Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-16-2004, 01:22 PM   #1
John Boswell
 
John Boswell's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Midland
Location: Midland, Texas
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 597
United_States
Offline
How to prevent drop-outs?

I have heard many stories about people training for short periods and then leaving. I'm sure this is common in any martial art, but I'm curious mostly about aikido of course.

What would you consider to be SOME of the most important issues in keeping high attendence and good growth rate in an aikido dojo? What would you consider to be THE most important factor?

Ya gotta admit, learning ukemi isn't the most exciting thing in the world. However, some dojo's tend to thrive more than others. Why might this be??

Now... looking at the flip side, what might one consider to be The main or A main factor in running students off?

Just looking for other perspectives on this. Thanks!!

Last edited by John Boswell : 01-16-2004 at 01:25 PM.

  Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2004, 11:33 PM   #2
Bronson
 
Bronson's Avatar
Dojo: Seiwa Dojo and Southside Dojo
Location: Battle Creek & Kalamazoo, MI
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,677
Offline
IMO people often leave when they realize just how much work and time must be commited to get "good". This doesn't only apply to aikido but that's what we're talking about. I'm the same way with music, I'd love to be able to play but not enough to actually commit the time and effort to learn.

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2004, 03:51 AM   #3
indomaresa
Dojo: Aiki Kenkyukai
Location: Indonesia
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 176
Offline
here's what I gather as the reason for high attendace

1.regularly training sempais, and lots of them

2.enough variety in training (hard and relaxed, technical and philosophical)

3.fewer senior jerks

4.more interaction outside the dojo

basically, dojo chemistry / spirit is what's important. And the ingredients are the 4 points above.

The road is long...
The path is steep...
So hire a guide to show you the shortcuts
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2004, 11:24 AM   #4
Andrew James
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 14
France
Offline
Hi,

I actually dropped out about 4 months ago. I still have a strong interest in Aikido, but apart from the club I attended, there isn't another aikido club for about 1 hours drive from where I live, so I haven't been able to take it up elsewhere.

The reason I dropped out was that I found there was not enough done to help the beginners. When we were required to find a partner I noticed that the senior aikidoka and even other students often avoided training with us beginners because we often make mistakes etc.

I found that newbies were starting to drift away so I mentioned this to the Sensei, who was very understanding, suggesting to him that there be two groupes during the class, one led by himself for the seniors and the other, by a senior student, for the beginners. He said that he didn't think it would be possible, but he did talk to us all during the next lesson saying that it was good to train with beginners as the fact that we 'didn't have a clue' should be seen as a challenge for the more advanced student.

For about a month it seemed to get better with more explanation from both the sensei and the other students, but the novelty soon wore off, and it went back to being like before.

During the time I trained (10 months in total)I did actually learn quite quickly, but I found it frustrating always having to train with other beginners because the other guys found that training with newbies to be boring. Its not easy training with someone who is continually sighing and who takes a pleasure throwing you as hard as possible onto the ground - so I dropped out.

However, the good news is I will be moving shortly to a bigger town where there is an aikido club who does cater for the beginners - so I hope to be on the mat again real soon!!!
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2004, 01:09 PM   #5
jducusin
 
jducusin's Avatar
Dojo: Open Sky Aikikai (formerly the North Winnipeg Aikikai)
Location: Winterpeg, Manisnowba
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 144
Canada
Offline
From what I've seen thus far, a lot of folks seem to drop out due to a change in lifestyle and priorities --- many lead extremely busy lives outside of Aikido, and find themselves caught up with work, raising a family, school, and other commitments that simply take precedence over training.

Conflicting work schedules have played a role, as have whether or not a person's day job is stressful, and/or mentally or physically-exhausting. Some find that at the end of the day, they are just too worn out to come to class (as was the case with one new student in our dojo who recently dropped out, and is continually the case with my husband, who has very sporadic attendance due to the stress and constant travel demands of his job).

I would have to add to what Maresa said and even beg to differ slightly regarding the factors that retain students over the long run. I also believe that the level of support and quality of teaching given by the instructor are just as or even more important, as Andrew alluded to (for example, most of my very first Sensei's new students left because he mumbled a lot and was very inarticulate, which made things more difficult to learn). While I agree that dojo camaraderie certainly helps some people feel more comfortable in a new environment, when it comes to the long-haul it ultimately falls upon an individual's own determination and persistence to keep their interest in training in Aikido going.

