Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-09-2004, 03:49 PM   #1
Jack Robertson
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 64
Offline
A dojo in my area!!!

Hi everyone! I'm thinking about joining this dojo:

http://www.ctaikido.com/

Does anyone know anything about the sensai of this dojo, Bob Liedke?

Any comments would be appreciated.

Thanks.

 
Old 02-09-2004, 04:27 PM   #2
rachmass
Dojo: Aikido of Cincinnati/Huron Valley Aikikai
Location: Somerset Michigan
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 794
Offline
If you are anywhere near Litchfield Hills I can highly recommend someone!

I had a student once who practiced for ten years with Mr. Leidke, and her aikido was very weak and sloppy (except her killer sankyo).
 
Old 02-09-2004, 06:31 PM   #3
Jack Robertson
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 64
Offline
Ah litchfield hills must not be close, I've never heard of it.

The dojo I mentioned above is about 5 miles from me so I was hoping it would be good.

What you said about your student practicing under him for 10 years and having weak and sloppy aikido is not good news

Was this student a very dedicated student and was she dedicated 10 years ago?
 
Old 02-09-2004, 06:53 PM   #4
Jack Robertson
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 64
Offline
Also, on the URL in my original post, there is a photo/video section with short clips. They look pretty impressive to me! But I am by no means an aikido expert so can anyone clear that up for me?

He has a high rank too, he's 6th or 7th dan.
 
Old 02-09-2004, 07:58 PM   #5
Bronson
 
Bronson's Avatar
Dojo: Seiwa Dojo and Southside Dojo
Location: Battle Creek & Kalamazoo, MI
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,677
Offline
Quote:
Rachel Massey (rachmass) wrote:
I had a student once who practiced for ten years with Mr. Leidke, and her aikido was very weak and sloppy (except her killer sankyo).
IMO you can't really judge a teacher by one student. That would be like judging an entire style (for lack of a better word) based on one affiliated dojo.

We have people in our dojo with 2 or 3 years experience who,in many ways, are better than some of our 10 & 12 yr students, because they try harder than these particluar older students ever did.

The teacher can only be held responsible for so much, the student has to meet the teacher halfway and actually try to apply what is being taught....which is no easy feat

Rachel's a smart lady and I'm not saying to dismiss her warning, but with it in mind go watch a few classes, if what they are doing appeals to you, do it. If it doesn't appeal, find something else.

Bronson

p.s. If you spend a little time and do some web searching you can find skads of aikido videos with which to compare.

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
 
Old 02-09-2004, 08:52 PM   #6
rachmass
Dojo: Aikido of Cincinnati/Huron Valley Aikikai
Location: Somerset Michigan
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 794
Offline
You are right Bronson, I did ask him to contact me off line so I could explain the situation. And yes, you cannot judge a teacher from one student.
 
Old 02-09-2004, 10:00 PM   #7
SteveTrinkle
Dojo: Aikido Kenkyukai International
Location: Ambler, Pennsylvania
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 232
United_States
Offline
Aikido in CT

You could also check out Shobu Aikido at this URL: http://www.shobu.org/ct.htm Gleason Sensei is amazing and his student Rob Liberti is wonderful to train with. Gleason Sensei's first teacher was Yamaguchi Shihan.
 
Old 02-09-2004, 10:15 PM   #8
AmyGilgan
Dojo: Suginami Aikikai
Location: San Francisco, CA
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 12
United_States
Offline
You might also check out Connecticut Aikikai

in New Haven.

http://www.ctaikikai.com

Also, remember that many dojos will let you observe classes. The more dojos you visit, the more you'll be able to determine what training style interests you.
 
Old 02-10-2004, 04:28 AM   #9
rachmass
Dojo: Aikido of Cincinnati/Huron Valley Aikikai
Location: Somerset Michigan
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 794
Offline
Quote:
You might also check out Connecticut Aikikai
Ditto, Mike Sidebottom is great! Wow, haven't seen him for years, didn't know he was in CT. Lots of good aikido in your area.

Jacob's Pavlick sensei is a little far, about 33 miles in Lichtfield Hills. I can voutch for both Mike Sidebottom as well as Laura Jacob's Pavlick and would suggest you check both of them out, as well as the others folks here had suggested. With the wealth of aikido you have in the area, don't be hasty to pick something nearest to you; pick something that "feels" right, and that is why I suggest looking at all of them.

Jack, I sent you a private email but haven't gotten a response. You can send me a private message if you would like.
 
Old 02-10-2004, 01:12 PM   #10
Jack Robertson
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 64
Offline
Hi Rachel. Do private emails go to my registered email address? If so, my email provider recently just deleted my inbox for heck knows why. Your email was probably in that inbox when it was deleted, which is probably why I didn't get it

Also, I saw CT aikikai and it's also about 5-6 miles away. So I'll be looking into it!

I've got a question though. What is aikikai? Is it a style of aikido? If so, what are the details of that style?

Thanks: )
 
Old 02-10-2004, 01:45 PM   #11
rachmass
Dojo: Aikido of Cincinnati/Huron Valley Aikikai
Location: Somerset Michigan
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 794
Offline
Hi Jack, yes, aikikai is a style of aikido, just like yoshinkan, or kokokai, or ki society. My email address is rachmass@provide.net contact me there.
 
Old 02-10-2004, 02:41 PM   #12
Jack Simpson
Dojo: Western Maryland Aikikai - Frederick, Maryland
Location: hangin' with the tengu in the "mountains" of Maryland
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 91
Offline
Jack,

Another use of the term "aikikai" is loosely translated to "aiki association". Hence, many dojos have the term Aikikai as part of their name, ie, New York Aikikai, San Diego Aikikai, etc. And it simply means a place where aikido is done or headquartered.

As Rachel pointed out, more recently, "aikikai" not as part of a dojo name, has started to be associated with a particular "style" of aikido as practiced by Hombu dojo and such noteable shihan as Yamada Sensei (NY Aikikai), Kanai Sensei (New England Aikikai) and Chiba Sensei (San Diego Aikikai). There are other "styles" including Iwama, yoshinkai, etc, as previously mentioned.

Good luck with your training and visit as many dojos as you can. That's the best way to know what the right fit for you is going to be.

Best Regards,

Jack

P.S. Nice to have another Jack in the aikido community.
 
Old 02-10-2004, 04:10 PM   #13
aikidoc
Dojo: Aikido of Midland
Location: Midland Texas
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,652
United_States
Offline
Master Liedke info: 6th degree in Nihon Aiki-Jutsu(Aikido), 4th degree in Kokon-Ryu Aikido. I don't know anything about those two styles of aikido-you might want to check out their history, etc. Who set them up? Aiki-jutsu generally means it is an aiki-jitsu related art but does not always mean it is aikido. I am not familiar with kokon ryu aikido. My recommendation is to always check credentials-you can always verify rank with a hombu dojo (aikikai) affiliate with Japan.
 
Old 02-10-2004, 04:18 PM   #14
aikidoc
Dojo: Aikido of Midland
Location: Midland Texas
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,652
United_States
Offline
P.S. you might want to check out EBudo. I believe there might be some stuff there on the search section for this group. I believe some of this is affiliated with Thomas Burdine. Lots of Soke's in the group as well as high ranking instructors. You can type in names on the search and get any dialogues.

Be cautious. Some of the soke organizations are people who get together and set up their own organization and recognize themselves and then have a lot of high ranks and sokeship awards-seems like a conflict of interest to me with some of them. Especially when you check and see they have rarely held rank above 3rd or 4th dan in recognized arts and suddenly become 10th dans or sokes (rare in traditional aikido and aiki arts)
 
Old 02-10-2004, 04:30 PM   #15
aikidoc
Dojo: Aikido of Midland
Location: Midland Texas
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,652
United_States
Offline
Here is the link on Burdine and those associated with him. From what I can tell, the group you referenced is affiliated. Some interesting reading in the thread.

http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/show...hlight=burdine.
 
Old 02-10-2004, 04:39 PM   #16
giriasis
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Florida
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 819
United_States
Offline
Jack,

Your PM is accessible through this bulletin board, so if Rachel sent your a private message you should be able to go to your "user control panel" and access it there.

After looking at the site, I suggest looking around some more, too. I don't see anywhere in his site where he links to a larger organization. In fact, his links page includes just about every aikido link you can find on the internet. Most aikido web pages link to their main affiliated organization such as AAA, USAF, Sanddrift, etc. But not like that.

Anne Marie Giri
Women in Aikido: a place where us gals can come together and chat about aikido.
 
Old 02-10-2004, 04:50 PM   #17
Jack Robertson
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 64
Offline
Whoaaaaaa interesting stuff John!!! Holy moly!! I was foolish to just look at his rank without questioning it. I've heard that an American with 6th dan rank must be REALLY good!!

I'm so happy I posted this thread in here. I was going to join the dojo..... but now im going to CT Aikikai!!!

HUGE thanks to everyone for their help !!!
 
Old 02-11-2004, 09:00 AM   #18
Jack Simpson
Dojo: Western Maryland Aikikai - Frederick, Maryland
Location: hangin' with the tengu in the "mountains" of Maryland
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 91
Offline
Jack,

You're not going to go wrong at CT Aikikai, rock solid aikido. Have fun and train hard. Hope to see you on mat sometime.

