Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > AikiWeb System

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-15-2004, 12:01 AM   #1
AikiWeb System
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,318
Offline
AikiWeb Poll for the week of February 15, 2004:

How long do your "warm-up" exercises take in your aikido classes?
  • I don't do aikido
  • No warm-ups
  • 1-5 minutes
  • 6-10 minutes
  • 11-15 minutes
  • 16-20 minutes
  • 21-25 minutes
  • 26-30 minutes
  • 31-35 minutes
  • 36-40 minutes
  • 41-45 minutes
  • 46-50 minutes
  • 51-55 minutes
  • 56-60 minutes
  • Over an hour
Here are the current results.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2004, 05:15 AM   #2
Roger C. Marks
Dojo: Tetsushinkan London
Location: London
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 25
United Kingdom
Offline
Although I returned the reply 21-25 minutes, this only relates to what may be termed specific warm up movements but in truth the warm up continues to include preparatory work for techniques to follow. This may extend the warm up another 30 minutes or more. But maybe the whole of the session is a warm up? (2 hours).
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2004, 10:01 AM   #3
Bronson
 
Bronson's Avatar
Dojo: Seiwa Dojo and Southside Dojo
Location: Battle Creek & Kalamazoo, MI
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,677
Offline
Including ukemi 20-30 minutes.

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2004, 10:36 AM   #4
judd h.
 
judd h.'s Avatar
Location: Wilmington
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 13
Offline
I suppose about 21-25 minutes... I never really pay attention to time while in class!

"We are the leaders of the Free World. That is a role that comes with great responsibility."
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2004, 10:43 AM   #5
rachmass
Dojo: Aikido of Cincinnati/Huron Valley Aikikai
Location: Somerset Michigan
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 794
Offline
Ours are pretty short, about 5-8 minutes of stretches and another 5-10 minutes of ukemi practice, or between 10-20 minutes total. Class is only 60 minutes long....I hope people warm up before class as well.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2004, 06:23 PM   #6
Josh Bisker
Dojo: Oberlin Aikikai, and Renshinkan London
Location: Oberlin, OH
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 74
United_States
Offline
Our sessions are two hours long, but we get about an hour and a half of practive time between laying out and taking up our mats; not including this extra-activity activity, i'd say we take about fifteen minutes to warm up, and then ukemi practice. Then of course there's those days when I think "what the hell technique was I gonna do today?" and then somehow we might take a little longer to stretch out before starting class, hahaha.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2004, 06:40 PM   #7
TomCat
Dojo: American Society of Combat Martial Artists
Location: Abilene, Texas
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 7
Offline
I always figure that if I ever need to use (physical) Aikido, I won't have the opportunity to warm up. For this reason, I rarely do warmups though most of the class does.

Tom
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2004, 08:16 PM   #8
PeterR
 
PeterR's Avatar
Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,044
Japan
Online
15-20 minutes of warm-ups followed by about 20 minutes of drills which I suppose can also be considered warm-ups.


Quote:
Tom Cox (TomCat) wrote:
I always figure that if I ever need to use (physical) Aikido, I won't have the opportunity to warm up. For this reason, I rarely do warm-ups though most of the class does.
I assume that you don't mean you stand around while the rest of the class goes through the paces.

I first heard your reasoning back in my Nippon Kenpo days and on the outside it makes some sort of sense. It did to me at the time. However, it is wrong.

First of all there is no evidence that warming-up decreases your ability to respond when the brown stuff hits the fan and your body is cold. Lots of anecdotal evidence otherwise.

In fact, your warm-up can effect parts of your body that normal training would not and hence increase their ability to respond.

A properly designed warm-up reduces those little unseen injuries that accumulate from practice. Less of those is good especially if Bubba and the boys want to use you as a basketball.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2004, 08:39 PM   #9
sanosuke
Dojo: Seigi Dojo
Location: Jakarta
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 247
Indonesia
Offline
this makes me wonder, is warming up/stretching needed for aikidoka?. One of my seniors said there's no need to warm up in aikido because every technique is stretching/warm up itself. but for me personally i prefer to do a stretching/warm up before we move on to aiki-taiso/ukemi exercise, because when i go straight to aiki-taiso i had a muscle cramp during the end of class.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2004, 10:14 PM   #10
PeterR
 
PeterR's Avatar
Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,044
Japan
Online
I got a question - every poll there is at least one I don't do Aikido answer. Is it the same guy?

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2004, 02:37 AM   #11
happysod
Dojo: Kiburn, London, UK
Location: London
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 899
United Kingdom
Offline
PeterR, nope, I've used that check box myself after reading some of the spiritual essays and deciding my take on what aikido is differs greatly from what is meant by aikido by many other responders, so I accept their distinction.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2004, 02:57 AM   #12
PeterR
 
PeterR's Avatar
Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,044
Japan
Online
Quote:
Ian Hurst (happysod) wrote:
PeterR, nope, I've used that check box myself after reading some of the spiritual essays and deciding my take on what aikido is differs greatly from what is meant by aikido by many other responders, so I accept their distinction.
Love that. Maybe I should start checking that box myself ....... Not.