This is the kind of individual who, once they find a dojo with a quality instructor, will continue to train for years to come regardless of whether or not they have many Sempais, or whether or not the members socialize outside the dojo. Most of the people I've met who have stuck with Aikido over many years have done so out of their own self-motivation --- they have trained on their own when no dojo was available, taught themselves when they had no Sensei, and have continued to train in spite of chronic injury and health problems --- all out of their own love for the art.

Open Sky Aikikai - http://www.winnipegaikido.com
"Life is growth. If we stop growing, technically and spiritually, we are as good as dead." - Morihei Ueshiba
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2004, 02:56 PM   #6
indomaresa
Dojo: Aiki Kenkyukai
Location: Indonesia
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 176
Offline
jamie, i couldn't agree with you more. A person's character is the ultimate defining factor.

however, when I answered this post I realized that personal problems from outside of the dojo is too numerous and absolutely an unpredictable factor. i.e: lifestyle, time, religion, tradition, etc. They're more like natural disasters to a good aikidoka. Inavoidable, and unexpected. Even the most die-hard fan of aikido will have trouble training if his/her job brought them to the... say kalahari desert.

The issue john mentioned here is how to maintain a good attendance rate and growth record.

And because there are some dojos with really bad senseis, yet teeming with students I decided to give John's question some more thought than usual. I also only mentioned factors that can be noticed and improved by the dojo. i.e: regular sempais, variety training, less obnoxious sempais and more interactions outside the dojo.

The quality of teaching is a very powerful factor to maintain a student's attendance, but in my experience there are some problems 'inside' the dojo that can cause even the most dedicated person to stop training. The sempais themselves.

When sempai - kohai interactions extends outside the dojo, we can expect to notice a problem before it erupts. A certain person in my dojo once caused many juniors to leave the dojo because of his overbearing attitude.



Finally, I think there are ways to help a person on his/her aikido journey. Such as being there for them.

The road is long...
The path is steep...
So hire a guide to show you the shortcuts
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2004, 08:42 PM   #7
Jeanne Shepard
 
Jeanne Shepard's Avatar
Dojo: Puget Sound Aikikai
Location: Seattle
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 351
Offline
You mean there aren't dojos in Outer Mongolia?

I was looking at the phone message list by the phone at the dojo one night, and there was a message from a beginner who called to say he was quiting, "I can't take the tumbling." Ukemi is one of the most daunting tasks in Aikido, and beginners need extra help and encouragement. Some people are very sensitive to the spinning and rolling too, (myself included) and need to be told over and over that it gets better.

Jeanne
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2004, 04:24 AM   #8
erikmenzel
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
erikmenzel's Avatar
Dojo: Aikidojo Leiderdorp
Location: Leiden
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 530
Netherlands
Offline
How about my little ripple in the pont by asking why we should want to prevent drop outs in the first place?

Erik Jurrien Menzel
kokoro o makuru taisanmen ni hirake
Personal:www.kuipers-menzel.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2004, 08:09 AM   #9
L. Camejo
 
L. Camejo's Avatar
Dojo: Ontario Martial Arts
Location: Mississauga, Ontario
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,423
Canada
Offline
Erik has a point to an extent. I have found that a lot of folks who drop out tend to be looking for something that Aikido does not offer them, e.g. wanting to go out and be able to kick (and I mean Kick) someone's butt after a couple of sessions, or wanting to flip, fly and throw "Chi" like in a bad kung fu movie.

I have had people who left because they WANTED to injure, hurt and maim their attacker. Those who stayed changed that mindset over time, those who did not want to change left.

It's all good in my book. Personally I think there are particular character types that can stick with the training and it comes from a burning inner desire to understand something about themself through Aikido.

Just my 2 cents.

L.C.

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
http://www.tntaikido.org
http://www.mushinkan.ca
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2004, 11:24 AM   #10
SeiserL
 
SeiserL's Avatar
Dojo: Roswell Budokan, Kyushinkan Dojo, Aikido World Alliance
Location: Roswell, GA USA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,715
United_States
Offline
IMHO, drop out is natural and not necessarily something that should be prevented.

OTHO, I think that drop out rates increase when the expectations of the new student do not match the reality of the school. People think it will be fast and easy, and it isn't. They think they will learn one thing based on the media and are learning something else. Some come for the spitituality and learn to fight. Others come to fight and are confronted with spirituality. Perhaps better education and selection of beginners would make for a better match.

I also agree that the personality of the Sensei and Sempais make for a better welcome, feeling connected and belonging, and continued involvement. Part of this is regular feedback that they are improving and enjoying the actual process/training itself.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2004, 03:03 PM   #11
MaryKaye
Dojo: Seattle Ki Society
Location: Seattle
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 522
Offline
Pretty often there are stories along the lines of "I tried one dojo and couldn't stick to it, went to another and now I can't get enough." I think these are the kind of dropouts one might work on preventing, whereas "I tried it and it's not for me" dropouts are a natural process that just needs to happen.

In my limited experience, there seems to be a barrier early on, around the time you have to learn forward rolls and become confident with falling. A lot of people get discouraged here and give up. My dojo is experimenting with having only brief Intro classes and then putting everyone in together, but I think we'll have to watch out that beginners get enough rolling coaching and are not expected to just "pick it up as they go." Some will, but many won't and will quit instead. Some of those people would probably make great aikidoka once they got past the initial hurdle. (We have a rather hard floor, and I can vouch from experience that learning to roll on it was not easy. It took me five months and a lot of bruises.)

There's another barrier somewhat later that I don't know as much about. In my limited experience we have plenty of people testing for 5th kyu and a sharp dropoff above that. Peoples' lives intervene, or they just seem to drift away.

I encountered one (non-aikido) group that made each person who joined promise not to leave without explaining why--either in person or via a note. This would be incredibly useful feedback for a dojo, I think. (The group I'm thinking of didn't always get it to work themselves: several people just vanished. Perhaps they started out thinking "I'm not quitting, just missing a class today" and never really caught the moment that they quit. Eventually it was a month or two later, and they were embarrassed and didn't want to deal with it.)

Mary Kaye
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2004, 07:12 PM   #12
Jeanne Shepard
 
Jeanne Shepard's Avatar
Dojo: Puget Sound Aikikai
Location: Seattle
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 351
Offline
There's another barrier somewhat later that I don't know as much about. In my limited experience we have plenty of people testing for 5th kyu and a sharp dropoff above that. Peoples' lives intervene, or they just seem to drift away.

Mary Kaye[/quote]
In other words, those of us who find alot of time to do Aikido DONT have lives!

Jeanne
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2004, 09:07 AM   #13
Amendes
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 130
Offline
ATTENTION! ATTENTION! ATTENTION!

I can't stress that enough.

When someone is new they need Attention!

And they need positive reinforcment.

When I was starting out the seniors gave me very much attention. And they never ever told me I was doing wrong. I always felt improtant at my dojo. And I always wondered why.

Now that I am helping teach I know why I felt good. Because we strive to make sure there is absolutly no negative energy given by teaching. When we see something being done incorrectly we focus on what is right.

Example, someone does ikkyo but positions the wrist wrong.

Negative (inccorrect) Solution: Thats wrong, you need to position the wrist higher then the elbow and the eblow higer then the shoulder. If you do it that way it will never work and he will escape.

Postivie Solution: "That was relly good, I love how you take that right away without hesitating, and I love how you enter off that center line. I have just one suggestion that will make it even better. When you finish keep the elbow higher then the shoulder and the wrist higher then the elbow, then you will find the lock more effective."

Also adding a little touch on the shoulder or something of the matter also makes a difference.

And Greeting as many students before class with a smile, as well as thanking them for training with you off the mats makes a big difference.

People want attention, and they want positive attention.

Also I know this is getting long but I experience one episode the other night worth mentioning. I was helping a begining do iriminage, and she was getting frustrated with herself when she was doing good.

She said to me "Oh that was wrong" and she did it a few times. After the thrid time I said.

"At the end stop and reflect on what you just did, this is what we call Zanshin, stay for a few seconds and think of it, and don't think of what you did wrong, but think of what you liked."

She replied "I like that"

And I swear her technique was much more flowing and she seemed much happyer after that."

I hope someone reads this and takes my advice, any comments are appreciated. Thanks.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2004, 10:52 AM   #14
indomaresa
Dojo: Aiki Kenkyukai
Location: Indonesia
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 176
Offline
Hi andrew,

Isn't zanshin = awareness? To be aware? ..?

there are many ways to be encouraging and build a beginner's confidence, what you mentioned is one of it.

Although I agree that we need to pay attention to the juniors, I really don't like to coddle them. Being there for them is one thing, but TOO much attention and praise can cause other future problems. ( inflating their ego, excessive dependancy, etc ). A balanced praise and critic of their performance should do it.

If I were to notice flaws during training I'd prefer to be blunt and say their techniques are weak, or flawed instead of letting them go with the impression that their techniques can work in real life.

Minor discussions after training should be able to fix technical problems.

The road is long...
The path is steep...
So hire a guide to show you the shortcuts
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2004, 11:17 AM   #15
Amendes
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 130
Offline
This is why we seperate our beginer classes from our intermediate and our advanced classes.

Don't get me wrong, we never over inflate their egos.

I am referring to how one must react around someone who is not feeling 100%, thesse ones need the attention. The ones that have the notion that they are doing everything wrong, or they are not welcome. And trust me sometime after I left beginer and went to intermediate class I started to feel this.

I suppose this was becuase of that difference.

Now in our advanced classes I realize how important my influence as a senior student is on other ranks.

As for Zanshin...

I beleive the literal translation of Zanshin is "Moment of Reflection" And when you are refelcting upon your technique you are being aware of what you have done. We have this after all katas, and I try to implement it after all my techniques.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2004, 11:45 AM   #16
Bronson
 
Bronson's Avatar
Dojo: Seiwa Dojo and Southside Dojo
Location: Battle Creek & Kalamazoo, MI
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,677
Offline
Andrew's way:

I really like the attitude you have of making sure the beginners get the attention and positive reinforcement they need to keep progressing. One thing you may want to consider changing though is your literal translation of zanshin. From the AikiWeb aikido vocabulary list we find that:
Quote:
Zanshin Lit. "remaining mind/heart." Even after an aikido technique has been completed, one should remain in a balanced and aware state. ZANSHIN thus connotes "following through" in a technique, as well as preservation of one's awareness so that one is prepared to respond to additional attacks.
From Jim Breen's Japanese-English Dictionary Server we find zanshin defined as:
Quote:
(n)follow-through
.

Maresa's way:
Quote:
I beleive the literal translation of Zanshin is "Moment of Reflection"
That's not quite right. The literal translation is remaining mind.



Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2004, 01:15 PM   #17
Amendes
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 130
Offline
Thank you very much.

I learn something new everyday.

:-P

I always though Heart and Mind was Kokoro

I think maybe the termonology sheets I studied are incorrect and I will question Zanshin to "remaining mind."

Although preservation of one's awareness and follwoing through was also something I included as part of zanshin.

I am by no means an expert, and though I am in the advanced class I consider myself a beginer, for I have along way to go.

One must always keep Shoshin. (Beginers mind)

While

Cheerio, and thank you very much,

I must get back to work
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2004, 03:28 PM   #18
Nick P.
 
Nick P.'s Avatar
Dojo: Sukagawa Aikido Club of Montreal
Location: Montreal
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 639
Offline
Maybe it's just me, but even the most positive reinforcement cannot keep some people from leaving. I often ask myself the same question John does.

Maybe it's the club or the people in it; maybe the person isn't "ready" for Aikido, or Aikido is not ready for them. So many variables, and few of them can we actually influence.

Lead by example, follow other's examples, train with commitment and compassion...who would not want to be around that no matter the art?

  Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2004, 09:02 PM   #19
Suzanne Cooper
Dojo: Retsushinkan Dojo/Alabama
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 52
Offline
Ok, I'm ready to throw this out. I'm throwing things out tonight [back, knees... ].

Those of us who fell head over heels in love with aikido, but who haven't been really physically active since the final days of ballet at the unversity (just my example--it could be any activity), need to be gently reminded to pace ourselves, even if we don't want to.

At first, I would go at it with such vim and vigor (I love that phrase!) that I ended up missing several days of work when I woke up the day after class and couldn't move!

Tonight, for example, I got good advice on the exact inspiration and expiration--breathing--that should accompany the particular technique we were working on. What a difference! What a sensei who spotted what I needed! (And it seemed to help my pacing.)

And, I agree that beginners need attention. Don't worry that the attention will somehow keep people involved who really don't have an interest. They will drift away and find something else in spite of the attention.

And, I agree that scornful correction is not good. I'm not a long-timer, but somehow I can't image scorn being tolerated at my dojo.

And we have so many interested people, they have to turn them away from the beginner classes.

I got guts, yes I do. I do aikido--do YOU?
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2004, 12:19 PM   #20
jgrowney
Dojo: Rochester New York Aikido Club
Location: Rochester, NY
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 44
Offline
Good comments by all. I asked a similar question on Aikido Journal pertaining to motivation. Got some very interesting answers.

http://143.207.8.139/cgi-bin/ubb/ult...c&f=9&t=002016

I think beginners need to be lead towards some sort of contemplation regarding their personal reasons and thier real purpose for training. Some line of questioning about what they hope to get out of your aikido training would go a long way.

They need to be lead enough to find "their path" within the broader path of aikido. Then they own it and it becomes their process.

Jim

Jim Growney
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2004, 05:52 PM   #21
Doka
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 169
Offline
Not everyone is a Martial Artist!

If you are - Welcome!

If not - Good Bye!



2c
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2004, 04:42 AM   #22
erikmenzel
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
erikmenzel's Avatar
Dojo: Aikidojo Leiderdorp
Location: Leiden
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 530
Netherlands
Offline
Quote:
Mark Dobro (Doka) wrote:
Not everyone is a Martial Artist!

If you are - Welcome!

If not - Good Bye!
Probably Not everyone is a maniac would be a more appropriate description

Erik Jurrien Menzel
kokoro o makuru taisanmen ni hirake
Personal:www.kuipers-menzel.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2004, 06:57 AM   #23
paw
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 768
Offline
A new year brings about all sorts of new faces to the local commercial gyms. FWIW, I doubt the retention rate of a local gym is any better than the retention rate of a local aikido dojo. Granted, more folks join the local gym than the local dojo, but percentage wise, it seems about the same based on my unscientific observations.

Lynn mentioned expectations previously, and that's one thing I feel that other arts tend to do better about than aikido dojo. What I mean is this: If someone were to ask me about the local karate dojos, I could point out the one that focuses on sport tournaments, or the one that has a history of producing great fighters (in the ring or on the street), or the one that is known for teaching all things karate (history), or the one that is known for their excellent character and philosophical development, or, well, you get the picture.....and the catch is, I've never stepped onto a mat for karate, ever.

In contrast, aikido dojo don't tend to separate themselves into little segments like that. The good news is, of course, everyone gets a little bit of everything....on the flip side, people that are only interested in one thing tend to leave.

As Mark noted, not everyone wants to be a martial artist. Of the martial artists, not everyone wants to be an aikidoist. I don't see anything wrong with that.

Regards,

Paul
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2004, 08:54 AM   #24
indomaresa
Dojo: Aiki Kenkyukai
Location: Indonesia
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 176
Offline
too bad, i was hoping someday aikido will grow to the point that everyone MUST choose between hard labor or studying aikido.

Drop-outs from the dojo will hunted and gunned down with extreme prejudice, or imprisoned for life (where they spend their remaining days training aikido anyway)

ahh... what a vision..

The road is long...
The path is steep...
So hire a guide to show you the shortcuts
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2004, 03:35 PM   #25
Zulk
Location: USA
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 4
Offline
How about setting orientation periods (5 to 8 meetings of 1 hour each should do it) for the new beginners? I mean instead of dividing the dojo into advance and beginner classes, assign a number of capable sempais to guide the new student on the importance of ukemi, stretching and most importantly proper manner in dojo.

I once attend a Hapkido dojo in US and they effectively did this...even carried it further into militaristic disipline...

After 5 meetings the result will show up...the one who truly want to learn aikido and the one who do not.

Sincerely,

Zulk
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How do you prevent knee injuries? iokuyama General 43 04-15-2007 05:21 PM
Black outs Gabriella Wrigholm Testing 9 03-16-2006 09:38 AM
Problem with heart that may prevent me Anonymous Training 6 11-10-2004 07:57 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:14 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate