Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-26-2004, 02:21 PM   #26
Erik
Location: Bay Area
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,200
Offline
Quote:
Anne Marie Giri (giriasis) wrote:
I guess the same is true with men on a different relative scale.
One of the great hidden secrets in the muscle game is just how hard it is for almost anyone to add muscle. It's not just women but most men will never get large without help or good genetics. It's one of my gripes about the fitness industry in that almost everyone you see is chemically and/or surgically enhanced and/or blessed with supreme genetics and usually all three. I think people see these individuals and think that if they touch a weight they will balloon into a mass of muscle. What it really does is create unrealistic expectations as to what is 'easily' possible.

Interestingly, one of the benefits of weight training is that with a good program it's a powerful tool for fat loss and one of the best anti-aging tools around. Very good stuff but apparently not exciting enough for the masses.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2004, 02:27 PM   #27
BKimpel
Location: Alberta, Canada
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 113
Offline
That site was pretty interesting Paul. Of course depending on each body type the different exercises will vary. For instance because I am a short guy (5'7, 180 lbs) I can squat and leg press an enormous amount (in the Animal and close to the Holy S**t range), where as my bench presses and curls are only in the Fit Guy range.

Chin ups ‘At all' is pretty funny. Of course that's guaranteed to be my fate forever

Now as for running…that's why I started martial arts in the first place -- so I wouldn't have to run, heh heh.

Christian, as for this ‘pump' theory I agree with Paul that it's nonsense.

Weight training (and it's affect on the human muscle) is very simple:

Heavy weights for a low number of reps will result in bigger muscles (and thus more strength).

Lighter weights for a high number of reps will result in denser muscles (and thus more endurance).

It doesn't affect ‘sensitivity' in anyway.

Anne Marie,

That's true that someone with more strength can ‘muscle' through a technique (as I said I do from time to time), but injuring someone is different. In Aikido it is very easy to injure someone by being careless and it doesn't require any strength at all to do it. I have never injured any one ever, yet I have seen others injured by average-strengthed individuals. All Aikidoka need to be ‘sensitive' to their partner to prevent injury since Aikido injuries almost always happen because of lack of awareness (throwing someone into someone else or an object) or lack of skill (not turning towards them during shiho-nage, not letting go, etc.).

P.S. Congrats on shedding the pounds! It makes life easier and more enjoyable to be sure. Keep training with light weight-high reps to increase your muscular endurance (and strength as well) without any worry of becoming ‘muscle-bound'. Denser muscle also helps to prevent common muscular injuries as well.

Bruce Kimpel
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2004, 03:55 PM   #28
giriasis
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Florida
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 819
United_States
Offline
Bruce, thanks for the compliment. I was one of those people over a year and half a ago who said it really wasn't necessary, but I was always having to sit out in class watch others train harder and for longer. I just sick of it. I would never have tackled the task of getting my health in order if I didn't want to do better at my aikido.

Also, I think my point about muscling through with technique was to say that it really was related to body building or weight training but rather skill and carelessess. Heck, I even "muscle" the smaller women and men. I'm very conscious to find my sensitivity with them. But I also agree that strong people are not the only people who can cause injury.

Anne Marie Giri
Women in Aikido: a place where us gals can come together and chat about aikido.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2004, 09:07 PM   #29
jk
Location: Indonesia
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 245
Offline
Quote:
Dean Suter (Amassus) wrote:
When I stop weight training I found my body is more likely to get injured during training. I'm not talking about severe injuries, just the typical aches and pains one might get from twisting limbs and falling heavily.
I'll second that. Maintaining your muscular strength and endurance seems to help prevent injuries. I lifted weights throughout the time I practiced hapkido, and the severest injury I remember was a big contusion (from a kick to the thigh). Other dings and sprains were quite minor.

I stopped supplemental strength training for a while when practicing aikido, and was rewarded with a very annoying shoulder sprain. I refuse to attribute that to getting older, and am being more diligent now about hitting the weight room as a means of self-preservation.

Anne, let me add my congratulations for developing the necessary discipline to shed those pounds. I was in a similar situation a long time ago; the hardest part for me was getting, and staying, off the couch.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2004, 02:01 AM   #30
drDalek
 
drDalek's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 155
Offline
Unless you can quantify someone's level of sensitivity you cannot say that this and that practice would reduce it.

Its relatively (compared to sensitivity) easy to measure things like speed of movement and flexibility and with the correct weight program these factors are not degraded, infact they can probably be enhanced if you work out a weight program around them.

Just because everyone has this mental image of two WWE "wrestlers" moving like tranquilised slugs and turning like battleships does not mean that weight training would do that to you.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2004, 02:33 AM   #31
Bronson
 
Bronson's Avatar
Dojo: Seiwa Dojo and Southside Dojo
Location: Battle Creek & Kalamazoo, MI
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,677
Offline
Quote:
Wynand van Dyk (drDalek) wrote:
Just because everyone has this mental image of two WWE "wrestlers" moving like tranquilised slugs and turning like battleships...
I'm no fan of BIG TIME RASSLIN' but c'mon, have you seen some of those big guys move?!? Especially the Luciadores...they flip and fly around that ring like lemurs on crack

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2004, 02:42 AM   #32
James Giles
Dojo: North Florida Aikikai
Location: Tallahassee, Florida
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 53
United_States
Offline
To some of you that work out with weights as a supplement to your Aikido training, what specific exercises do you focus on? Squats? Bench press? Curls?

Also, is it better to work out with lighter weights and more repetitions are heavier weights and less repetitions?

I used to be a heavy cigarette smoker and I worked construction. I was slim, but I was flexible and fairly strong. When I quit smoking, I started lifting weights. I chose heavier weights and less repetitions in my workouts. Within a year I bulked up like a gorilla and became a lot stronger, but lost a lot of flexibility.

When I started taking Aikido about six months ago, I tried to rely on my strength for the techniques I was learning. Since then, I have quit lifting weights and I have trimmed down a little bit. I have also regained my flexibility and my techniques have improved with my reduced size.

I know that this may just be a result of more practice, and I am still interested in being strong, I just don't want to be bulky and stiff.

So will working out with light weights and more reps give me strength without bulking up? And if so, can some of you out there give me some suggestions for the types of exercises to do during weight training that will help with Aikido? Thanks, James
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2004, 03:02 AM   #33
Bronson
 
Bronson's Avatar
Dojo: Seiwa Dojo and Southside Dojo
Location: Battle Creek & Kalamazoo, MI
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,677
Offline
So what do some of the exercisey folks here think about getting a weight vest (near bottom of page) and doing aikido while wearing it?

Bronson

p.s. Let's avoid discussions about mat safety and keep to whether it would make for good exercise or not.

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2004, 03:08 AM   #34
darin
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 375
Offline
Re: How many of your weight train...

Quote:
Anne Marie Giri (giriasis) wrote:
...to supplement your aikido?

I'm not talking about body building as in professional body building, but as in typical healthful exercise such as using free weights, dumbbells and aerobics. I've been doing aerobic weight training a la The FIRM And it has been very effective for me in regards to weight loss, strength trianing, improving my stamina and flexibility. This practice has definitely improve my ability to practice aikido. (Of course this is supplement with healthful eating and no-fad diets.)

I'm definently talking the physical side of aikido, here. But how do you all feel about it, because I believe it's a myth that we shouldn't weight train.
People I have trained with said that when I lift weights they can notice that my throws and locks are much stronger despite me not recognizing that I am using more strength.

I usually lift about three times a week, mostly bodybuilding style exercises because I would rather look lean and balanced like a natural bodybuilder than big and bulky like a weight lifter. I also run hard for about 30 mins 4 times a week. I think doing cardio and weights is the best. If I don't I find it difficult to move in aikido because I lack the stamina to cope with the extra weight from bulking up.

People do weights or running for different reasons which may not have anything to do with aikido.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2004, 03:09 AM   #35
drDalek
 
drDalek's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 155
Offline
Quote:
Bronson Diffin (Bronson) wrote:
So what do some of the exercisey folks here think about getting a weight vest (near bottom of page) and doing aikido while wearing it?
So a double layer, heavyweight, sweat drenched canvas gi with massive unwieldy seams and reinforced patches arent heavy enough for you?

Actually it sounds like a cool idea, I often thought about using ankle weights while doing basic tai-sabaki and practicing getting off line with a partner to improve my speed but putting the weight on the torso itself would probably be more likely to strengthen the correct muscles than ankle weights.

Dont shaolin kung-fu guys practice their horse stance chi-gong with wrist weights?
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2004, 03:32 AM   #36
James Giles
Dojo: North Florida Aikikai
Location: Tallahassee, Florida
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 53
United_States
Offline
Re: Re: How many of your weight train...

Quote:
Darin Hyde (darin) wrote:
I usually lift about three times a week, mostly bodybuilding style exercises because I would rather look lean and balanced like a natural bodybuilder than big and bulky like a weight lifter.
What do you mean by bodybuilding style exercises? Do you mean less weight more repetitions. Could you elaborate a little bit on the types of weight lifting exercises you perform? I would really appreciate it because I am interested in lifting weights but I don't want to bulk up. Thanks, James
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2004, 04:05 AM   #37
Chris Birke
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 258
Offline
A weight vest sounds like a great idea, if only for the added endurance.

I don't have enough personal before/after rexpirence to vouch, but I've always been told that nothing prevents injurt (esp from blunt trauma) than having some extra muscle on you (This straight from Royler Gracie, no less). So cheers to that idea.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2004, 06:49 AM   #38
paw
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 768
Offline
James,
Quote:
To some of you that work out with weights as a supplement to your Aikido training, what specific exercises do you focus on? Squats? Bench press? Curls?
Briefly...compound movements (think multi-joint or whole body movements) like squats, deadlifts, bench press, lunges, cleans, snatch, etc...
Quote:
So will working out with light weights and more reps give me strength without bulking up? And if so, can some of you out there give me some suggestions for the types of exercises to do during weight training that will help with Aikido?
Maybe. Light to moderate weights with many reps is basically what bodybuilders use for a general routine to bulk up (well, that and a few other things). Some people gain muscle mass more easily than others, you might be one of those people.

I would, at least experimentally, increasing the weight, decreasing the reps and dropping the volume. Instead of, say: squats, leg press, leg curls, hamstring curls, calf raises...then abs and home. I would try squats (for 5 sets of 5 reps), calf raises, then abs and home.

Also, make sure you're doing complete movements and if necessary use the time savings from you're now shorter routine to add stretching exercises.

Regards,

Paul
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2004, 08:15 AM   #39
giriasis
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Florida
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 819
United_States
Offline
Quote:
So will working out with light weights and more reps give me strength without bulking up?
It has for me, but then again women, in general, have a hard time bulking up at all. I think the key is that you also do flexibility training as well and not let your muscles get tight.
Quote:
And if so, can some of you out there give me some suggestions for the types of exercises to do during weight training that will help with Aikido? Thanks, James
With the workouts I use, there are a lot of squats, dips and lunges, and leg presses (step-ups onto a 14" box). We also do a lot of floor work for the legs as well. These include outer and inner side leg raises, bridge and table work. I found these exercises get my legs strong and has really made doing suwari waza, hanmi handachi and getting up from rolls a lot easier.

Core work includes ab and back exercises these really will help your ukemi. AND, I've also discovered you really learn to find your center this way to. While doing ab exercises I make sure to focus on pulling my navel through to the ground and focus on proper breathing. You breath out on the crunch and in when you go back down. It's better to do your crunches slow and deliberate focusing on form rather than trying to do a 100 ab crunch marathon.

For upper body, pushups and pec-flys for the chest, shoulder presses, delt flys, delt lifts and other shoulder exercises are great to protect your shoulder joints. And biceps curls (double, single, hammer curls) tricep presses (french press and kickbacks) and tricep dips are great for the arms. I've discovered an improved grip strength, and I attribute that to the bicep curls (I use 10 pounders)(I guess I need strong wrists to stabilize the weight).

They way TheFIRM workouts incorporates their reps and sets is that they will do at least two to three sets for a given body part/exercise. The reps with vary their tempo and include pulses for shorter range of motion and then change back to longer range of motion. I'd suggest going to Sports Authority and check out the Body Sculpt video. (you can use a chair or 13-14" tool box for a high step).

