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Old 01-21-2004, 11:40 PM   #1
Bronson
 
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Dojo: Seiwa Dojo and Southside Dojo
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hakama knot?

Howdy all,

Does anybody know if the knot used when the hakama is folded has any special significance (like the pleats are supposed to) or is it just a nice way to keep the himo from dangling all over

Thanks,

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
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Old 01-22-2004, 03:20 PM   #2
morex
 
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I heard Sensei once saying that the knot on your hakama reflects how you are in life. If you have a poorly made knot, odds are your life is a mess...

Of course I have a terrible knot all the time! LOL

Morex
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Old 01-22-2004, 03:50 PM   #3
Kent Enfield
 
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That knot has the same significance as the pleats: none. It just looks nice and keeps everything tidy.

Kentokuseisei
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Old 01-22-2004, 05:45 PM   #4
Misogi-no-Gyo
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Quote:
Kent Enfield wrote:
That knot has the same significance as the pleats: none. It just looks nice and keeps everything tidy.
Kent, if I may. What you say is not exactly true at all. The pleats certainly have a documented meaning in many circles. Of course, this may even be different from circle to circle (art to art, country to country, etc.) As far as the knot on the belt, I have heard several things from students who have passed through my dojo. However, I have not had any direct training or information from my own teachers on this. I am sure that someone like Fred Little, many of the more well-known tamashigiri stylists a la Mr. Williams, and especially many practitioners of Koryu arts (Mr. Amdur please chime in, if appropriate) would have their own information which may vary widely.

So, as to say that there is no meaning, I am sure this is far from accurate. To say that there is one "accepted" meaning, well you know what they say, ask any two Israelis directions and get at least four or five answers, each more correct than the last..." Oh - that would be from my own experiences in the Middle East. Since that was during the war in Lebanon, things may have gotten worse since then...

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Old 01-22-2004, 11:56 PM   #5
Bronson
 
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Thanks for the replies.

So far my searching has led me to the same answer Kent gave. Oh and I'm talking about the knot used when it's folded not when it's worn. I've been able to find loads of info on the supposed meanings of the pleats but not one thing on any meaning associated with the knot.

Thanks,

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
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Old 01-23-2004, 02:32 AM   #6
JJF
 
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Quote:
Bronson Diffin (Bronson) wrote:
.... Oh and I'm talking about the knot used when it's folded not when it's worn.
I think what Morex says applies to this knot as well...

I use a method somewhat like the one described here:

http://astro.temple.edu/~jmorales/we...do/hafold.html

- Jørgen Jakob Friis

Inspiration - Aspiration - Perspiration
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Old 01-26-2004, 06:40 PM   #7
sresell
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The name for the knot is "Dragonfly knot" or "Tonbo Musubi" in Japanese.

I've been told that another word for "tonbo" was "katsumushi", meaning the invincible insect, hence it was a favorite symbol of strength amongst the bushi.

I also read on Bugei Tradings website that "the Dragonfly held a special significance to the Samurai. Their seemingly tireless movement reflected the Samurai's desire to give tireless service to his feudal Lord".

FWIW.

Steven Resell
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Old 01-27-2004, 07:19 AM   #8
vanstretch
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Is the knot "our" beltbuckle? like rodeo cowboys or spanish cultural garb? I call mine the "col.sanders", just look at any kfc bucket and note the similarities from the colonels tie.
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Old 01-27-2004, 07:28 AM   #9
Charlie Huff
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For what it's worth, I've been shown 5 different ways of folding a hakama and tying that final knot -- 3 different methods from Aikido teachers, 1 from a Kendo teacher, and 1 from a Kyudo teacher.

I think the only significance in this knot is who you learned it from.

We have met the enemy and he is us.
-- Pogo
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