Not quite ready to view Aikido interpretation as a democracy

Waiting to be ganned from e-budo for my last little outburst.

So Ian - when NOT doing Aikido - do you warm-up?

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2004, 04:20 AM   #13
happysod
Dojo: Kiburn, London, UK
Location: London
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 899
United Kingdom
Offline
PeterR, I'm sure you're the model of tact and diplomacy on e-budo (and how painful is being ganned likely to be? ).

Yes, I warm up when doing whatever I dress up stupidly to do, but I wish I'd read the other responses first as I didn't add ukemi as part of the warm-up. Amazing how people's interpretations differ...
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2004, 05:00 AM   #14
PeterR
 
PeterR's Avatar
Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,044
Japan
Online
Quote:
Ian Hurst (happysod) wrote:
PeterR, I'm sure you're the model of tact and diplomacy on e-budo (and how painful is being ganned likely to be? ).
I've heard that ganning came be excruciating - what they do in Singapore is for wimps. Note to self: use that spell checker.
Quote:
Yes, I warm up when doing whatever I dress up stupidly to do, but I wish I'd read the other responses first as I didn't add ukemi as part of the warm-up. Amazing how people's interpretations differ...
As I indicated in my post I'm not sure drills, including ukemi and the various undo, could be considered warm-up although they serve the same function. The drills really are skill development and often we will interject them between techniques just to get the blood racing a little bit. We want to stay warm for the randori at the end of class.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2004, 06:51 AM   #15
paw
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 768
Offline
30 minutes of warm ups sounds very long, even for a two hour class. Personally, I'd rather have a two minute warm up, then 28 minutes of strength and conditioning training.

To be clear, a warm up is a routine used to prepare the body for work. Generally, this is done by increasing the body temperature with full body movements. This should not be a terribly difficult task, it should be something the individual can do. (For example, jogging or jumping rope)

For strength and conditioning training, I'm referring to a routine where some facet of athleticism would be increased. This will be a challenging activity, and it might be such that is the individual struggles to complete it. (Body weight exercises --- push ups, squats, yoga, pilates; Anaerobic/Aerobic conditioning --- high intensity intervals, etc....)

That's just my personal opinion. YMMV.

Regards,

Paul
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2004, 07:03 AM   #16
happysod
Dojo: Kiburn, London, UK
Location: London
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 899
United Kingdom
Offline
Quote:
That's just my personal opinion
yeah, but if anyone disagrees you'll hit them with so many websites/references they'll be sorry... anyway, have you and Kevin come up with that fabled ukemi warm-up yet?
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2004, 08:25 AM   #17
paw
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 768
Offline
Ian,
Quote:
yeah, but if anyone disagrees you'll hit them with so many websites/references they'll be sorry
Not this time. I view warm ups and class formats as personal preferences. How people want to train is fine with me...you pay your money, you make your choice.

The only time I'll start throwin' down on the web sites is when someone says "our class format is the best/is geared for/is optimal for <whatever>" ..... That's another story.
Quote:
have you and Kevin come up with that fabled ukemi warm-up yet?
Was I suppposed to?

Here's a two minute Warm Up:

1. Pick 4 - 6 bodyweight movements/exercises

2. Have a countdown timer

3. Divide two minutes by the total number

of movements you choose, and work

continously from one exercise to another

for the entire two minutes.

Example: squat thrusts, jumping jacks, mountain climbers, jumping rope

Do each movement for 30 seconds (each person can go as fast or as slow as want, but they must keep moving)

Warm up by:

1. jump rope (or hop in place)

2. jumping jacks

3. mountain climbers

4. squat thrusts

Ukemi/Tumbling Sequence (this is more of a drill to work on body mechanics...aikidoists don't need to be gymnasts....work from easy movements to harder movements....be continuous in movement, no pausing from one to another)

1. forward roll

2. backward roll

3. forward roll, pivot, backward roll

4. backward roll, pivot, forward roll

5. backward roll, pivot, forward roll, jump

6. backward roll pushing up to handstand

7. cartwheel

8. tripod, push up to headstand, overbalance

to forward roll

etc......

you can do partner work too like: wheelbarrows, piggyback carry, bear crawl dragging partner, etc....

when waiting for your turn for the next sequence, hop or jog in place

Anyway, these are just ideas. Change, combine, discard and explore.

Regards,

Paul
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2004, 10:17 AM   #18
Bronson
 
Bronson's Avatar
Dojo: Seiwa Dojo and Southside Dojo
Location: Battle Creek & Kalamazoo, MI
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,677
Offline
Quote:
Peter Rehse (PeterR) wrote:
I'm not sure drills, including ukemi and the various undo
If I break it down I get about 5 min. of stretching (the strething is really more range of motion movement with a pause at the outer edge); 15 min. of undo; and 5-10 min. of ukemi depending on what I want to have them do that night.