The FIRM's main demographic is women but men do benefit from these as well. They have videos that are pure sculpt, pure cardio, and cardio plus sculpt. The cardio plus sculpt videos are their classic style workouts, but may be a little do dancy for a male's taste. (I'd say that for their carido tapes except perhaps Super Cardio(VHS)/Super Cardio Mix[DVD, chaptered and programmable], which is killer for cardio) But I think you can easily enjoy their pure sculpting tapes, just use challenging weights.

Of course you can apply similiar principles at a gym or with your own home gym. You don't have to use the videos. But their a no brainer for me because I don't have to sit an plan out a work out. I just have to pop a tape in.

Last edited by giriasis : 02-27-2004 at 08:22 AM.

Anne Marie Giri
Women in Aikido: a place where us gals can come together and chat about aikido.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2004, 09:05 AM   #40
Mark Mueller
Location: Louisville Kentucky
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 163
Offline
There is a wonderful program called Crossfit which I have been using with great success. The workouts are usually short but intense in nature. The variety is wonderful as they emphasize lifting, gymnastics and body weight exercises. The programs are easy to adapt to your skill level and they provide you with the Workout of the Day (WOD).

Check it out at www.crossfit.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2004, 11:55 PM   #41
James Giles
Dojo: North Florida Aikikai
Location: Tallahassee, Florida
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 53
United_States
Offline
Thanks Paul for responding. You have helped me alot. James
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2004, 12:01 AM   #42
James Giles
Dojo: North Florida Aikikai
Location: Tallahassee, Florida
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 53
United_States
Offline
Thank you very much for responding Anne Marie. That was very kind of both you and Paul for writing out good routines for me. I sincerely appreciate it, and I will make use of them! James
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2004, 12:10 AM   #43
James Giles
Dojo: North Florida Aikikai
Location: Tallahassee, Florida
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 53
United_States
Offline
Thank you Mark for the link. That is really a cool site and I will keep that in mind. Considering my present state of laziness, it kind of wears me out just reading about those workouts! But maybe I can build myself up to that point with a little effort. Take care, James
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2004, 05:58 AM   #44
paw
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 768
Offline
James,

You are most welcome.

Regards,

Paul
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2004, 03:55 PM   #45
giriasis
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Florida
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 819
United_States
Offline
No Problem.

Anne Marie Giri
Women in Aikido: a place where us gals can come together and chat about aikido.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2004, 11:24 PM   #46
Josh Bisker
Dojo: Oberlin Aikikai, and Renshinkan London
Location: Oberlin, OH
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 74
United_States
Offline
MAN have i wanted to try out that weight vest idea. Man. I'm dying to. I'm a little guy, like, pretty small, and I started having knee problems a year ago because my legs were not strong enough to handle martial training; they had been used to never needing to really do work, and had not needed to be strong. now i'm in better shape and am staying there, and no more big knee problems.

I've been wanting to see what it would be like making my muscles train with a heavier body than they are used to; i reckon it would be really good for me physically. i have a silly vision of a weight vest and weighted pads for thighs and upper arms, but at the moment can't even afford the material to try to build the vest (as if i had the technical skill - maybe i'll just go with the bujin one some day).

I think it would be some great training. And if people want to talk real-application or whatever, i know that some other martial styles use weighted stuff with the idea that it improves your speed, so that you would be quick as hell in a real encounter
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2004, 01:00 AM   #47
mantis
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 78
Offline
i'm coming close to 40, and i've noticed that it's harder to stay in shape. i lift a little weight, jump a lot of rope and play basketball every week for the past year, and it helps out a lot!!!

not specifically my aikido training (we don't exert much energy at all), but until you reach this age you don't realise how great you had it in your 20's.

i'm respecting older people more and more each day!
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Handmade Aikido Gifts - Handmade functional ceramic art with aikido themes



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Weight Loss with Aikido Training Jenn Training 23 03-16-2011 03:03 AM
What is Weight Transfer(Taijuuidou)?? Upyu Training 87 10-17-2008 11:13 AM
Deepening Our Training senshincenter General 40 04-24-2006 08:38 PM
Training outside your weight class Ari Bolden General 11 09-14-2003 08:27 PM
Zen poems B4 training! PhiGammaDawg Spiritual 19 11-19-2002 08:17 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:20 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate