for acceptance in the Jiyushinkan. Many others are not open and receptive to what they have seen in their visits to observe. They're somewhat argumentative and expecting us to fit them instead of the other way around.

I and the other seniors at the dojo have had some success in bringing out a quality of openess in those we have accepted as members that display less than optimum attitudes. I tend to let the training have a go at them and the example of the students that have been training for some time before I talk to them much about this. As is usual in the way of things, some "get it" and some don't. One thing that I try to change quickly is the attitude of the relationship being one of "customer and merchant". I have nothing for sale.

This ability needs to be learned in most cases from a teacher that has the touch. I'm not sure I'm cabable of putting the process into words and if I was...I wouldn't.

As far as fostering a deliberate state of conflict or dilemma in the dojo goes, the practice pushes buttons and being human adds to the soup mix. Some students that have talent, energy, etc. in abundance sometimes seem to learn things easily. I have on occasion "created" problems they have to solve. The paradox of always being "uncomfortable" in the dojo until you develop comfort in being uncomfortable is the key. Budo practice must always have the element of "life and death" immediacy whether going slow, soft, hard, fast, etc. Strong intent to create problems for each other to learn to solve is what the practice is about in my opinion. At the same time the feeling of trust and family should exist in the dojo. It is the teacher's responsibility to set the tone.

Well, I have to get to the dojo, so I'll stop.

Thanks for your interest.

Chuck Clark
Jiyushinkai Aikibudo
www.jiyushinkai.org
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