Our classes our 1 1/2 hours so that leaves us with a full hour for technique practice.

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2004, 04:50 PM   #19
Joanne Arnest
Dojo: Oberlin Aikikai
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 19
United_States
Offline
I think our warmups are about 10 to 15 minutes long, depending upon who is teaching. Sometimes we do some ukemi afterwards. Warmups were a bit longer on the days when the sensei asked one of the students who does yoga to lead us in some yoga stretches and breathing excercises.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2004, 06:13 PM   #20
G DiPierro
Location: Ohio
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 365
United_States
Offline
I usually do about 5 minutes or less of warm-ups, then maybe some rolls or something like shikko practice, as I did today. Also, I usually do several repetitions of the first technique as a "back stretch" without a fall since I think it helps to ease into moving with a partner without having to hit the mat right away.

However, at the end of class I take another 5 to 10 minutes for stretching. This is different from warm-ups as it is slow and relaxing. Warm-ups are much faster and designed to get the blood moving and the muscles warm. Although many dojos engage in it, I don't see much point in slow, meditative stretching at the beginning of class since that is actually a cool-down, not a warm-up. I save that for the end of class, and I find it makes a significant difference in how I feel the rest of the day. If I don't stretch after class, I get noticeably tight afterward, so whenever I am at a seminar or visiting another dojo, I normally take several minutes after class to stretch on my own. The best time and place for this is right on the mat since the muscles are still warm. Once they have chance to cool down and tighten up, it is much harder to stretch them back out again.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2004, 09:11 PM   #21
TomCat
Dojo: American Society of Combat Martial Artists
Location: Abilene, Texas
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 7
Offline
Quote:
Peter Rehse (PeterR) wrote:

I assume that you don't mean you stand around while the rest of the class goes through the paces.
No, I generally sit in seiza and meditate. I also stretch throughout the day.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2004, 12:19 AM   #22
PeterR
 
PeterR's Avatar
Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,044
Japan
Online
Quote:
Tom Cox (TomCat) wrote:
No, I generally sit in seiza and meditate. I also stretch throughout the day.
Not picking on you Tom - just in the mood and hopefully Jun will use this as next week's poll.

Besides a tenuous connection to Mu Aikido and Zen meditation are diametrically opposed - if not in goal in method. There was quite an ugly discussion here just recently about the relationship between Zen and Budo and I'm really not interested in going back there but I really wonder why anyone would come to an Aikido class to meditate. The privacy of your own home or a mediation class if you prefer is far more appropriate.

Mokuso, the short meditation before and at the end of class, really is more of a clearing of mind and preparation for class rather than meditation proper.

Warm-ups on the other hand are part of the Aikido class and why on earth anyone would put themselves above the group and pointedly do something else is beyond me.

I'm generally pretty laid back about class but I'd have something to say about it.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2004, 01:06 AM   #23
Bronson
 
Bronson's Avatar
Dojo: Seiwa Dojo and Southside Dojo
Location: Battle Creek & Kalamazoo, MI
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,677
Offline
I'm with Peter on this one. Barring the existance of an injury or something similar that prevents you from doing certain motions, do what the class is doing.

Just my opinion though.

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2004, 08:56 AM   #24
MaryKaye
Dojo: Seattle Ki Society
Location: Seattle
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 522
Offline
We do about five minutes of stretches and between five and fifteen minutes of drills and ukemi practice. At beginners' classes the instructors always say that this is not enough warmup and people should stretch before class. I usually stretch my feet, which otherwise cramp up.

Some of the senior people feel free to skip warmups. As a very junior student I wouldn't do this, but I also know from painful experience that if I don't warm up, I'll hurt myself. I don't know if it's the physical stretching or the mental centering or both.

Our full set of hitori waza is too many for an hour-long class unless they are taken at high speed; we usually do eight to ten of the twenty.

I was a guest at a dojo with a much more physical and high-energy style. They did far more warm-ups and stretches, and took them much faster. I wondered why, till we got to the techniques....

Mary Kaye
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2004, 05:51 PM   #25
Janet Rosen
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Janet Rosen's Avatar
Location: Left Coast
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 3,933
Offline
I like to warm up before stretching by walking a block or two then once in the dojo by doing small forward rolls in 8 directions. This warms me up in aikido movements while giving me an opportunity to do a checkin and feel how my body is doing, any aches, rough spots, etc. Then I stretch major muscle groups. In middle age I need to do these things.

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Poll: How long do you think a shodan exam in aikido should take? AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 17 04-27-2006 11:31 AM
Dilution of aikido eugene_lo General 40 02-07-2006 11:22 AM
Omoto-kyo Theology senshincenter Spiritual 77 12-04-2005 09:50 PM
Poll: How much do you pay each month for your regular aikido classes (in US dollars)? AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 18 08-27-2005 07:45 AM
Poll: Which art do you think is more physically effective - judo or aikido? AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 31 06-05-2005 09:00 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:47 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate