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Old 02-21-2004, 12:36 PM   #1
thomanil
Dojo: OSI Aikido
Location: Oslo
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 10
Norway
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Kenjutsu + Aikido?

Hello,

One small problem with my "home" dojo is that we do very little weapon work. Some of the senior instructors have some aikiken experience, but they very rarely teach it. Having practised for 6-7 years (just graded shodan), I feel it's high time I got a bit more weapon
experience.
The possibility of aikiken being taught regularily at our dojo seems slim, though.

Plan B then is to go elsewhere for regular weapons practice. There is a kobudo/kenjutsu dojo here in Oslo; they practice Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu. I'll probably visit them soon and ask if they do beginner's classes this semester. :-)

My question: what are your experiences with kenjutsu (katori shinto ryu or otherwise) as a "compliment" to standard aikido practice?
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Old 02-21-2004, 12:45 PM   #2
Steven
 
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Dojo: Aikido Yoshinkan Sacramento - Seikeikan Dojo
Location: Orangevale, CA
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 608
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Re: Kenjutsu + Aikido?

Quote:
Thomas Nilsson (thomanil) wrote:
I feel it's high time I got a bit more weapon

experience.
Why?
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Old 02-21-2004, 01:00 PM   #3
thomanil
Dojo: OSI Aikido
Location: Oslo
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 10
Norway
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Re: Re: Kenjutsu + Aikido?

Quote:
Steven Miranda (Steven) wrote:
Why?
Learning how to cut properly can't hurt, can it?
Apart from that, I have the impression that regular weapon practice can provide some additional points on maai etc..


Last edited by thomanil : 02-21-2004 at 01:08 PM.
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Old 02-21-2004, 04:30 PM   #4
Thalib
 
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Dojo: 合気研究会
Location: Jakarta Selatan
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 504
Indonesia
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Kashima Shin-ryu Kenjutsu is a good supplement for Aikido.

Inaba Minoru Sensei of Kashima Shin-ryu, Meiji Jingu, Tokyo, displays a good translation of Kenjutsu to Taijutsu (unarmed technique) Aikido. He gives a very good explanation of Aiki, not just in Taijutsu but in Kenjutsu as well.

I believe that there are some Aikiweb members that practice Aikido and Kashima Shin-ryu as well. Maybe they could explain it better than I could. I'm not a Kashima Shin-ryu practitioner, I only know Kashima Shin-ryu from when Inaba Sensei visited Indonesia.

I wish I could have trained with him and his students more.

When I have to die by the sword, I will do so with honor.
--------
http://funkybuddha.multiply.com/
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Old 02-21-2004, 05:26 PM   #5
MaryKaye
Dojo: Seattle Ki Society
Location: Seattle
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 522
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I used to bitch about the amount of weapons training we do, as I don't find it nearly as interesting as the body arts.

Recently I was repeatedly botching a barehand shihonage. Sensei came by, looked at me, and said, "You know, that's a bokken cut. Turn around in one movement, cut down." Voila! In general it's slowly becoming apparent why my seniors say the weapon arts complement the body arts. So I should probably stop bitching.

Good luck with your search.

Mary Kaye
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Old 02-22-2004, 02:20 AM   #6
WylMorris
Dojo: Field Aikido Balwyn
Location: Melbourne
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 19
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At our dojo, weapons work is taught fiarly frequently, but we rearely have a hole class on it. However, our Senpai freqquently make a point on how weapons work can enhance what we do with our Taejutsu.

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Old 02-22-2004, 03:07 AM   #7
G DiPierro
Location: Ohio
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 365
United_States
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Re: Kenjutsu + Aikido?

Quote:
Thomas Nilsson (thomanil) wrote:
Plan B then is to go elsewhere for regular weapons practice. There is a kobudo/kenjutsu dojo here in Oslo; they practice Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu. I'll probably visit them soon and ask if they do beginner's classes this semester. :-)
That's a good plan. Generally speaking, the weapons work you will find in koryu is vastly superior to what you will find in aikido. I think you will actually be quite lucky if you are able to learn TSKSR instead of what usually passes as "aiki-ken." Make sure you do your research, though, as legitimate koryu are much different in structure from aikido. They are usually very selective about enrollment and don't do "beginner's classes." With your experience, if you were seriously interested in making a long-term study of the art, you should be fine, but it's still wise to make sure you know what you are getting into. I recommend starting at koryu.com and then looking into purchasing the three-volume series from Koryu books, both of Ellis Amdur's books, and possibly Karl Friday's Legacies of the Sword. That will give you a good start, but if you still have more questions let me know and I can suggest some other resources that might help.
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Old 02-23-2004, 12:20 AM   #8
Jamie Stokes
Dojo: Kenkyu Kai
Location: Australia
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 62
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Weapons training is definitely needed in training.

they act as a magnifier for body movement.

If you have a "wobble" in your strikes, bokken/ jo/ katana so forth will signal them.

they also encourage learning of Ma Ai: timing and space.

And here is the odd thing.

you are training to do , say, koete gaeshi, after a thrust to the stomach, everyone does fine.

Add a tanto to ukes hand, and everyones technique becomes sharper.

shouldn't, but because we "know" there is now a weapon, well, gosh, everyone suddenly performs fantastic technique.

weapons training is definitely a complement to training.

Gambatte imasu. (go for it)

Warmest regards,

Jamie Stokes.
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Old 02-24-2004, 04:45 PM   #9
thomanil
Dojo: OSI Aikido
Location: Oslo
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 10
Norway
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Thank you for all your feedback! I've assimilated a fair bit of the information at koryu.com as per Giancarlos advice.

Will contact the katori shinto ryu dojo soon. I'll start attending their classes if they will take me (and I'm able to devote enough time..) :-)

Last edited by thomanil : 02-24-2004 at 04:51 PM.

Thomas Kjeldahl Nilsson
Oslo, Norway
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Old 02-25-2004, 03:43 AM   #10
JJF
 
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Dojo: Vestfyn Aikikai Denmark
Location: Vissenbjerg
Join Date: Jul 2000
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Denmark
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Hi Thomas!

In the danish aikikai we integrate ken and jo work in our aikido practice a long with a set of iai-do Kata's created by Nishio sensei (aiki-to-ho). I think getting to know how to use the sword, and to some extend the jo as well, is a very important part of learning how to do good aikido, so I really think you should go to that ken-jutsu dojo. Since you have a fair bit of experience in aikido, it should be possible for you to separate the two martial arts - and to integrate them where it's possible.

If you want to experience what we do here in Denmark you could join us at the annual easter camp - this year it's in Copenhagen. Read more about it on www.aikikai.dk. I guarantee there will be lots and lots of bokken, iaito and jo techniques

- Jørgen Jakob Friis

Inspiration - Aspiration - Perspiration
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Old 03-12-2004, 06:26 AM   #11
Robert Cowham
Dojo: East Sheen Aikido and Kashima No Tachi
Location: London, UK
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 245
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We study KSR as taught by Inaba sensei here in London (note that he is not part of official KSR having studied with previous headmaster). See http://www.movingeast.co.uk/tetsushinkan/

I find that it has helped my taijutsu enormously and has taught me a lot about how to coordinate my body movement.

There are people at the Tenshinkan dojo in Oslo who have also studied with Inaba sensei, in particular Atle Riise. Why don't you get in touch with him?

Failing that, many forms of kenjutsu are likely to be of benefit.

Robert
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