Best Regards,

Jack
 
Old 02-11-2004, 10:47 AM   #19
aikidoc
Dojo: Aikido of Midland
Location: Midland Texas
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,652
United_States
Offline
In my experience, it is always good to really check credentials. Especially if they have lofty credentials and do not advertise any connection with a major organization. It's good even then to check-in my short career, I have run into three people claiming ranks that could not be verified. One had claimed shodan rank with hombu-that was checked and found to not be true-of course there were a lot of excuses about what happened.

Unfortunately, the martial arts are not immune from frauds and self aggrandization. Good luck in your training.
 
Old 02-11-2004, 10:54 AM   #20
aikidoc
Dojo: Aikido of Midland
Location: Midland Texas
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,652
United_States
Offline
P.S. High ranks are frequently awarded by some of the soke organizations I have seen. To give a good example of what happens-there was one aikido person who wrote a book (not that great) and "developed" his own style of aikido from aikido and other arts. He listed as a 10th dan. When you check his background you will find he was never awarded more than a 3rd or 4th dan (don't recall off the top of my head) by a legitimate aikido organization. Of course, when you develop your own style and set up the guidelines, it is easy to make your bylaws such that you are a 10th dan-there are very few 10th dans in the aikido world. The aikikai had 3: Tohei, Abe and Hikitsuchi (recently deceased) senseis. I do not know about the other mainstream aikido organizations. There are also very few 7th dans in the aikikai that are not Japanese (and this is recent)-Seagal, Doran, Witt, Nadeau, etc.
 
Old 04-20-2004, 01:23 PM   #21
PeaceHeather
Dojo: hopefully Purdue Aikido Club
Location: Indiana
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 158
United_States
Offline
Lightbulb Re: A dojo in my area!!!

Hullo all,

First post to this forum. Hi!

I joined this forum because I was interested in joining the local dojo, chose to do homework on its sensei (I've had bad martial experiences in the past, and I agree that you can't be too careful), and found this thread. My local dojo is headed by Prof. Burdine.

For those of you who need your grain of salt (and I don't blame you), I will say that I haven't yet taken my first lesson at this dojo -- so if you like, you can say I don't know what I'm talking about, and that's fine. It is true that I'm not an experienced martial artist. However, I have spent the past month doing my homework, talking with Burdine personally, and visiting the dojo to observe his lessons.

You know how you can walk into a dojo and kind of get a "feel" for how the place operates, maybe a good vibe or a bad vibe? My "vibes" are based on my observations of the dojo, its mood, the mood and attitudes of its students and senseis, and so on. And I gotta tell ya, for this dojo, everything feels "right" to me.

I don't know the political history or legal stuff that is referenced over at E-Budo that John has listed here; but I decided to dig deeper in my homework, looking for anything definite about Burdine (as opposed to speculation, no offense), and looking for anything positive, to see if there was any sort of balance to the cautionary posts already listed in this thread.

Doing a search on "burdine aikido", I found the following links:

http://www.samuraiway.com/thanks.htm
Acknowledgements listing; single reference to Burdine.

http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/6471/
World Headfounders/Headfamilies Council. Page hasn't been updated since 1996, but does explain the requisites for membership in WHC. Lists Burdine as the 3rd WHC president, elected in 1995.

http://www.bodygolf.com/bodygolf/tao-bio.htm
Biography, single reference to Burdine; single reference to Kokon Ryu

http://www.kokonryu.com/bios/
Listing of several biographies, including one for Burdine. With more time I would like to research the bio for Chotoku Kyan, 1870-1945; might be able to find a lineage there.

http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/show...e&pagenumber=4
E-Budo thread about Burdine; most of the posts are cautious or negative. The only positive on the thread is also apparently the only post by an actual former student. Maybe the student is biased; maybe the non-students are only speculating about Burdine's reputation without actually knowing him.

http://www.aiki.com/directory/ddi-p.htm
Aikido Today Magazine: Dojo Directory 2004. The street address listed is probably for Burdine's home, since the dojo itself is located on 4th Street. The phone number and email are accurate, and are definitely for his home; I have used both in the past month, have received replies via both -- and in any case, the dojo doesn't have a telephone. I would encourage anyone with questions about Burdine's lineage, ranks, or affiliations to contact him directly.

http://juliancollege.com/instructors.html
Listed as 5th dan and "Dairi Kyojo", possibly this art's equivalent of "shihan"

"Official list of Shoden, Chuden, and Okuden menjo holders in Saigo-Ha Daito-Ryu Aiki Jujutsu (under authority of Dr. John J. Williams) -- We are listing these students in yudansha ranking, but they are also listed in the traditional Mokoroku Menjo licenses."

http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forumdisplay/f-25.html
http://www.martialartsplanet.com/for...?threadid=6776
Short thread, positive comments about Burdine from a former student

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...364409-5728622
http://www.bomi.info/books/aikido.htm
Identical book reviews written by Prof. Burdine; these are the only references online that I have been able to find that were written *by* Burdine, as opposed to *about* him.

http://www.maotw.com/list/ma01.html
Listing of martial arts and founders

http://www.brattleboroschoolofbudo.c...to_gallery.htm
Every time Soke Burdine is shown, the dojo is listed as "Indy" meaning Indianapolis; however, I recognize the interior of this dojo, and it's in Lafayette, about an hour north of Indy. This is Burdine's dojo. (For some reason in Indiana, it's common to generalize the radius of a city like this.) In all photos, he's the oldest man present, white hair, glasses, big smile in many of them. For those rolling their eyes at the bright red gi, I will point out that in all but one photo in this gallery, his gi is good old-fashioned white. In person, I have never actually seen the red gi, and I suspect that it was used for posed publicity photos and nothing else. The gi and belt that I have seen him wear looks about as old as he does...

http://www.kobudokan.net/Kleppin_Soke_Bio.shtml
Multiple references to Burdine as one of this man's instructors.

http://www.martial-arts-network.com/guestmar.htm
Single guestbook entry referring to Burdine.

http://www.sanchaina.bizland.com/id2.html
http://www.shaolinarts.com/pages/history.html
http://www.freewebs.com/kenpoexchange/peopleofkenpo.htm
Nearly identical biographies, single reference to Burdine.

I'll let people draw their own conclusions about Thomas Burdine -- as I've said, I barely know the man, I'm not a disciple of his or anything like that, and I'm only about to start lessons tomorrow afternoon (*white belt nerves*!!). But in the past month, speaking from direct personal observation, I'll say that I'm feeling pretty favorable about him, the other blackbelts who teach (one day each week, when he is not present), and the general mood of the class.

My intent here is just to present as much information as possible, and let people decide for themselves -- or, if it's important to you and you're still looking for more information, Burdine's contact info is listed in the links above.

Peace, all, and wish me luck with and happy landings.

Heather
 
Old 04-20-2004, 01:37 PM   #22
aikidocapecod
Dojo: Shobu Aikido Cape Cod
Location: Cape Cod, Massachusetts
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 152
United_States
Offline
Re: A dojo in my area!!!

I have to agree with Stephen...he mentioned Rob Liberti. He is an excellent instructor. When I have trained with him I have found him to be very patient. I, like Rob, am a student of Bill Gleson Sensei. Gleason Sensei makes frequent visits to Liberti Sensei's dojos in Ct. So Liberti Sensei's students get some wonderful instruction.

If you can, give Rob a try before making a decision....

Good Luck
 
Old 04-23-2004, 01:05 PM   #23
PeaceHeather
Dojo: hopefully Purdue Aikido Club
Location: Indiana
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 158
United_States
Offline
Re: A dojo in my area!!!

I found something else about Soke Burdine, in case you're still curious...

http://www.brattleboroschoolofbudo.c...eageAikido.htm

*shrug*
Heather
 
Old 04-23-2004, 02:14 PM   #24
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
Offline
Re: A dojo in my area!!!

Mike Sidebottom is excellent. If I was in that area, I'd ask him to except me as a student.

Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
 
Old 11-20-2004, 06:49 PM   #25
rob_liberti
Dojo: Shobu Aikido of Connecticut
Location: East Haven, CT
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,402
United_States
Offline
Re: A dojo in my area!!!

I've researched this a bit over the years... At one point Mr. Liedke was wearing a white hakama and had promoted himself to 8th dan in Godokai aikido - a system he created. He did get promoted to shodan in aikido by ANOTHER SHODAN in aikido named Joel who was more in to karate. Apaprently, they taped the test and sent it to New York with the testing fee. Prior to that, his last official rank was 3rd kyu from an unaffliated dojo primarily teaching Korean arts.

According to his website, now he is a 7th degree blackbelt in samari something or other and has a 4th dan aikido rank. I liked it a lot better when he was saying he was teaching his own style. I go to seminars all over, and I almost never see his students anywhere - and never twice. I feel bad for them. He has over 100 students paying good money for his instruction, too.

Aikido is very lacking in quality control. Fraud hurts people and needs to be called for what it is.

Rob
 

Please visit our sponsor:

Budo Bear Patterns - Sewing pattern for Women's (and Men's) dogi.



Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Aikido And the military. Gallu General 34 11-24-2009 11:07 AM
multiple teachers in one dojo darin General 25 03-09-2005 10:01 AM
Different dojo populations... Hanna B Training 26 10-22-2004 01:16 PM
Choosing a Dojo binature General 7 05-03-2002 01:56 PM
Looking for intensive courses in SE Asia John Yeldham General 5 03-25-2002 02:16 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:32 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate