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Old 02-18-2004, 06:44 PM   #26
Peter Goldsbury
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Yesterday I attended a 2-hour meeting, during which a job applicant was interviewed. Everybody was quite formal and the word 'sensei' must have been used at least 100 times. No other titles were used and there was no particular significance in the title. In other words, I did not use the title because of a particular relationship with any of the participants in the meeting.

Thus, I think the use here is somewhat different from that, for example, in Natsume Soseki's novel "Kokoro". Here the title is used of a particular person and this is close to how I have heard the term used in the aikido world, where a particular person is "my Sensei". Shihan does not have this meaning or connotation.

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Old 02-19-2004, 03:04 AM   #27
darin
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Quote:
Peter Rehse (PeterR) wrote:
Menkyo means certificate and my closet is full of them. Some of them were awarded for passing various Kyu and Dan grades in Aikido.

If you are talking about something similar to the system used by Daito Ryu why bother. The only real difference is the number of divisions and that is really only within the kyu grades.
Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't "Menkyo" mean license? Like untenmenkyo (drivers license). I think the word for certificate is ninteisho.
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Old 02-19-2004, 03:20 AM   #28
PeterR
 
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Quote:
Darin Hyde (darin) wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't "Menkyo" mean license? Like untenmenkyo (drivers license). I think the word for certificate is ninteisho.
You know I'm not sure. First time I heard menkyo outside Budo discussions was when I was pulled over. I have since heard it a number of times where license just doesn't seem right. This includes both work and if my memory serves me dojo.

Any othe language persons want to chime in and call me a fool Nows your chance.

Dictionary lists certificate but usage is not clear.

Last edited by PeterR : 02-19-2004 at 03:28 AM.

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Old 02-19-2004, 05:40 AM   #29
darin
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Quote:
Peter Rehse (PeterR) wrote:
You know I'm not sure. First time I heard menkyo outside Budo discussions was when I was pulled over. I have since heard it a number of times where license just doesn't seem right. This includes both work and if my memory serves me dojo.

Any othe language persons want to chime in and call me a fool Nows your chance.

Dictionary lists certificate but usage is not clear.
I am not sure too. That's why I asked. Just curious about the meaning. I am sure the word "menkyo" can be used in many situations but for its actual meaning I always thought of "menkyo" or "menkyoshou" as meaning license or permit. "shoumeisho" and "ninteisho" refer to the actual physical documents (certificate) ie. paper or plastic card etc. not the title.

Maybe Peter Goldsbury or Jun can help us out here.
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Old 02-19-2004, 05:51 AM   #30
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Didn't O'Sensei issue a menkyo to Suenaka Sensei (Wadokai)?

A real man does not think of victory or defeat. He plunges recklessly towards an irrational death. By doing this, you will awaken from your dreams.
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Old 02-19-2004, 06:19 AM   #31
Peter Goldsbury
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Menkyo (--Ƌ--) has several meanings: permission or licence to do something (--Ƌ--); a licence (--Ƌ-- = menkyo-shou, --Ƌ-- = menkyo-jou); a certificate (-- = shoumei-sho); a permit (-- = kyoka-sho); charter ("-- = tokkyo-jou). There is a separate entry for menkyo-kaiden (--Ƌ--F"`), which means full proficiency (in an art).

I am at home and the only dictionary I have is the new 5th edition of Kenkyusha's Japanese-English dictionary. If you want the full works, with earliest mention, quotations etc, you will need to wait till I have time to look at the multi-volume Kokugo Daijiten.

Best regards,

P A Goldsbury
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