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Old 01-19-2001, 11:02 AM   #1
BC
Location: Chicago, IL
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So, do you think that studying aikido would be good for everyone? If so, why or why not?

I voted no because I believe there are some people who might use the techniques improperly, and possibly hurt themselves or others in the long run. Also, for some people aikido is just not the right martial art for them. Among other various reasons...

Robert Cronin
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Old 01-19-2001, 01:14 PM   #2
Jim23
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I agree 100%

Aikido is not for everyone, I don't think any art is.

Years back I took a Judo class and a karate class and didn't hesitate to choose karate. I felt that judo was too soft at the time and what I needed was a self defence. Looking back I should have taken judo for the long-term effects.

If you are 6'6'' and very strong almost any MA could be good for you.

Jim23
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Old 01-19-2001, 01:45 PM   #3
Yo-Jimbo
Dojo: formerly Windward Aikido, formerly at Keewenaw Schools of Aikido (ASU)
Location: Formerly Hawaii Pacific University, formerly at Michigan Technological University
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Would, could and will.

I voted yes, but agree with you both too.
The question asked if aikido "would" be a positive influence. I saw this as the ability to do good, but not the certainty beyond freewill. Could aikido help anyone? Why not? Does every human being have something to learn from aikido? I think so. Will it or does it always perform miracles? No, unfortunately not.
Aikido may not be the perfect way, still mankind has come up with worse.
If one wanted a great arguement on semantics, one could question if anything that fails to help people even is Aikido.

"One does not find wisdom in another's words." -James D. Chye
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Old 01-19-2001, 01:57 PM   #4
Jim23
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Yes, aikido can be good for everyone, why not? But as good as what? For what?

What's better, church? a gun?, a fitness club? an education? stamp collecting?

Depends what it's needed for.

Jim23
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Old 01-19-2001, 07:59 PM   #5
ntrcptr_00
Location: Austin, Texas
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Talking Is Aikido Good for Everyone, Including My Mom?

My mom is visiting and asked me this very question last night. Actually, she asked me if Aikido would be good for her. She is 59, 5'6", 140#, and has a history of back problems (from C-Spine injury 10 or so years ago). Maybe it is only my percetion, but she seems to be getting more frail by the day.

She picked up quickly from my discussion that she would have to be thrown, while she was learning to throw. While I believe that how she falls is probably more important than if she is thrown, there is the protective side of me that would insert caution.

From the spiritual, mental side, it would be great for her. From the physical side, I think it depends in large part upon what her doctor would advise, who she would have for sensei, and what the attitude of the dojo is. I hear of seemingly frail 70-something year old men all the time practicing Aikido, but have never heard of a 60-70 something year old woman practicing. Anybody know of any little old ladies they know could send an attacker flying in a heartbeat?
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Old 01-24-2001, 02:17 AM   #6
Erik
Location: Bay Area
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If Aikido were beneficial to everyone then everyone would do it and no one would ever quit. Since not everyone does Aikido and most people quit I'm willing to bet the Aikido experience wasn't all that beneficial to them or even beneficial at all.

Pretty simple actually.
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Old 01-24-2001, 03:55 AM   #7
DiNalt
Join Date: Dec 2000
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Quote:
Erik wrote:
If Aikido were beneficial to everyone then everyone would do it and no one would ever quit. Since not everyone does Aikido and most people quit I'm willing to bet the Aikido experience wasn't all that beneficial to them or even beneficial at all.

Pretty simple actually.
Yeah, seeing loads of beginners join up every month, and 90% of them quitting in a month or two.. or three... or in some cases four... just gives me that warm egotistical feeling inside that is one of the reasons why I come back.

There, I said it
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Old 01-24-2001, 09:30 AM   #8
gray
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Quote:
Erik wrote:
If Aikido were beneficial to everyone then everyone would do it and no one would ever quit. Since not everyone does Aikido and most people quit I'm willing to bet the Aikido experience wasn't all that beneficial to them or even beneficial at all.

Pretty simple actually.
The argument that if something is 'beneficial to everyone then everyone would do it' is untrue. A healthy diet and regular exercise is clearly beneficial to everyone, but does everyone have these?

People do not quit their diet plans because they do not find them beneficial, most quit because they lack the discipline or will power to stick to them.

Although there may be many reasons why people quit Aikido after the first few months, I would think lack of self-discipline would be far more common than beginners finding no benefit from Aikido.

Graham.
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Old 01-24-2001, 09:50 AM   #9
Aikilove
Dojo: Lunds Aikidoklubb
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Re: Is Aikido Good for Everyone, Including My Mom?

Quote:
ntrcptr_00 wrote:
[B I hear of seemingly frail 70-something year old men all the time practicing Aikido, but have never heard of a 60-70 something year old woman practicing. Anybody know of any little old ladies they know could send an attacker flying in a heartbeat? [/b]
Have you heard of Ms. Mutsuko Minegishi Sensei from Saipan (6'th dan Aikido) Check out http://user.chollian.net/~hkd5/advisor.htm
From personal experience this old lady can send you flying in half a hartbeat!

Jakob Blomquist
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Old 01-24-2001, 11:04 AM   #10
ian
 
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I answered yes.

Admittedly there are people who will miss-use it, but not doing aikido will not stop them doing other dangerous martial arts, fighting or even carrying weapons.

I have seen many thugs converted by Aikido, and it usually happens after a couple of years when they finally get to use the techniques practically (many thugs leave before they get any practical value from aiki).

I think the responsibility over someones safety when you are training becomes natural, and they start to feel responsible to others. In addition they get to realise that the smallest weakest looking people are sometimes the ones that can beat you senseless - so they are less likely to start fights.

For me aggression comes from misconception (often the feeling of a misperceived threat). Studying a martial art gives more confidence in yourself, and gets rid of the feeling of having to prove yourself physically. Maybe that is why I have never been attacked by a martial artist with any real experience. [though I can't speak for everyone].

Ian
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Old 01-24-2001, 11:07 AM   #11
ian
 
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I don't think age should be a problem. Sometimes it requires a bit of understanding from the instructor and club (as what would be a small injury for us youngsters could be broken bones for older people).

However if the club is willing to go at a slower pace with them initially it can only help prevent injuries in the long term:

Recent studies have shown that part of the reason older people get so many injuries from falling over, is because they have stopped doing exercise which require body co-ordination, and therefore are less stable on their feet.

Ian
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Old 01-24-2001, 01:22 PM   #12
stratcat
Dojo: Chendokan Aikido, Costa Rica
Location: San Jose, Costa Rica
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Do symbol Aikido: Good for everyone?

Yes, I think EVERYONE would benefit from learning Aikido, even if it's only the physical benefits from practicing it for a time- i.e. greater flexiblity, endurance, weight loss, etc. (as with any other Martial Art).

At the risk of sounding elitist, I also believe that the question that must be asked: Is everyone right for Aikido? Or would Aikido benefit from everyone learning it?

Our Sensei says that the spiritual discipline that Aikido demands will naturally weed out anyone with an "inappropriate" or agressive attitude. Personally, I would tend to agree with him; but what concerns me is the possible "commercialization" of Aikido.

With all due respect to its serious practitioners I would hate for Aikido to go the way of Tai Chi- where it's martial aspect is thrown aside in favor of its' aerobic, "suitable for all" people aspects. Tai Chi as a martial art has such a rich tradition, power and grace, that it's a shame that now it's seen as excercise for old folks.

I mean, how do we prevent Aikido form turning into the next Tae-Bo?

Andy Hertz.
"Standing before me
enemies my mind does not ignore
I take a step forward
and act!"
Morihei Ueshiba
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Old 01-24-2001, 06:00 PM   #13
Erik
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Quote:
gray wrote:
The argument that if something is 'beneficial to everyone then everyone would do it' is untrue. A healthy diet and regular exercise is clearly beneficial to everyone, but does everyone have these?
Some people get benefits from being overweight and not exercising. Medically this might not be true but without knowing everyone's situation we can't conclude exercise is beneficial for everyone. There can be psychological benefits to being overweight and out of shape. Big ones! You have to look at an individuals situation before you absolutely state that there are benefits for each individual in every activity.

Quote:
People do not quit their diet plans because they do not find them beneficial, most quit because they lack the discipline or will power to stick to them.
Maybe not being on the diet plan was more beneficial to them, the diet didn't work, they're allergic to cottage cheese in their super secret cottage cheese diet. There are many and varied reasons people don't stay on whatever program they get on.

Quote:
Although there may be many reasons why people quit Aikido after the first few months, I would think lack of self-discipline would be far more common than beginners finding no benefit from Aikido.
Self-discipline probably has very little to do with people staying in Aikido or leaving it for that matter. When something is fun, enjoyable and you get benefits from it, you show up and do it, when you don't you don't.
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Old 01-24-2001, 06:07 PM   #14
Erik
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Re: Is Aikido Good for Everyone, Including My Mom?

Quote:
ntrcptr_00 wrote:
I hear of seemingly frail 70-something year old men all the time practicing Aikido, but have never heard of a 60-70 something year old woman practicing. Anybody know of any little old ladies they know could send an attacker flying in a heartbeat?
I'm not sure how old Wendy Palmer is, I'd guess somewhere with a 5 in the front of it, so maybe not exactly what you are looking for, but she makes the ground really hard these days. Isn't Mary Heiny in the 60 ballpark? George Leonard is the oldest person I see with any regularity and he's in his late 70's.
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Old 01-24-2001, 11:07 PM   #15
Levan
Dojo: Tbilisi State University Dojo (Iwama Ryu Aikido)
Location: Tbilisi,Georgia
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I think Aikido is good for everyone. The considerations on proper use of techniques in real life, personalities and attitudes are not essential. The way Aikido is taught by any particular Sensei is the key point of Aikido education. If we agree on right educational system applied, then I fully agree with ones who think that Aikido is nearly the ideal system for the training of body and spirit. The Budo roots and spiritual background of Aikido guarantees the right approach to a system.

Levan
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Old 01-27-2001, 06:25 PM   #16
gray
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Quote:
Erik wrote:
Quote:
gray wrote:
The argument that if something is 'beneficial to everyone then everyone would do it' is untrue. A healthy diet and regular exercise is clearly beneficial to everyone, but does everyone have these?
Some people get benefits from being overweight and not exercising. Medically this might not be true but without knowing everyone's situation we can't conclude exercise is beneficial for everyone. There can be psychological benefits to being overweight and out of shape. Big ones! You have to look at an individuals situation before you absolutely state that there are benefits for each individual in every activity.

Quote:
People do not quit their diet plans because they do not find them beneficial, most quit because they lack the discipline or will power to stick to them.
Maybe not being on the diet plan was more beneficial to them, the diet didn't work, they're allergic to cottage cheese in their super secret cottage cheese diet. There are many and varied reasons people don't stay on whatever program they get on.
Erik, it was not my intention to give advice for people who are overweight. It was an analogy intended to get my point across. Much as I would like to debate over your challenges to my dietry points, this forum is for aikido, not weight-loss.
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Old 01-28-2001, 02:13 PM   #17
Erik
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Quote:
gray wrote:
Erik, it was not my intention to give advice for people who are overweight. It was an analogy intended to get my point across. Much as I would like to debate over your challenges to my dietry points, this forum is for aikido, not weight-loss.
Gray, if you are still out there. My points pertained to Aikido not diet, although, I was working from a slightly different angle than Jun's original question. I'll make them cleaner.

1. People do what they perceive to have benefit for them.
2. They do this consciously or unconsciously.
3. People won't do Aikido if they don't enjoy it or derive value from it in some form.
4. This may not be a logical process.

In other words, giving up smoking provides the probable benefit of a longer life. For me that is a benefit. Someone else may not perceive a longer life as a benefit. Their perception is just as correct as mine.

[Edited by Erik on January 28, 2001 at 02:31pm]
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Old 01-29-2001, 03:33 PM   #18
gray
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Quote:
Erik wrote:

Gray, if you are still out there. My points pertained to Aikido not diet, although, I was working from a slightly different angle than Jun's original question. I'll make them cleaner.

1. People do what they perceive to have benefit for them.
2. They do this consciously or unconsciously.
3. People won't do Aikido if they don't enjoy it or derive value from it in some form.
4. This may not be a logical process.

In other words, giving up smoking provides the probable benefit of a longer life. For me that is a benefit. Someone else may not perceive a longer life as a benefit. Their perception is just as correct as mine.
I agree with all your points above. the analogy was intended only to challenge the point made that 'If Aikido were beneficial to everyone then everyone would do it and no one would ever quit.'

You are arguing that Aikido is not beneficial to everyone, and I am not challenging that. I am simply pointing out the flaw in your logic. To reiterate my point more succinctly, If Aikido was beneficial to everyone, it does not follow that everyone would do it.

[Edited by gray on January 29, 2001 at 03:44pm]
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Old 01-29-2001, 05:36 PM   #19
Erik
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Quote:
gray wrote:
I agree with all your points above. the analogy was intended only to challenge the point made that 'If Aikido were beneficial to everyone then everyone would do it and no one would ever quit.'

You are arguing that Aikido is not beneficial to everyone, and I am not challenging that. I am simply pointing out the flaw in your logic. To reiterate my point more succinctly, If Aikido was beneficial to everyone, it does not follow that everyone would do it.
If the benefits were large enough and everyone saw more benefit in doing Aikido as opposed to something else, they would. Assuming they had the freedom to do so. But I'm just being stubborn here, although I'm right. Interestingly, you are too.
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